SoonHei

@Jack Walter Leon @Nahm @Nahm I doesn't let me delete the tag for nahm in the post (using my phone, maybe some limitation there... Anyways) Jack, yes it literally means You and I are the same. 100% the same. Just wearing a different mask. Like the pages of a book. They all have different font/text on each page. But the blank white page it is on, are all the same. (All ONE. unlike a standard book, there is no separation when it comes to the pages of the book of Reality) And that state you talk about which you had, and then it went away... That happens on it's own. I myself wasnt aware of any of this until i had a similar experience. Also a note, "trying to get" that state of mind would bring it about. Also notice how that means Jack Leon is the one searching for that state. When we have just talked about above that Jack can never find the truth. Only the Absolute can. Also, trying implies there is someone making the effort but we already know, there is no Jack Leon. Simply rest back as awareness. Be aware of the coming and going.

@Nahm @Nahm i see Nahm seal of approval Thanks. Blessings. Pardon for this egoic response

Lol amen to that. Was watching some Osho videos and thats exactly what he says that some of his words might just trigger something inside someone

Sweet. Well said indeed. The little bit of direction that is understood is for the ego with the illusion of control ... As opposed to hearing "there's nothing to do" and then sitting down and doing nothing trap

@Antonius in the intellectual understanding that we are not the ego or the I... why do we then continue to make such statements (I myself do this also) <<<<< case in point! you see You must be on alert truly all the times! and pause to question each I / self referring thought... From you quote above: Who is the I that is currently going through the state of disentangling emptiness and form? (a story/concept) Who is the I who has yet to have the direct experience of that (another story/concept) THE Stepping back and watching HAPPENS NOW and whenever "you" do have the direct experience it will be when "you" finally step back and observe it. It's really like this... Going thru 5 stages and then arriving here or going thru 3 stages and then arriving here or realizing that there are no stages and you're already here wow. it's like I am talking to myself. Lock me up for this crime too! I do this all the time <<<< doing it again and yet aware of it... but not stepping back to watch this now. if i just allow right now to let myself write in the moment, I think what I (most of us also) tend to do is continue the story and track the progression. write down new ideas for ourselves and other and call it progress, when really the main teaching that there is nobody here learning or doing anything is one of the first things you hear in spirituality. YES YES! all the steps are inevitable often, but you can also try to outwit the process and see it for what it is NOW wow, this pushing the enlightenment ahead into the future is a very clever tactic by this ego... by any ego. amazing.

@ground i think he is talking beyond that. of course the words are the limitations. but yes, i agree with you... "Antonius" cannot have found nothingness. Antonius/the ego/character can NEVER find nothingness. the real self currently identifying with Antonius would have come into contact with itself briefly

@Jack Walter Leon there is no EGO - that's what is meant by no self. Self/EGO is a fictional character. It has an illusion of existing. There is only the REAL SELF / Consciousness / GOD / Absolute - so it can be said, that REAL SELF / Consciousness / GOD / Absolute is who 'becomes' enlightened or wakes up to this truth. YOU are REAL SELF / Consciousness / GOD / Absolute. While living as and in the story of Jack Leon: Jack Leon will never awaken. YOU will awaken. This is because YOU are not Jack Leon - and yet YOU presently are (identified with) Jack Leon to show a little one-to-one so it kinda makes sense of how this JACK LEON and YOU can be superimposed yet be different... While living as and in the story of Forrest Gump: Forrest Gump will never awaken. TOM HANKS will awaken. This is because TOM HANKS is not Forrest Gump - and yet TOM HANKS presently is (playing the character of) Forrest Gump. the character (ego/ Jack Leon) never wakes up. The moment the awakening occurs, the reality is what is revealed and that reality = Jack Leon is just an idea/fiction/seemingly real character. also, in reality, all the characters are played by REAL SELF / Consciousness / GOD / Absolute. and not Tom Hanks of course so to kinda bring it a step closer... It's like for an author who writes a novel, it can be said that the entire world of that novel is created in the author's head and each character is the author in a way (an extension of the author) that's how reality is. all is a creation of REAL SELF / Consciousness / GOD / Absolute ' infinite mind . and we (individual egos) are living inside of that MIND as 1 out of the infinitely many characters

