SoonHei

@clouffy you are asking this question as EGO and I will give you the answer which I think works best for the EGO enlightenment is always the case. using metaphors: enlightenment is knowing that the tv screen is / was / will remain ON and that you are the screen itself. right now, there's a tv show which is playing where clouffy, a character, thinks he is not enlightened and this will be replaced with a tv show where the body/mind of clouffy remains and will know that it was always enlightened the TV SCREEN is always present. the TV SHOWS change. you are the TV SCREEN and not the TV SHOW after "enlightenment" (self-realization) TV SHOWS will still continue, you will just start to "like" them more as you will not mind whatever happens in the show which happens to be playing at that time.

@Recursoinominado cool thanks. @universe lol. I was wearing a sweater, sitting near a portable heater and in a blanket lol

@Recursoinominado hmmm thank you for that. yeah, i remeber having read about that, but couldnt find where. thanks i dont really have emotions which arise along with it i remain calm now rather than 1st time it happened i was all like DA EFF IS THIS SHIT but now, its like i have a poker face on and body is shaking like it's japan during like 9.0 earthquake god bless hopefully emotions are silently being snucked out during this process too

@seeking_brilliance thanks for reply yeah, i suspect blockages or just trapped energy which is releasing in short, nothing to "worry" about per say... allow the shaking to happen knowing it's just trapped energy releasing and is good for the body?

@Joseph Maynor @IVONNE @Joseph Maynor That's why it's "apparent" free will. Innit?

@IVONNE there is no person there to begin with... No person there as a separate entity to have or not have any free will. That's what @Rilles is saying. Kind of like how a character in a book makes an apparent choice... But the decision was not his, it was the author's (pre-determined) but from the POV of the story and the character, he made the choice out of his own free will. In reality, there is no character beyond the story in real life.

@Highest <3 <3 bless up. indeed. and yes, i find the high deepens any breakthrough or understanding which I have sober. Seed is planet sober, and watered and grown when high

same here. or at least i tell myself that initially, weed began as randomn fun for me... eating was really fun while high. food tasted 100x better but now can't really tell difference... maybe because i did a lot and now used to it anyhow. i , like you, do it for non-dual work i find it easier to contemplate and apporach non-dual work while high too i do have things i want to stop using weed for as well - some traps i think which are there.... and hopefully my ego isnt fronting the whole usage and continued planned usage for this non-dual work when deep down my body is just addictied anyways. mind over matter >

@passerby https://www.rogercastillo.org/home he's got retreats coming in Australia in October 2019 His YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3nxl1CdbbysJB_KUBaLEfw

LOLOLOL Amen

<3 <3 amazing.

@Mikael89 Says the character Mikael in the movie which you are watching. You blaming the absolute = a character who is suffering in a tradegdy movie and when asked, blames the audience for watching the movie for having caused his suffering. Point i am making is that SEE how futile that is.. and how silly Blaming the absolute, sure... And then what? Also, in movies where an actor plays a double role (twin character or even 2 diff characters) say this actor plays both the good and the bad guy who loses in the movie. doesit make sense for the actor to complain about being the bad guy who loses ? He is also the good guy! And on the whole. He is real, characters are false. So if you're stuck in being playing mikael's character... Tough role i suppose... But you are also playing all other roles Love the role Know your role Play and live your role.

You might define a certain thought arising about your present moment experience. Any Thought or the label you may give to an experience is the perfect representation of that particular experience. So if you're sitting in a room on a yellow couch in Canada Then you are having an experience of sitting in a room on a yellow couch in Canada with the thought about it. And there is no " with the thought " it's together as a package. Thought included in your total experience from it! Not your experience of it and then "your" thought about it. @Jack River just understood this insight as a concept but it's already doing great! I see now what you mean by ONE UNITARY MOVEMENT! A block of experience (including thoughts) "moving thru time" But it's moving thru you . And you are totally still and unmoving

"...and they knew they were naked"

@Jack River wow amazing. Your words are flowing to me deeply right now Thank you

@Faceless epic

I didn't believe in ghosts or spirits... Until I found that I myself am a spirit, and that alone! Not the body or the mind, no thing of such kind!

One thing which came to my mind after first watching Leo video about absolute Infinity is that reality is truly that indeed. Absolutely effin infinite! Not limited or bound by anything, hence its the ALL Then Leo also says that it's not randomness and it's highly intelligent Which is fine... The appearance of order and highly intelligent is an appearance within the absolute But it seems that if reality didn't include randomness/ dullness and chaos within it (all relative distinctions btw) then how can it be absolutely infinite? Absolutely infinite implies a run-away chain reaction of infinite possibilities all appearing @Leo Gura Can that not be the case? As the absolute is the container of all Reality It would include within it, highly ordered and unordered sets, highly intelligent and unintelligent systems and so on?

