FindingPeace

There is an important lesson in this story and one that I think is becomming more relevent in modern times. It is especially relevent to internet long-distance relationships. But it also applies to all human relationships of all kinds. Something that I have become aware of is how we create these relationships. In our minds. Two people are interracting and each one starts to look for value in the interraction and the other person. They already have a self-agenda of what they want or need. So they will look for these things. Over time each person builds up a 'framework', effectively a projection, that, in their own mind, represents this relationship, what it means to them and what they expect out of it. It also represents your own interpretation of the other person. All of this is created by you, in your own mind. Your entire side of the relationship is created by you and projected on to the interraction. In essense, we are defining the context of the interraction. This tends to go unnoticed and we assume the the context creates itself and just 'is'. But that isn't the case. Each person in the relationship creates their own context and perception of the interraction and the other person. And there is nothing to say that one person's perceived context is the same as the other persons. This is quite easy to see in many relationships. The problem is, we need a context or conceptual 'framework' in order to have an interraction with someone. Otherwise there is nothing to derive motivation and direction from. With out a conceptual framework, it would be impossible to interract with someone in a constructive and functional way. But the problem is that we project this conceptual framework, this context, on to the situation. So we have to realise that it is comming from us. We create it. It is a manifestation of our own wants, needs, desires, values, beliefs etc. The framework provides a kind of protocol for the interraction so that we know what to expect and how to respond etc. So sometimes we discover that our concept of the relationship is not the same as the other persons. Usually, we start to feel that it is the other person that is doing 'wrong' or being unreasonable, or just being an ass. But who set the expectation in the first place? Who decided how the other person 'should' respond to you? You did. The sobering truth is that we create the pain ourselves from our own projections. From our own interpretations of the situation and from the context that we apply to it. We want something and are dissapointed when we don't get it. The thing is, we have to have these conceptual frameworks. We have to project, to a certain extent. Otherwise we can not take any action in life. So we have to assume some context for our actions. We make a choice to assume a framework for the interraction. And it's important to remember that it is a choice. Because we have to accept that by making a choice we are taking a chance that we are mistaken, or that our expectations won't be met. And if they aren't met, then we cannot hold anyone else responsible for that. For it was our own choice in the first place to assume the context of the situation. This is the same for trust as well. Trust is a choice. When we trust in someone we are making a choice to assume that someone will respect our interests. Again, though, if they 'violate' our trust, it was only us that created the context for that trust in the first place. We cannot tell others how to behave nor can we expect how they will behave. We can only take responsibility for how we respond to them. The sobering realisation is that we do this with every aspect of our lives. We are each responsible for creating our own subjective realities. We each set up frameworks and contexts from within which we act in and interpret life. Interpretation of a situation is entirely with the context that we apply to the situation. Something we create in our own minds. So here is a thought experiment for anyone who has an internet relationship (because it's easier to apply this experiment to this context). You 'know' someone through the internet, Maybe through chat or video calls. But are they really there? In the room? Is the relationship there, in the room? Who is creating the relationship and setting the terms of it? Who is setting the expectations? How much of the context of the relationship is shaped by your wants, needs and desires? What is the relationship? Because it isn't a physical thing you can see in the room. After all, the person isn't there. So in what way is there even a 'relationship' taking place? Hopefully these questions might bring you to the awareness of how we create it all from within our own mind. If so, keep this in mind if things stop going the way you want them to. This is showing you where you need to do work. And perhaps what is driving you to seek these relationships in the first place.

I just want to add, that the self-interest that people tend to act with, is not necessarily a 'bad' thing. It is just the way it is, for most of us. In fact once we accept this truth, suddenly we can relate to people so much better and be more understanding and accepting of them. It might seem counterintuitive but this is certainly how I have found it.

The problem is, who is deciding that the advice is bad? You? Or some other person? The advice might be different from yours but it may not be 'bad'. Or it may be. Ultimately it isn't your responsibility, it's down to the receiver of the advice to make their judgment call.. One thing I've had to learn to do on this forum, is accept that different people have different insights. Whether I agree with it or not. I'll add my penny's worth and allow the person to choose what to go with. It's their choice. But at least people here get a variety of advice to choose from. I never take advice on blind faith. I like to 'see' what someone is saying. If I can see it, then I will adopt the concept. If I can't see it, then I will either give it further investigation and contemplation, or I will leave it. I have never believed anything that Leo even says. I don't need to. I can see what his insights point to for myself. I like advice that is self-evident.

It seems more like a way of not having to engage with their kids. It's like people want children, but then don't want the hassle of attending to them, so they 'keep them quiet' with some distraction like a tablet or video game. And we wonder why society is going the way it is.. I personally think it is a bad thing. It's not conducive to people living in the 'real' world. Nowadays everyone wants to hide from reality with their headphones on and their phone in their hands, away in their own private bubble. It must be so alien to people if they are standing in the street and they were to take off their headphones and actually...be present.

