Aakash

yes further inquiry into the nature of the true self , its not just enough to realise the true self. i get what your saying theres no other people everthing is itself , this is what i was trying to ask about truth. that there is a difference i tried listing the qualities of being or truth here what i came up with so far Being is truth Being is oneness Being is awareness Being Is being Being Is unconditional love Being is the present moment Being is complete and happiness Being is infinite Being is eternal this are what i was asking that i need to encorporate, it is itself and these facets of the whole was the answer i was looking for otherwise it would be ignorance , thanks.

@winterknight thats my point it doesn't make sense , either way i am aware, so i was just wondering why enlightened people so to speak live up to such high ordeals in their lifes, like not lying , or helping out others and being selfless. there must be a truth that they're trying to cling to that says that this is the way i must act because this is the truth. what are those boundaries for those people that define things, are they not fully realised or something. ultimately there is no such thing as embodiment of truth, only embodiment of high values and truths but this itself gives notion that there is someone trying to sustain these high values and truths. do you get where i'm coming from? is it to do with desire

i see thank you, that was helpful similarly what does it mean to live a life of truth? when everything of the mind is a self-deception or ego. does it mean to remain in silence ?

how do i become an enlightened master? do i have to give up living in illusion and embody it, i'm kinda confused about where to go next. i'm not searching for the knower, but trying to get an understanding of what are the truths that enlightened masters live by in a sense, because there are many falsehoods, but the knower is still the knower. so how does this make sense?

all religions do this, those devotees that devote themselves to the scriptures and act word for word instead of interpreting the underlying meaning, the underlying teaching of the truth are present in all religions, but yes your right it takes mystical experiences to understand brahman. it could be, but it's also very cultish in my opinion when harre krishnas are trying to convert people, like its their sworn mission i am only making assumptions and non tennable arguments but this is my perspective of it but yet again harre krishna the ones who understand also understand the true self which they call krishna again is an assumption

Reality is like a giant mind a mind in which your mind resides in, want to know what others things resides in this mind? space, time, happiness, love, murder, human body, perception, energy, dualism, jackie chan, the brain, the trees, basically anything that you can ever think of is included in this mind, EVERYTHING is a self-delusion, (note: everything states that there is more than one, there's not, there is only the one) The one its self is self-delusion. the infinite mind, sees no distinction of what humans create dualistic terms for, it is aware of itself because it is the only thing that exsist. but the way that the finite mind (human minds) percieves, the duality between exsistance and non exsistance is created, and so the definitions are not the same, they need to be recontextualised. the non dualistic term for exsist, is it the only that is real( exsist) period. consciousness/awareness/moksha/god/ allah/bhraman/ nothingness/emptiness is all that exsist, we can understand this in concept EASILY, but its not a conceptual thing, its A POINTER to how the infinite mind creates the illusion! YES illusion that ITSELF is a finite being, the way in which it does this is it has to identify or intentively create a seperate self by creating a boundary that does not exsist (thats where the word illusion really means). the finite beings created are us! TOM, DICK AND HARRY, the illusions are A) these are three seperate beings B) harry head is bigger than harry so he must be different C) tom, well tom has blue eyes these are daily distinctions we make everyday because we take it for granted that we are the same consciousness, individuating into seperate selfs. the deceptions go on and on from the moment they started from the start of human history, THERE WAS NO HUMAN BEING IN THE FIRST PLACE IN HISTORY! there was only awareness and will always be only awareness, human being is a concept. there has never been anything such as a human being, but in this giant mind! it allows for every delusion to be created simulataneously. so while i'm sitting here writting on my laptop i can create 10 new delusions, and you who's reading can create 15 new delusions all you have to do is use your mind to create self-deceptions lets do an experiment 1) wait 5 seconds and continue reading, how many thoughts have you created each one of those are self-delusions. those 10 and 15 delusions you created are exactly the same as creating a delusion of seperate self's called tom, dick and harry. THE INFINITE MIND is infinite, like one giant mind, creating delusion after delusion. THEN when someone has truthed a delusion for themselves, another individual will believe it because it's been proofed. There is only one truth that can be absolute that truth is: all there is: is ..... [ insert word here] or the true self all other things are delusions because they create distinctions of any kind, this also includes how to live life in a certain way.. there is no way to correctly live life, but that doesn't stop you enjoying the illusion and creating a good life for yourself. The mechanism that things come into reality are by delusion of seperate self, and that includes perception of a seperate subject. which will either be the subject or object. perception comes from our five senses , our five sense hear,see,sound,etc, etc.. ALL DECEPTIONS, AFTER DECEPTIONS, AFTER DECEPTIONS there is no seperate object to sense , it only seems that way because of the thoughts you have or knowledge, whats really happening is: the same awareness or consciousness is interacting with itself, its aware of itself, but not as any self, just the sentence ends at its aware of itself. The infinite mind can create literally anything, itself is has no form or internal design, the maya is none other than illusion but only as illusory as real can be Hope this clarifies some things for you, got any questions let me know.