@TheAvatarState hmmm, yes i do understand now what you meant... as this is ultimately a teaching... and like most teachings, there is a time when it applies and there will come a time when it also must be let go off... so to a beginner, it should not be something they should focus on... common response being, "okay, so i will just sit and do nothing... i am not doing anything anyways... i am not in control" also. with this truth (like many other truths) once it is fully understood, it should bring about the end of seeking i really liked an example @winterknight wrote "I know I'm sitting here on the couch watching the movie. I'm not in the movie. But there are still a few things I want to get clear... like what I should do when I face that movie villain." if one truly did understand that they are not the character who has apparent free will - then they would not have the follow up question the follow up question confirms that the questioner has taken the teaching as a concept only.

a similar thread also started about 7 hours prior and in terms of no free will vs a free will it's all about which perspective you see it from there is only "apparent free will" and yes, as you said, in truth, there is no free will free will is something which an individual separate entity may have but there is no individual separate entity so there can be no free will

@Jkris understand predetermination the following way. does a character in a story have any choice about what his next action will be? or is it dictated by the author of the story who is outside of the story-world? reality is the same. there are seemingly real characters making choices here and there... but when it is seen and understood that the characters are being played by actors... then it is seen that there was never any free will and all happened as it was destined to. check out this:

@SQAAD Yes. Everything in life predetermined. Just like a movie / novel is written. Creation of this thread was inevitable and Robi and my replies were also inevitable. The way that you may or may not cope with this is also predetermined. Sqaad also needs to recognize that if all is predetermined - it means whatever he appears to do is not his doing... but rather a preset happening. including confusion about this topic and questions like the one raised above... there is nobody here to be coping with anything psychologically and if there's an apparent someone here who needs to cope, that will then happen on it's own accord. So, YOU need only sit back and wait. and allow whatever needs to happen, happen.

This was really good! @Aakash bro. With this, i think one needs to get that such a statement / question can only arise if one isn't speaking from the TRUTH. It can only arise if one is speaking as the ego who believes in a concept that it can have enlightenment. @winterknight thank you. Powerful reminder for myself too. Questioning who asks or makes a particular statement And then the answer is seen/felt.

i will attempt to answer as I seem to be in a similar place the one who wants to kill the person is also the person - in other words, not me. i am just aware of this unfolding that I want to kill the doubter or try to stop the one thinking there is more to do and I am aware of it, prior to my writing/saying that I am aware of it. i am aware - always. silently so the identification flickers back n forth but the reminding thought which pops up soon after is that I AM THAT and this drops me back to the I AM and detachment occurs.