You are starting to see truth. To put it simply, and as uncomfortable as this is for most people to hear, every human is acting out of self-interest. Ultimately. When you are of value to them they will 'care' about you. When you are no longer of value, they no longer care. This is the usual model. I do think that some people can be more authentic in their concern for others, but in the majority of cases it follows this standard pattern of self-interest. It's quite easy to see it when you look. It's just that we don't want to see it. Authentic, meaningful, relationships come when people don't want anything from you, and they accept you completely without judgment. When they accept the natural rewards from the relationships, rather than demanding rewards that are not already there.

Yes, it could be the one about 'the mechanics of belief', or 'why rationality is wrong' or it's the 'the ultimate model of all human knowledge'' one. I'm sure it is one of those.

I think people misunderstand what enlightenment is. Perhaps I do too, but I have my own interpretation of it which may or may not be accurate. But people seem to see enlightenment as some single moment of realisation that suddenly transforms your perspective on reality. Perhaps this is the case, but I also think that there is far more to it than that. From my interpretation, enlightment consists of pretty much everything that Leo has talked about since his earliest videos: breaking through limiting beliefs and creating a clearer perception of what is 'real' and what is not. To me, it is more about understanding the subtle psychology that creates our subjective experience of reality. Learning about how we conceptualise and project. Learning how we become attached to things, how we evaluate and judge things. How we generate emotions, how and why we are motivated the way that we are, or aren't. Importantly it is about understanding the role of ego and self-agenda and how those things manisfest themselves and the issues they cause. I see enlightenment as the raising of awareness to the point that everything I listed above becomes self-evident, and consequently we learn how to see through the 'illusions' and can have a more peacful, understanding, accepting and satisfying attitude towards life, and other people. Perhaps some people experience this shift in awareness in a momentary experience. But I think, more likely, is that enlightenment is something that grows as you grow yourself and raise your awareness. And rather than suddenly thinking "wow, cool, here we are...now what?" instead you will slowly grow a better perception of reality and of your own mind (and other's minds), have less suffering in your life and more authenitcity - love, passion, intuition and motivation and far more acceptance. So how will it change your everyday life? You will be less neurotic, be more conneted to the world around you, be more mindful, more authentic, les stressed, less anxious, less attached to everything and everyone. In short, you will have more peace of mind and satisfaction in life with far les effort. Isn't this where we all want to be?

"I may not be someone's first choice, but I'm a great choice. I may not be rich, but I'm valuable. I don't pretend to be someone I'm not, because I'm good at being me. I might not be proud of some of the things I've done in the past, but I'm proud of who I am today. I may not be perfect, but I don't need to be. Take me as I am or watch me as I walk away!" - Unknown.

There's an inherent flaw with democracy. Ultimately it only works in the favour of the majority but even then, it won't work entirely in favour of every person within that majority. Regardless of the outcome of a vote, there will always be people who are satisfied and people who aren't. Ultimately nothing was solved. To hold the assumption that the majority should be catered for only excludes the minority. It's all ego games in the end. The strongest collective ego dominates over the lesser collective egos. Everyone wants only what is best for themselves. And everyone wants different things. How can this be resolved? There is no system within any society that can cater for every person within that system. Someone will always suffer. Ultimately the best you can hope for is a compromise. Democracy can't work, when you look at it.

I don't completely agree with this. This is more of the stereotypical description of introversion. While some are like this, many introverts are not. And there are plenty of introverted people that look outwards, participate in the world and socialise. There are different types and degrees to introversion and extroversion. They not as black-and-white as people often try to make out. I like this. Ultimately it is all just labelling. It serves no real purpose. How about we free ourselves of the labels and just act authentically in the moment? It really doesn't matter what 'kind' of person we are. We are the kind of person we are in the present moment. And only in that moment. And it can change, from one moment to the next or gradually over time. It really has no relevence to anything. You are the way you are regardless of the labels you want to apply to yourself. The labels are of no consequence to your characteristics. I gave up wondering which I was years ago. I'm 'supposed' to be an introvert, yet I can happily go out in the world, be around people, engage and be very active. Then, when I've had enough of that, I can happily spend hours or days in solitude enjoying my own company and my contemplations. This is a fundamental problem with all the black-and-white dualistic labels we humans feel compelled to invent. Because once we invent them we spend our lives trying to 'fit' in to one or the other. Causing ourselve's undue concern and anxiety. Judging ourselves against eveyone else's labels. "Am I this or that?". Maybe I'm neither or both. Of maybe it just doesn't matter. Reality is not so black and white. It is more nuanced, but unfortunately our labelling system isn't.

