Etherial Cat

San Pedro is a wonderful plant medicine for healing. Should be added to all advices regarding using substance for healing. So I'm adding this there as well.

Great list of principles. This match my experience and puts it to words brilliantly.

It's an interesting thread for sure. Ultimately, I want to ask, what is pick-up? I think there was a few posts which were extremely interesting asking "how pick-up overlaps with personal development"? And this is spot on in my opinion. Is pick-up "the development line" of masculine dating self-help? Or is it something else overlapping with it? The way I see it is that pick-up reminds me of the relation alchemy versus real chemistry. It warrants some results, but it doesn't know exactly why. And a lot of it's theory appear to me as deadly wrong on a day-to-day basis when I read men talk about male/female attraction. Pick-up surely overlaps with what creates female attraction, but you don't need to know pick-up to be attractive. And that's because it is basically a collection of great practices observed in those who have a high degree of development in the areas tied to human desirability. And then what it tries to do is to generalize it, so men can emulate it and create results for themselves thanks to these tricks. But it's really also intertwined with a lot of unnecessary additions derived by masculine biases and projections. And this creates a lot of misconception about female desire for men. Especially because the results are also datas collected within a special social cultural context, at a certain point in time, through peculiar collective traumas etc. What bugs me a lot about this forum and the fact that a lot of time women in here a told that "you shouldn't ask women what they find attractive" is that it prevents women from correcting these misconception and more importantly it is a a self-deception mechanism from men to ignore the problems coming from pick-up. And I'm not going to sugar-coat it, but I think that the reason why they do it is because obviously because seduction in general is a nest for devilry. Which include their own way of using other human for self-gratification, consciously or unconsciously and they don't want to be confronted about it. Seduction is all about luring an object of desire your way as opposed as genuinely caring about an individual's welfare as well (which is love) and pick-up is generally used as the ultimate seduction tool towards getting the hottest girl your way. In Christianity, the devil notoriously lure humans by giving them what they think they want, not caring about the truthfulness and righteousness of it on a longer cause and effect frame. God on the other hand, cares about the ecology and welfare of everyone. And I think it makes up for a great parallel on why pick-up comes up as unconscious and bugging because in 95% of the case, the knowledge gathered from it is used as a selfish seduction tool to extract from woman what a man wants from them. And particularly with pick-up culture, there is a clear emphasis on chasing vagina and treating women as objects towards a mean (sex) instead of focusing on finding a human being that correspond your real needs holistically. In that way, pick-up (as an umbrella term) can also absolutely dehumanizing towards female and it's not surprising that so much controversy and debate rise-up on a high consciousness self-help forum with these underlying dynamics. Because at the end of the day, if it leads to this type of interaction, it is a lose-lose. Also, no conscious/developed woman will be attracted to a man resorting to this dynamic. The moment she sees that, it acts as a red flag. She understands that a man is not totally developed on the real attraction development line but is faking its attractive qualities toward gullible women and has drifted away from the real thing. She sees him as an "alchemist" praying on easy targets and that's adding up to the unattractiveness of the situation. But of course, most of the time the men are not aware of that fact and think the average women are normal while the conscious woman is deluded and a pain in the ass. But a developed man would be better off with a developed woman. Because relationship between men and female are not summarized to merely getting some sex. Sex is like 15-20% of a relationship at most.

Yes of course. Okay. No problem Good luck with everything!

Maybe there is also an element of shame due to the fact that by writing we are disclosing a part of ourself. And of course, very often we perceive ourself as unacceptable to be seen. We keep on protecting a thick private sphere and we have fear of intimacy because we are afraid of rejection in daily life. And getting tagged as "unlovable". Our authenticity has always been repressed in order to fit within a mold. Being authentic and drifting from the mold feels therefore feels bad to us. That is very interesting. Thanks for the info. It's great food for contemplation and I can relate to it. I had noticed that it was a question of self-image and contradiction between the idea you've got of yourself and the new elements you see. Perhaps a lot of the horror we feel is the gap between what we think we are and what we appear factually to be. The ignorance and lack of awareness tells us how "wrong" we are even in our knowledge of our egoic self. We see how limited our self-image is, really. From inside, the ego has the feeling to be always right. Its perceptions and narratives are truth to it. I think feeling cringe also comes more often to those who have a negative self-image by default. Often these people have lacked validation and a secure attachment from their caretakers. Or they grew up in an environment where they have been told a lot that what they were doing is not correct. It makes one particularly anxious about how one appear. And they constantly look back at how they are doing. And you've got a phenomenon of a by default negative self-image, judging itself from an external vantage point. The negative self-image becomes then judge and the party.