in my ever deepening understanding of the place where the absolute self "watches" from I get the analogy of staring down a well to be on point. All the Self is doing is staring down the well. Thoughts are always "seen" from above. The questioning thought is also the ego trying to dress up as the SELF and do the inquiry but again, because it appears deep within the well, the true self is watching from above the well and sees this too. this is a very nice little bit when it falls into place... i had a series of thoughts come up trying to overcome the previous thought with a higher authority but it was seen that all these thoughts are occurring at the same lower level and seen by absolute from up top of the well. with this, i was able to understand how the mind is used as a tool to be speaking from the point of the absolute true statements = statements which would be said if the absolute could speak directly. some true statements which came to mind were: 1. i am aware of this thought 2. i am the watcher of this thought 3. this thought appears in and as me 4. i am beyond the reach of the mind because i am the container for the mind 5. I AM (this one really was felt once i had that thought loop collapse briefly and it was directly seen. i just very still-ly AM. yes, these have human perspective and ideas of thoughts embedded in it, which the absolute is beyond all of that. but this is in terms of speaking as an enlightened being may speak to us.

@Serotoninluv wow. thank you for that. it was a nice read and helped illustrate and map it a little better for me. i try to do without mapping if i can help it, but it does deepen it for me, hence i ask... in the long run i am reminded the mapping will fall out and that's fine wow... so the journey from the AM-ness to the IS-ness it seems. both ultimately also will be transcended. though, IS-ness (concept) does seem more fundamental vs AM-ness (concept) i guess the concepts have varrying % of identification which goes with it... and ultimately the TRUTH as in your prior post where the IS-ness then turns to NOTHING-ness <3 thank you.

@Serotoninluv when you mention the experience of collapsing the observer... was that during a certain practice? or did it remain as a lasting experience for you even now? for me, there is a thought-process which takes place for that understanding to be seen again... but it did not collapse it for good for me. is it the same for you too? or does this particular point not have a lasting direct experience/understanding until other deeper realizations ?

perfect. absolutely spot on. @Serotoninluv that's precisely what i became aware of. i dont think i have the write words to express it as you do, but this seems perfect the "non-judgemental" awareness is a strong one. also the process of going from I AM AWARENESS to I AM to AM to IS to nothing <3 Thank you. mapping the process once it's seen makes it easier for me to get back to that place and at the same time, to the one unaware, this would just be so easily missed the fact that it cannot be pointed to becomes infinitely more clear as to way day by day. oh and yes, the tendency to talk about it and all is certainly the movement towards dual constructs which is also ok as long as one can be grounded in the AM-ness... #workInProgress for me.

@MTR first of all. Thanks for that. Never thought about those thoughts as such Especially a follow up you wrote about aiming for an Ego death Had to analyze how i also had projected this many times @Hellspeed wow. Thanks. Your addition at the end was great. That kinda takes this new perspective also full circle. I notice.how my ego did a few things after reading this post.. First was to do a quick replace of the current paradgim with this new look shared in this topic Then it was to continue to read further (food for thought = more thought/story) Then i read and @Hellspeed post kinda pulled me back Next was to write this post! The ego always wants and craves and vreates what it wants next in the story thereby perpetuating itself. I write this paradoxically as i realized this and yet back here to share the insight as a priority rather than dwell in it more.

Was talking to someone about the whole of existence being duality Heads and tails Good and bad Up and down Left and right But then he asked me something and it made me stuck as i dont know myself... Here's what he said: What side is the head of a ball. We dont define existence by non-existance its other way around. Nothing is not something if you define nothing it becomes something. I know an object like a sphere or ball.. unsure where the duality is there... ? Anyone explain? And what would be an answer to him saying that it's the other way around... Kinda makes sense too..

@Nahm wow thank you. Thank you!! Very elegant! God bless

@SQAAD Think of it this way... Even with your dualist POV of the world. A world where you were BORN. Every since your oldest memory which you can recall... has there ever been a pause in experiencing life? Your awareness is present in each passing moment. Enlightenment is just the realization of this ever-present awareness moment by moment. So yes, awareness is always permanent. But you may not be always watching from the ultimate POV.

@tentacion yes. It is a single being. And you are it. That also means i am it. It also means you and i are the same thing It also means everyone is it Now, dont limit your views... Those are just bodies we are talking about It's absolutely infinite for God's sake! So not only is it everyone, it is everything! EVERYTHING!

@non_nothing Why the awareness is interested in that it's the ego / mind who is interested. Awareness is simple aware of this interest being exhibited.