@sleepyj i have reviewed my doubt, my mind got abit side tracked when we last spoke by the whole buddism tradition, but i'm certainly sure that the true self or eternal self is the one that i've found, its just so blindingly obvious that it just isn't recognised. I agree that compared to the method i used that the buddist tradition is more integrating and embodying of general pricipals and views for personal development, and as should be. However, the fact still remains is in truth you are what you are. I don't mean to say this in a hypothetical or dualistic way. I literally mean, the Self (I) is the self. even the actor who is the doubter is always still being experienced by someone/something, that very thing that can't turn its awareness on itself, to objectify it, because it is the awareness itself. rising up and coming out so to speak, (but even this is incorrect, its just what is here right here, right now) you don't need to tell the truth to find out who you are in other enlightenment methods, its just the underpinning foundation of the whole method. neither how you act or how you speak change the experience itself, it changes it better in dualistic sense , good vs bad, right vs wrong. these are all actions of the experiencing itself, they are still illusions created by the mind as a sense of self. i think the 10 fetters are there to be transcended all together, after i had a little thing about each one of them and them as a whole unit together. when you transcend it even for a momentary second, including the eight fold path and the four noble truths, all together you get a glimpse at what is already there. because the mind has grown silent and there is no talking. if you keep searching for something to happen, something miraculous. a new self to be born, consider this seeking will not result in you finding that truth. enlightenment is realisation not an event, and even realisation is used loosely so i don't even like that word anymore, i prefer the word used by rupert spira "remembering". getting masterful of the lifestyle is again integrated into the domain of buddahood, which it may not be in other systems. but the lifestyle itself does not change what you are again. it is a secondary layer, but the lifestyle ensure that you don't live a life of delusions, which must be taken seriously. however once again it does not change what you are. i myself am not completely resistant to delusion however, i'm adept enough to distinguish when a self-deception could be occuring and that is actually all the time. the only way to live a life completely without delusion is to join a zen monestry or any of those kind of things. because you sit in wakeful state all day and night. which is hardly possible in the west because we must communicate and use our minds. this is where you get masters of the lifestyle, and where right speech, or the eightfold comes in handy, still does not change what you are and that true self is pure awareness. (my favourite word i have decided for myself as god)

The key to meditation is there is no destination, you have to reliquish the dooer and you'll reach some of the deepest levels without remembering your old meditations. because theres no timespace! you have to be the awareness itself! everything has to be like its you experiencing it for the first time good luck

if i said its the very fact that you are aware, that is enlightenment. what would you say to me?

# the different degrees of knowing! # enlightenednotenlightened #roadtobuddahhood #excusemecaniorderonecupofthehighestconsciousnesspossible this is the biggest mindfuck i've ever come across in my life "how do you know that what you know is true"

YES enlightenment does solve all your problems just not the level of enlightenment that is easy to obtain you can start working on yourself now and make things better; but looking to solve your problems using enlightenment is not a practical solution to say the least. you'll be fishing in the ocean for a single fish. so i would just take the odds to use personal development work to solve your issue. but nonetheless it can help with understanding the problem of why you are suffering in more clear detail. overall the answer is both yes and no.

it is basically how to live a good life whilst awake, what have all of you decided to do with that awareness (ps. i know theres nothing to do really, i'm just curious about all your thoughts)

OMG thats actually the funniest thing, its the 2nd fetter aswell ! You my friend, have made me see so clearly today. dude theres only one way to find out which spiritual teacher found the deepest insight, you have to take all teachings WORLDWIDE to its pinnacles you can never know except in your direct experience whether buddah had reached perfect enlightenment. you can never know if there is a teacher who had a better consciousness but literally YOU as the awareness you are can never know unless you try everything out. to get the deepest flavour of knowing!