As long as it a) has a seat, b) hasn't been sprinkled on and c) doesn't have anything unpleasant lurking in the water and d) doesn't smell... then all is good. More to the point.. is there any soap to wash your hands with? And does it smell nice?

I don't think age is relevent. What is relevent is whether two people connect in an authentic and meaningful way. You could argue that younger people have less life experience to be able to connect with older people. But then again, it isn't always life experience that matters. It's attitude towards life and world-view that counts. I find that I rarely notice people's ages when I'm interracting with them. They are just people. I either connect with them or I don't. Age is just a label, a human construct. A measurement of time. But none of that matters. If two people connect, then age is meaningless.

Be your authentic self. Don't try to be something for the sake of others. Be whatever you want for your own sake.

Yes and you need to know where to look to find the root cause of it. Neediness is another way to describe insecurity. You value and want something, for some underlying reason, and you fear not getting or sustaining it. So why are you needy with people? You want them to like you, notice you, reassure you, validate and approve of you? Why? Ask yourself why it is so important to you that people respond to you in a certain way? So originally you were needy because you were craving for people to notice you. You were needy because you felt it was the only way to get their attention and reassurance. Yet you later proved to yourself that by being more detached that people will actually notice and validate you. The lesson here is this: you can try to be something for the sake of gaining the attention of others. Or, you can be 'yourself' and people will give you their attention anyway. But rather than wait for people to naturally respond to you without being needy, you seek out people who may otherwise not respond to you, and then behave in a needy fashion towards them in order to get their response. You are going to them rather than allowing them to come to you. I learned something I long time ago: There are people who will like you without you having to do anything. And there are people who won't like you. Both is normal and perfectly acceptable. But we all too often forget that it's ok for people not to like us. We go around trying to make everyone like us and fearing whenthey don't. Ultimately, those that accept us as we are (without the effort) are the ones we want in our lives. Those who don't accept us are the one's we don't need in our lives. So don't stress about them. Authentic connections with people will only come from relationships with people who accept you as you are without you having to 'be' something for them. And likewise in return. But all of this still goes back to the insecurity at the heart of it. And somewhere in there, maybe from your past, will be causal factors that led to you being insecure with people. And also led to you feeling that you 'need' people. Perhaps some abandomnment issues. So some deep introspection is required. As others have said, self-image plays a part. Self-image is both 'real' and 'not real'. The concept of self-image is very real to the subjective experience of your reality. But what it is, is a story. A story about 'who you are' and all the criteria that you think define you. You may have a belief that 'people don't like me' which is causing you to try and compensate by being needy. Or you may believe that 'I need to have friends because it's normal'. So social pressures play in to it. But these beliefs from your self-image are just beliefs... beliefs are not reality. And they are complete subjective. You opinion of yourself, and indeed anyone else's opinions of you, are just opinions. The are not fact. Even though they feel real. It's true that dropping the self-image will help to remove neediness or caring what others think, but that's very hard from most people to do. It's all well and good for those who have developed spritiually and psychologically. But to tell someone to 'drop the self image' is meaningless to many people. It's not so much that having a self-image is a problem, it's being attached to it that causes issues. Realise that the 'story' you have of yourself is just that... a story. If you look back over the years you can even see how it was written. But the story is not fixed and in fact it isn't that important. The 'you' that you think you are, is the person that you are in any given moment. There is no need to make reality fit your personal story in order to reinforce it. The story can change. Parts can finish, new parts can begin. But ultimately it's all irrelevent. Learning how to be comfortable with whoever you are in the moment is the key to being detached from you self-image and from the need to reinforce it with external validation. Just to clarify something here. 'Extroversion' does not mean being 'nice' or 'caring' towards people. There is also a certain stigma around introversion. Some people are one, some the other, some can be both at different times. But there seems to be a negative attitude towards introversion, like it is something to be avoided. This is not the case. And in fact we need people of both types in this world. But introverted people can be just as nice, caring and sociable as extroverted people. There is a myth that introverted people remain withdrawn in solitude much of the time. No. But they do like to 'recharge' on their own after being in social situations. Extroverts tend to be energised by social interraction, introverts are energised by solitude. But both can be equally as outgoing or withdrawn as each other at different times. Anyway I don't know if this is relevent to this thread, although it seems to me that perhaps you think that you are introverted and feel awkward about that such that you "decided to be extra nice" in order to be 'extroverted'. In any case... stop 'being' anything towards people. Just be natural and authentic. Authenticity will attract people to you with you having to try.