The absolute is simply this present moment and that is what i am just always the present moment, mapped infinitely in all directions, centered around this body/mind (body/mind from the POV of a human life. that which i am calling body/mind is just abstract patterns which appear - kinda like those DMT visuals , except that because we all used to this and exist in this realm since birth, to us they are not random. ) just like language can be this way if i hear someone speaking japanses for example, it will sound like gibberish to me vs someone speaks in english, i have to make no effort and it is understood as it's heard that's what leo meant i guess when he said to stare at your hand. WTF is that shit. looks creepy after a bit one your pre-supposed notions about it slowly fade away now, the NOW, the present moment, the single ever present frame of reality is WHAT I AM the story that's carried as a thought is included in each of these frames which come and go in the NOW life: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the left arrows are what the past is, but where does it "go" - if you take out the assumption about a sold existing world and us crawling about the earth then you get a single frame with both the earth and you on it. no two things. but ONE so again, where does that past/yesterday go? it just goes out and is replaced with the new NOW, when also goes that tiny | in the middle is how tiny and small and IN THE NOW our life occurs so you can change your life TODAY in that NOW by dropping whatever may have occurred in the PAST and deeply coming to know that IN THE NOW factor of your life the absolute is the NOW. i AM THE PRESENT MOMENT. Totally. completely.

@non_nothing time is an illusion... Relatively speaking. Or in other words, it isn't absolute. It is relative. You can to grasp it this way intellectually... That all of Reality exists already. Like a novel. Already printed and bound in a book format. Ready to read whenever. As you read thru the novel, you will be reading thru an apparent timeline (assuming linear story telling) So there's is an illusion of time as you read thru the book. The book/story is already ALL there. Time is a consequence of you reading thru it. Time isn't a separate thing. Reading it is the time. Same way, time isn't a separate factor with life. The passing of life thru the lense of your mind is Time. As Rupert Spira says, time is eternity seen thru the lense of your mind.

@Whatever Stories (inner world / contraction of awareness) + outter wolrd = wholeness / complete present moment We focus on the stories / inner world / I and as @Jack River said, this clinging is projected ahead into the "future" But as we are focused on just the stories we never find wholeness... Because wholeness, as you can see above isn't just the stories. It's also the rest of it. Stories = duality Wholeness is non-dual and complete. @Inliytened1 hey. I have had "my" moments of wholeness here and there but it's a work in progress

i saw a video once on a pron site, it was under the enlightened category

take the present moment and MINUS your stories about what/who you think you are (which are also contained within the present moment) and you will become the whole, instead of the part MINUS - means to drop the association with the story about who/what you are because though that's part of the present moment, you are not SOLEY that alone. you are ALL OF IT. the WHOLE FRAME OF NOW, not a piece of it.

@Serotoninluv @Nahm yes I agree. I find myself to be in a lot of the intellectual theory and understanding Need to bring it more into direct experience and raising awareness Plan is to develop some strong practice But i wud much rather term that as a non-practice... Being that its so simple that it requires you to out-wit yourself... Dont want to be stuck "doing" a practice But goal is to see the true nature:) Also, side Question and doesn't relate to the search or anything But why do you say Eckhart tolle or rupert spira arent enlightened? Isn't their seeking done.. or in Eckhart's case. Had ego death and now there is no ego there... Isn't that enlightenment? They are aware of their true nature and live from that place moment to moment? No? Just curious why you are saying they aren't enlightened? Is this related to the 10 ox pics? That they maybe up there at step 8 or 9 but aren't at 10 yet?

@TheAvatarState @TheAvatarState @Serotoninluvj but it doesn't seem to bring me any happiness, fulfillment, or extra value to the experience. REAlize there is no me/you there to have happiness. Use the Awakening to know there is no you The audience watching a movie is free from the character's happiness or suffering Unless you become attached to the character.. and that's the example of people getting emotional when watching a sad movie for example REAlize you are the audience and are ever okay with respect to what happens on the screen.

@Preetom thanks that was nice Not trying to take that as more content But the mechanism is nicely explained there I like to think of it this way also, When listening to a song, a song you know... The part of you which knows what's coming next. The part of you who knows the memory of what's to come (not the memory, but the knowing of it) ... That KNOWING is the true self. It can't be pin pointed cuz it will slip away the moment you try to pin it.. it will go meta to that action. Always.