@winterknight yup okay totally agree with you. i didn't know the part about the advance development bit, and i totally am an exception. i did self-inquiry for 6 years and 4 of those years i didn't know i was doing it. so i can see how that happened thank you

@Leo Gura @sleepyj i think i've just realised that this is the whole problem with epistamology how do you know that what you know is truth you can't ever know, until all the questions you've ever thought about asking are answered. and even then how do you know you have asked all the questions what you know isn't absolute by any standards even if you say the truth has to be even if the truth hasn't been explored to its fullest degree how do you know the buddah experienced the highest consciousness or was he just a symbol for the fact that the highest consciousness is infinity how do you reach infinity and stop at infinity the answer is you don't. you can never know and thats why enlightened masters always refine their techniques.

will certainly update if i come across a crazy realisation or something. thank you for your help

@winterknight i totally agree with you, in a sense yes i am talking about a system like the eight fold path because self-inquiry doesn't ensure that you develop in this way. it ensures that you find the true nature of the self which is the buddah nature in my opinion. yes other hindu systems exsist, but how comes self-inquiry (the method itself, while doing it) isn't able to encorporate such values and beliefs. to me its pure direct cut to the truth. but enlightenment doesn't garuntee development or maturation of the self and the method of self inquiry does not either. where as the method of reaching your buddahood has it incorporated into the structure as a whole. i guess what i'm really asking if enligthenment is enlightenment without any distinction is the end of self inquiry the same as reaching buddahnature? or does it exclude the development in certain areas.

@sleepyj my brother; that was a classical piece of literature. i can't complain or argue with that. This is why the only solution for me was to seek out enlightened master, maybe this term means buddahood, and so i will accept that i am deluding myself for the time being. thats the things with degree of enlightenments that your not even sure where your at! thank you for this debate, i really enjoyed myself and getting to hear your points of view. do you have any questions to ask me?

@Joseph Maynor lol thats a good way to put it, but i'm not trying to use the language, i'm trying to point to the actual thing. so does that make it buddahood/ enlightenment is my question

sorry about that i'm done editting it

non duality = there is not two but one true nonduality = there is only [must be left blank because the word is only a pointer] words would include nothingness, emptiness, awareness, consciousness so true nonduality is the true self the true self is buddahood for me, the true self is the thing that you are, the only thing that is real in reality the thing that the one is made from without any distinctions being made what this thing is, is your true nature but you can know it to many degrees the different degrees are the different degrees of enlightenment nonetheless the way we define enlightenment as seekers is a realising or recognising of the true self the very thing that i am. to recognise it you have to quite the mind is this not buddahood?

i get why self inquiry is the royal road to enlightenment now; but theres one thing i don't get, why is it that even though enlightenment is finding the true self that self-inquiry enlightenment doesn't match up to buddahood in comparison terms? i agree you find the same awareness in both methods but buddhist traditions overall have a more structured embodiment system that you just can't get with self-inquiry what's your thoughts on this?

@sleepyj i would say i only have fetters 7 and 9 that get me, but even then its because i haven't read much about the fettas and understand them that this is only a quick judgement. and maybe recently with 8 because of my realisation itself. but my point still stands, i think you can become an enlightened individual without going to complete buddahood. buddhahood is a lifestyle in my opinion, sure the consciousness levels there are crazy high and in time with the present moment. but you can become enlightened on different level. still there must be one thing that holds enlightenment in place is the realisation of the self.

@Jkris they're basically categories of delusions that one can trance themselves in becoming attached to these delusions is what causes suffering and therefore the 10 fettas are about suffering and working your way through each fetter completely ensures that your delusion doesn't come back, because by its own nature its falsehood. reality is like an illusion creating machine so to speak, anything you think of with your mind will turn into an attachment and delusion will follow, even before the attachment the delusion comes the fetters destroy the mind and the illusion that is the mind and thats the end of individual self, well supposedly, because mind insinuates there is a seperate self. without a mind there wouldn't be thought, emotions, feelings, past , present , future, now, words, language, object , a subject, distance, time , space, attachment, duality. there wouldn't be any of this. revealing how the minds function works shed light on it. but becoming a mind without attachments is for masters of enlightenment

yes i have cleared the first fetter, many people on this forum have. personally, i have realised the true self. however, if i had to put it in fetters terms, no way have i cleared many of the fetters and still ignorance will get me at many turns. but either way in the end the delusion is still a delusion and the self remains the self ... hence the reason i wrote this post on how to become an enlightened MASTER. i haven't embodied the values really well on my journey, still remanents of the self remain but i don't doubt that i have realised buddah nature so to speak. maybe that makes me a bodisattva. question: can you explain the 2nd fetter to me.