Confiding in other can be very beneficial. The reason being that we tend to express more when we are able to verbalize our thoughts and feelings. Sometimes the act of verbalizing and explaining our thoughts and feelings can reveal answers and insights to us without much participation from the other person. Kind of like using someone as a sounding board. The important thing, though, is that the other person listens and accepts what you say. They don't need to give opinions and solutions because, as others have said here, they are not necessarily qualified to do so. But, if they can be open to listening and can encourage you to be open with your thoughts, then it can be very constructive. I have had people try to explain some life issue to me, only to finish off by saying that they feel so much better for having done so, even though I never actually gave much in the way of feedback. There is only so much intorspection we can do in our minds and also we are not always so honest with ourselves. So having the opportunity to express things verbally can give us a means to 'straighten' out our thoughs and maybe even see answers for ourselves. An alternative way of doing this is by journalling.

A sin, or evil, or bad are just labels to identify things that serve against your own interests. Or the interests of the majority. Ulimately, any action that serves against someone's own interest will be regarded by that person as 'bad' or 'wrong' or a 'sin'. So it is entirely subjective. If it wasn't for humans evaluating everything in accordance to their own self-agendas, there would be no 'good' or 'bad'. After all, who would we making the judgment?

The key to communication is being open and honest. But I don't just mean from the 'speaker's' point of view. I mean that the listener has to be capable of hearing the open and honest communication without judgment, criticism or reacting. Communication is ony difficult because people can't be accepting of what they hear. Instead they compare to their own self-interests, values and beliefs and pass judgment on the information. Imagine how much better communication would be if both the speaker and the listener could engage in complete honesty without judgement. Then you would 'hear' what was being said and can respond in a more reasonable way. Communication becomes a problem only because differences of opinions create conflict. So it becomes a conflict rather than a discussion. What communication should really be, is a presentation of one's subjective experience. Without the conflict. Imagine communicating the honest truth knowing that it will be totally accepted without fear of judgment, criticism or negative reaction. How much more constructive would it be? When communicating, leave your own self-interests, values and beliefs to the side for a moment and just listen. And appreciate that the other person has their own self-interests, values and beliefs. Then look at what needs to be done to find some constructive way forward.

Person 1: " I bla bla bla... ME bla bla bla... ME bla.... I bla bla.." Enlightened guy: "You need to get over yourself"

Where to people get this idea of 'bliss' from? Happiness is not bliss, or excitement, or stimulation or any elevated positive mood. Happiness = peace of mind. It's not a mood, or an emotion. Therefore, yes, happiness is gained from detachment, Yes, precisely. They are the same thing. There really needs to be some clarification of what we are trying to acheive through personal development. The term 'happiness' is too often misused and misunderstood, and confused for 'bliss'. I see this time and again. Only an ego needs to look for 'bliss'. Bliss = a happy ego. Peace of mind = ego is irrelevent.

It's not unusual for people to become aware of 'truth' when under chronic or extreme stress or emotional pain. That when people often have moments of insight or awakenings. And as the cancer of modern materialistic, hedonic and competetive culture strengthens, people are suffering more and more stress and anxiety as a result. So it stands to reason that people are starting to 'see through' the bullshittery and seek an alternative path.

You're only bored because you anticipate there being something more rewarding to be doing. Something more stimulating and exciting. Boredom is also the consequence of being uncomfortable with stillness, or just being. If you can get more comfortable with not being stimulated then you will be more at peace when you are still. You will not feel bored. Incidentally, notice that no form of stimulation or excitement gives a lasting result. It always passes and you always end up back here.. bored. So you need to learn how to be comfortable with not being stimulated and just being with the present moment. That is the only way you will stop feeling boredom. Meditation is a great way to overcome boredom. The more you meditate the more you will crave stillness and appreciate not doing, more than doing.

I like this. Thank you, I'll take a closer look. On a similar note, I'm heading off to New Zealand in 7 weeks. It has always been on my bucket list and I intend to finally realise it. The world is a beautiful place and there is no time like the present to take time to appreciate it. For me it is my ultimate value. More so than success or achievement. The beauty of nature is timeless and unconditional. For me there is nothing beyond it and nothing more to want from life.

I think I would like to find somewhere beautiful in the middle on nowhere, far away from the 'chimpery' of society, maybe where there are mountains and forests, and just live out my time just 'being' with the beauty of it. Perhaps sharing that remaining time with someone who would also want to just be with it, and appreciate the beauty of it together. Edit to add: I might just do this anyway, eventually. After all, we never know how much time we have left. So why wait?

This quote comes to mind:

. There was nowhere in this moment that I could physically see my life's problems. No people, no money, no jobs, no success or achievement, no drama etc No life narrative. Just the scene as it was. What more is there to do in this moment other than to smile? and photograph it. It's funny, we take photographs to 'keep' moments in time. But after a while you realise that every photo is an equally beautiful moment in time. And in fact there is no need to 'keep' it, or have an album of moments. Just wait for the next moment...and the next moment. The very act of taking the picture detracts from the moment. I now try to appreciate more, and 'do' less. There will always be another moment that will make you smile and a photo is never as meaningful as the moment it self. Just appreciate it as it is, there is no need to 'capture' it.