@StarStruck ??? I'm mind blown. Congratulation on your healing journey. I think that once you'll have healed most of your trauma with the Feminine things are going to get much easier for you, regarding dating/pick up. -- Yes. This type of stuff is always about our own relationship with the in Feminine/Masculine throughout our formative years and subsequently the adult ones. 100% on point . -- Since you are living in the Netherlands- you could also investigate on San Pedro/ Ayahuasca for healing since you were already interested in psychadelics. San Pedro can be brewed quite easily and I think it is even legal to consume in this country. I would also suggest you to read Erich Fromm, the Art of Loving (available as audiobook- even on Youtube), as well as content by Gabor Matè on authenticity vs attachment to get a better grasp at where it might have gone wrong for you.

Really? Who does not deserve love, in your opinion? All humans should be loved. Each time you meet one, ideally you should treat them to the best of your current abilities. Of course, if someone is messing up actively with your boundaries or is being aggressive you should be careful and not want them anything near you. But it doesn't mean that you do not care for them and their well being overall.

By doing this type of stuff you're just sending a clear signal that she was right to ditch you. You've got to be loving towards women on a constant basis to be a catch. Here, you're showing a dark part of yourself.

Your title is perfect. Also, I never see any "cringe" worthy displays from you. You should believe more in yourself and your choices. Your self-image doesn't reflect accurately how gifted you are and easy to appreciate.

You work on it by gathering resources on the topic, and studying it extensively. You find some mentors and try to see how they do it and "absorb" their pattern, way of thinking etc... And then you also meditate on the subject of Love as a whole. You contemplate it. You try to practice it... until it becomes a part of you.

It reminds me of a stage Green version of priest doing disgusting things within the Church. People who identify as being "good" have potentially a huge shadow.

What you are after is not her. You are looking for your own ability to love yourself.... Her rejection is painful because you've delegated her the power to judge of your own worth. But YOU did that. She's a proxy in your mind and you want her love so you can love yourself back. But the trick is... you don't need her for that. The real problem is that you don't manage to directly love yourself. Hope this helps?

I'm loving this. And I've also seen my long laundry list of expectations reduced to nothing in front of the evidence.

Yes, definitely.

Oh gosh. Sounds like this one made it to the list because of a previous bad experience.

You've got to learn how to Love Yourself @StarStruck. It's always down to that... You will be your biggest provider and then the world will reflect that energy. I'm sending you all my compassion. You indeed seems to be very sad and broken hearted. It's great that you are working with Teal Swan. Check also Emerald's channel for working with your emotion and healing your relationship with the Feminine. Leo's video on Self-Love is also really great. I'm sorry for your pain, but it seems like this is exactly what you needed. You need this healing. Looking in this direction will give you far better results than if your pick up journey had gone smoothly so far. Courage!

It's "training". If it were easy, everyone would be there... Leo said it all.... I don't mean to scare you but.. this will be your problem until the ego is transcended. And in maaaaaaany life areas. Shifting from a survival oriented perspective to an abundance based perspective is a big chunk of Consciousness work. By accepting the situation. You're pretty much pushed into the water pool to swim and reach the other side. There is nothing good in this water for you except for the challenge itself. Kicking, screaming, complaining or asking us for help on the forum will not change anything , unfortunately. You just got to accept that you won't get "laid" by this girl in this circumstances now. She's exerting her free will, and you're left behind. You've got to accept that this is what is, surrender and let go of her. Anything else will be a waste of your energy. Everyone has been suffering hell because au being attracted to another being (in fact many other beings) and facing some limitations at some point. The suffering is just part of the dance. It is necessary to gain experience. You can't shelter yourself from it. And it is what makes you good at "relationships" eventually. See yourself as a Pokemon gaining XP points.

Yes, absolutely . This has been my experience so far.

Mindfulness meditation is of serious help not to get totally sucked on by some excessive loathing and negative thoughts once a relationship gets busted. And anything that is rising your awareness and helps you change your perspective is the direction you want to go. The issue is that "you" are projecting your own sense of lack on "them" . So you need to refocus your energy on yourself as "you" are the origin of the problem. When I get upset and i'm overtaken by emotions, I try to observe them, feel them, see their root cause and use them as a sort of compass. I know I can't solve my psychology overnight, but I take "notes" and investigate. Also, knowing how to move on with your life, to "let go" of someone gracefully is a quality that makes one attractive. To me, keeping this in sight helps. It's almost like nature shows us the way.