You are space, and now you appear to be the image superimposed on space. Now you identify with the image, but prior to consciousness you were not the space, really, nor the image? The reason I say you were not the space is because we can talk about it, so you have a concept of space, and again, as long as you have a concept of space, it's not that. The only way you can find out is by not saying anything, by catching yourself between thoughts. When you have a thought, and you're trying to figure out what it is, and when the thought stops, before your next thought enters, that's it. The space between thoughts is what we are talking about. So the thing to remember again is as long as you can talk about it, as long as you can describe it, as long as you can argue about it, as long as you stick up for your rights and say it's this or it's that, you're wrong. You're not really wrong, you're just on the wrong track, because if you were wrong, then something is right, and nothing is right, so there's nothing wrong. It goes beyond duality concepts. That's why I tell you to spend so much time alone, when you don't watch television, and you don't listen to the phone ring, where you can cut yourself off from the radio. Just sit and be your Self. Then you will experience pure being. For as long as you search, you'll never find it. After all, ask what you are searching for. You are searching for something that you already are. That's why you can never find it. If you were not that, then you would search, but you're already that, so searching becomes fruitless. And what is that? That is the space between your atoms. Every sentient and insentient thing is composed of trillions of atoms, but the space in between is consciousness. Again, we use the word consciousness for want of a better word. (tape break as Robert continues) But again, we have to function in the world, so we don't walk around trying to be smart. Instead what we do is function in the world as ourselves. Be your Self. If you are your Self, then you're safe. In other words, you're not trying to be anything. Just be your Self. What does it mean to be your Self? To live spontaneously. Most of us live from the past, as you know, and then we worry what we're going to do in the future. If you learn to forget about the past and the future, you're safe. When you live spontaneously you have no time to think, and that's when you become the witness. For thoughts are simply about the past and the future. True? When you learn to act in the moment, when you're acting in the moment you can't think because you're acting. Therefore, your thoughts are only on what you're doing and when that stops there are no thoughts, and you go on to the next thing. But you do not try to analyze the thing at all, whether everything will work out, whether it’s good or bad, whether you're making something out of it or not, whether it's in your favor or against you, all that's got to go. I received a call from a lady in Santa Cruse the other day and she started to tell me about her marital problems, so I stopped her. I told her I didn't want to hear anything about any marital problems. Does she know who she is? That's all I care about. If she knows who she is, then she goes beyond marital problems. She goes beyond concepts, longings, wants, desires. She'll be safe. For once you lift yourself up nothing can touch you again. The world no longer has any power over you. The world only has power over you when you identify yourself as a body. If you identify yourself as a body, then the world becomes real, objects become real, situations become real, the universe becomes real, God becomes real, everything becomes real and you live in duality. So one day you're suffering, the next day you're happy. Happiness leads to suffering, suffering leads to happiness. Of course, that's human happiness I'm talking about, human suffering. But as soon as you learn to go beyond that, and again that happens by living spontaneously, all suffering ceases. After all, for who is the suffering? For the one who identifies with the thoughts. {…} As an example, somebody gets fired from their job. They start to worry about that and this leads to worrying about the future, because when you worry about the past, getting fired, you're going to start worrying and thinking, "How will I pay my rent next month? How will I buy food?" And the mind loves that. It starts feeding you more. Pretty soon you imagine yourself evicted from your house and you see yourself in the welfare lines, and you see yourself become a homeless person, and sure enough you do, because that's what you believe. That's where your mind is leading you. As long as you feel you have a mind, it becomes very, very powerful. Then you can say that, "Thoughts are things," for your thoughts will materialize in this world of effects, that which you believe is real. Subsequently, if you start worrying about your job, being terminated, and you start worrying about food, and you start worrying about evictions and all that stuff, you're really saying to yourself mentally, "That's what I want to happen," and you always get what you want. You've got to watch yourself. The secret is not to change your thoughts, but to get rid of your thoughts completely. We're not trying to change negative thoughts to positive thoughts, for all positive thoughts lead to negative thoughts, negative thoughts lead to positive thoughts, that's duality. We're trying to transcend the whole bowl of wax, to go beyond, and that's what happens when you live spontaneously, it happens by itself. Living spontaneously is a meditation. Do not concern yourself with the fruits of your efforts. Everything will take care of yourself, of itself. In other words, what I mean by that is, if you're in a job for twenty-four years, do not concern yourself if you get terminated or you don't, that's not the point. The point is who do you think you are? Do you believe that you're that frail human being that has been terminated, or that frail person who has lots of marital problems, or that frail person who doesn't know if he's going to die or live? Forget about all these things, go beyond it. Identify with the absolute awareness. Identify with the total reality which you really are. You do not identify with those things by affirming them. You identify with those things by what? By silence. You see the difference? There are many schools that tell you, change the negative into a positive, but that's based on the world of relativity. You'll have to experience both, and there will be no end to it. But when there's silence in the mind, that means you get rid of all concepts, of all desires, of all needs, of all wants, of all hurts. You become oblivious to everything. Then the real Self begins to take over, which is you, and you'll automatically do, or gravitate to, the place where you have to be. It will all happen by itself, but don't think of that. Think of nothing. Learn how to quiet your mind. Learn how to make your mind quiescent like a motionless lake. A motionless lake can attract, or image, reflect, the sun, the stars, the moon, trees, grass. A lake that is noisy cannot reflect anything. So, when you learn to quiet your mind you reflect your Self, and your Self is always harmony, always bliss, always sat-chit-ananda, always the absolute reality, always absolute oneness. That's your real Self. That's who you really are. It's all up to you. What do you do with your life everyday? How do you live your life? This doesn't mean that you have to sit home and meditate all day long. It means you can go about your business. You can work. You cannot work. You can go to a movie. You can watch TV. You can do whatever you like, but never identify with the object! Never identify with what the body is doing. Let the body do whatever it came here to do, but you keep the mind and yourself on your heart, on the light, on consciousness. Quiet your mind any way you want, whatever method you use. Become the witness to your thoughts. Use atma-vichara, self-inquiry, whatever method you have to use, do it, but do it all day long, that's the secret. Not just when you come here, not just an hour a day, but all during the day. So how would you handle it if you go to your work and they terminate you? Instead of worrying, you would ask the question to yourself, "To whom is this happening? Who's going through this experience? I am." Hold onto the I with all your might. Follow the I to the source. Look at the I as a thread that seems to be connected from the source to what you're thinking about. And all of your thoughts are attached to the that thread, to the I thread. All of your fears, all of your frustrations, all of your desires, everything is attached to the I thread, and as you hold on to it tight; you follow it, follow it into the heart center. Then it will just seem to disappear. The reason I say it will seem to disappear is because it never existed to begin with, (laughs) so it appears to disappear. But once that happens you're free and you will not be disturbed by any mortal condition, and you will be happy. But when I say you'll be happy I am not referring to human happiness. I am referring to happy-happy, happy hour, really happy, for no reason. Again because your true nature is happiness, your true nature is bliss. When you get rid of the other stuff your true nature shines forth effortlessly. That's why we call this the pathless path, because there's really no path. There's only a quietness of the mind, following the I to the source. Then all of a sudden you become omnipresence, you become omniscience, you become omnipotence. Then you can say, "I am That I am," but there will be nobody left to say anything really. You will just bask in the sunshine of your love, of your happiness, of your bliss. {…} -- Robert Adams, T20: Before I Am