Zweistein

I also want to thank everyone else who contributed to my/our progress ;-) I think it's time for me to say good bye for now again! There is more to learn and it needs my full concentration. If you don't understand why I have to say good bye now, contemplate: Could it be true that we are still caught up in too much theory and don't take enough action in the real world as long as we are discussing theory here? Could it be true that as long as we are discussing theory here, we are still looking for pleasure, success, wealth, identity, security, comfort and companionship?* *source:

Are you sure that this was only your problem? Did you observe what I learned from our conversation? So, thank you, Sweetheart! (You wouldn't turn into the same kind of monster like I did, would you?)

@MrDmitriiV Thank you! Do you think ice and fire could actually turn into water? Or is that wishful thinking? I will need some time to learn. How could I be so freaking naive that I'm here to heal only myself?

Sorry, for my late answer. I connected a lot of dots today ;-) (oh wait, no - only victims justify themselves - but if I notice it, I'm not a victim anymore. Or am I? ) This is what I learned: I can see my arrogant behavior and where I behave like a racist. I understand even better now why it seems so freaking impossible to heal the worlds (inner and outer). I hope that @MrDmitriiV shows up again, so we can play another game of soccer and maybe we can play a bit more fair this time?

I wouldn't mind talking a bit more about practical applications using some of the tools we have learned, what do you think? For example, if we would recontextualize and assume that @MrDmitriiV could as well be a well-known psychologist, who really wants to try to teach us something here (maybe using some very sneaky manipulative methods to figure out our true nature?). How would that change the game?

Also, can we explore the question why and how do (our) ego-identities fail to see their own evil at work? Could the devil be in the tiniest nuances (sometimes just words/letters/language which can lead to huge emotions)?

@tsuki to answer your questions (below), can we take a look at this lovely graphic again? Also, how do we spark willingness to love?

Well, I just learned that in non-dual world there is no difference, but in dual world there is a very tiny difference that actually matters. If we fail to make this tiny difference, we are in fact completely screwed. I contemplated this a lot and I agree with Leo's view on this point nowadays. P.S. Could it be a clue how one can walk through a mirror? ?

@MrDmitriiV What exactly did you want to teach us? Can you elaborate? I would assume that it has to do with our arrogant style of communicating with you, doesn't it?

I wanted to add (again) that you shouldn't believe anything I say! I can see how I'm becoming a miniature version of Byron Katie here and forcing my ideology onto you guys/girls. It might be a good way to have a more constructive communication without too many projections, but (as I said above) using only her model can turn you into an emotionally numb person. In fact, you can turn into an arrogant asshole forcing this ideology onto others. Can we agree on that? ? Can we also agree that what we are doing here is (maybe even high-level) mental masturbation, but doesn't that distract us from being present in the moment? Aren't we just feeding our addiction to thinking? Isn't it smarter to be quiet (and maybe ask questions, but only sometimes)?

Yes, because this is a journal to nourish love, Sweetheart! (But I agree, sometimes, it's fun to fight as well as long as it's playful and nobody cares about winning )

@tsuki How about this? Does that leave everyone else also with enough material to ponder about?* I'm leaving the party now to get enough sleep ;-) Namaste! *Don't worry, I still often fail to inquire before I say or write anything. But I prefer to think that it can only get better as long as I have a little bit of intrinsic motivation to work on it.

@now is forever You are probably just tired, aren't you? Whenever I was moving, it took more of my energy than I wanted it to...

@everyone Why would anyone be bothered if someone says "you are a racist", if we could simply choose to see it as a projection and our "problem" is easily solved? There is not even a need to get emotional about it, is there?* *I'm not advocating to become emotionally numb (which is a drawback of Byron Katie's "The work"). I had to learn that the hard way. Emotions are important and it's good to show how one feels (if one can do it without projecting and judging), just simply by saying "I feel this or that way"... helps tremendously to have a better communication.

Ok, wait, before it gets to messy, let me give you some examples... If I would have written: "You are a super aggressive lion." I would then ask myself, wait, how am I a super aggressive lion? So, I would inquire that and probably find some good enough examples how I am a super aggressive lion. Then I would erase that and think again. I would think about how could I constructively contribute to a conversation so it doesn't end up in an ego-war. So, before I submit comments on anything, I try to make an effort to contemplate.

Thank you for the good laugh, Tsuki! ?

Maybe it's time for a good exercise for further communication without fighting to much? ? Could everyone read their statements and replace every "you" with "I"?

@MrDmitriiV Could it be possible that any of these kind of sources are biased? If so, why? So, are you saying that spiral dynamics is about long-term promotion of love? How would that work if it can't even promote love in the short term, but rather causes even more corruption, judgements and war? Do you consider yourself a racist? If you look deep inside, do you find any tendencies? I didn't realize that I projected all my hatred against men (choleric father plus the typically disadvantages a woman has in modern society these days) on my poor husband until a few days ago. @now is forever Why do you think he didn't wipe his shoes enough? Does our journal-party need a dress code? ?

If we think they involve us in a mess, it's victim behavior - isn't it? So, what do we do with this instinct? Somehow I fail to see the benefits in cases where our help is not wanted...

Considering that I understood the drawbacks of spiral dynamics now, I want to revise my previous arrogant statement (above). How could I even dare to think I "left green behind"? ? How could I even dare to assign any stage to my evil ego-identity? (I like turning statements into questions nowadays ?)

@now is foreverAfter some more contemplation, I wonder if we as women tend to find ourselves subconsciously drawn to people who need help. We sometimes create a codependency even if it's not wanted or needed, don't we? I wonder if it's a psychological need or some sort of mother instinct - what do you think?

@MrDmitriiV What are the drawbacks of spiral dynamics? Is that model promoting love and compassion? ? P.S. What's your source for the 95%+?

@MrDmitriiV How did you find the courage? Isn't it dangerous to play with fire? ? Could it be that you might find yourself switching from one ideology to the next if you stick around?

In this context, we can ask more lovely questions ? Could it be true, that subconscious psychological needs usually show up when one feels unobserved or fails to observe oneself? Isn't observing the most important tool to understand reality and how systems works? How can you otherwise act accordingly? How can you develop a hypothesis without testing "the waters"? @tsuki Did you take the picture? ?

Could we agree that healthy codependency is pretty much equal to interdepency?