Yes. I am aware of this. I tried to convey this element by saying "you as a man". Initially, I had written "as a man" solely but thought that it was not correct. The generalization didn't feel right, especially on this forum since a lot of men are showing different colors and I'm aware of the diversity/spectrum. But there are still some constant within the group that can be found. Indeed. We are all in perpetual motions. Lol yes, it's very context dependent. The world "slut" is often used in order to strip women of their dignity and respect in public. It's slander. And the slander comes with a lot of potential nuisance and danger for the girl holding this reputation as it's going to be hard to be seen as proper once "tagged" with it, I think. So here people really get mad. In your context, from her perspective it's more containment via masculine energy through telling her she's being naughty I think. By doing this you are both exerting aggression, appreciation and control. And she probably likes being in her sexual power in a non-threatening way for you if she's into being dominated. A slut is a woman who offers her body for sex and seemingly enjoys it. I think we all have at least this aspect of the "slut". But there is no positive word to describe a woman who greatly enjoys having sex with a man so that one is maybe the closest... It's absence is tied to the whole Madonna-Whore complex men have, I think. Women weaponize their sexual power more. Nature has made it so that women hold more power on male sexually. Men are by default more subject to lust than we are, it's biological. That detachment holds a lot of power. But men in general hold much more power than we do in society and abuse it greatly. To the point that a lot of women feel the need to resort to manipulation and weaponize it for survival. Nobody manipulates out of strength. My opinion is that weaponized sex is sad. It goes against a woman's Truth and Love. It's soulless. And also, there is an odd encouragement for this behavior by trapping women into object of sexual desire all over the place by men. So men also put a lot of pressure and expectation on women for how they should behave sexually. But the sexual power is ours. And that's why there is so much attempt for control.

I find your journal quite informative. It's your journey after all, and the perspective given is great food for thought. It let me rather pensive on how you as a man perceive sex or experiment desire. I think calling women sluts and them enjoying it come from the fact that a woman owning her sexual energy is frowned upon by patriarchy. And that's because it is a source of great power, indirectly. The average guy is obsessed with sex and if a woman is too good at it, it's the end of his self-control. Being called a slut is the contained version of it, when the men holds the power but acknowledge her sexuality and the fact that she enjoys it. In a non-threatening way for her.

Yes. There are right reason to be wary of someone's sexual past, as it can have ripple in the present moment. But it all depends on context. It's not uncommon for people to change. It would be silly to miss on great matches because of being severe with such standards. Maybe an underlying reason is that you wish for someone to have a special relationship with you mostly and not with tons of other people?

I really like this video. So If I had to pick up only one, I'd chose it This one gave me a a natural provisory enlightenment. So I'm particularly fond of it. -- But generally speaking, I would say that his portfolio of video is of such quality that they almost all deserve to be watched. At least the most recent ones (up to 3-4 years ago). The ones which are worth skipping are those that were obviously done in a different era and have too much Orange in it. Yes. Yourself. Follow your inner Guru. Nowadays, I look for spiritual teachers who resonate especially with me and bring out my own knowledge. The more I find them beautiful, the more I know that their style of teaching has a piece of who I am under the veil of ego... In my case, I resonate with a triumvirate of Love, Truth and Consciousness. And at the specific moment, I have a strong focus on actuality, a lot of my consciousness work is directed at the now itself. So you won't be surprised if I tell you that my favorite spiritual teacher is Eckhart Tolle (and he has always been anyway- his teachings are simple but effective). But literally, everyone is my teacher. I am not attached to one of them in particular. I diversify my sources through space, time and medium. That said, youtube is certainely very convenient. And there I like the videos made by Rupert Spira, Adyashanti, Francis Lucille, Marianne Wiliamson, Tara Brach, Matt Kahn, etc. I like the fact that they have a lot of video on common contemporary issues. So you've got a good pool of Q&A coming from them. And lately, I have also started listening to Nahm's videos.

I didn't write this answer to get in an argument with you.... And this is not some "nitpicking". There is a recurring pattern of certain male holding this kind of believes and you obviously have it as well. So this is not just a little detail. Highlighting this contradiction was not designed to harm you nor getting you defensive but to help you see this double standard and maybe look into it. That said, it's not going to happen if you brush it off.

So labeling someone a beta male is insulting, but talking about women being ran on is okay?