Aakash

@Highest so does sadghuru still feel fear, isn't bliss meant to stop all of these things from happening, when you bring the true self- back through your human self after seeing everything as one god like do you experience anger and sadness. or should i say does becoming anger and sadness, still happen to you

the belief being able to bring up god in your direct experience after you disidentify with body, mind, brain,atoms, beliefs, and identify with the awareness of activities happening but i havent had experience outside of this,

but my point is, now that i bare witness to it these anxieties shouldnt arise in my body-mind/sensations even if i am witness to it, does the sensations still appear inside you for example

@Preetom i - never came into existence I - cant be represented as existant / non existent and can't be explained with time , it is the only thing there is in eternity. so there is no comparison one can make to it which is no existant because there's no-thing seperate from it

@Highest fear of the unknown, sometimes social anxiety because i think differently to the people around me, addictions, fear of embarrrassment, fear of failure human is a concept which is why i'm saying its a belief all of it, the whole of reality as humans know it is a belief , but thats what i mean so all the truths belonging to the human consciousness are false,

@Mu_ i cant at the moment, my human identification belief is in the way, so i won't be able to understand what true love is, i am just making sure i am not trapping myself in delusion. but if i'm being genuine from what i've gathered so far expeirences included: all i can say is love IS

the reason is because i wanted to let the flow from the true self, flow through my human body. but reality is love, so i wanted to know whether it was an emotion that i needed to exhibit in my human form 24/7, that would represent infinite love, but i guess this is not the case

@FoxFoxFox you can stop the i thought and stop identifying with everything but how can you be so sure the human body you exhibit will be purified aswell ? getting rid of the i-thought to me, is i am the one that is aware of what is going on and the storyline of the person is left by itself to infinite intelligence. so it is the "I" WHICH is a belief that is the one identifying and needing to create a finite ground, but this is not truth. isn't that basically what the fettas in buddism are they are purifying you because your nature is automatically unconsciously being shift to i-true self and the facets of god that is love, intelligence, peace , etc

@Leo Gura so one i have observed so far in the past 2 hours is: i tend to look sexual at the female sex within my age category on the train, more specifically hindu/ indian females, my current understanding of this is because its reactionary to the belief that a neccessary part of survival as mating and marriage, but again this only a belief on a human level when you identify with true nature, this belief as well as all human identified beliefs go, when you bring this back through your human form, its not an absolute so it won't carry over in your desires another one was: using humour to make it seem okay that i never done the group work properly for my group presentation assignment today: i just done it an hour ago, but i didn't want the group to let them know i let them down and that i basically focused really on my consciousness work and only done my bit for 30 minutes last night when i had 3 months to do it. the survival mechanism was deceit in a subtle way because i never really lied i guess, i just said i did the work, so this is belief of fear, and social acceptance and not being humiliated/ the reason why the group might have done bad so i would categories marriage as a survival need in social norms but these all stem from a single belief and that is that i am human and limiting your identity there so how would you deal with these after observing them, youd find the belief and you would eliminate it with the absolute and according to foxfox this happens automatically as soon as your enlightened but i don't understand how that occurs really and plus i still think that neurosis and false beliefs can still exist within enlightened people, and the only way to stop it is to go all the way to the end and embody truth itself because youll stop identifying with humans, i would say like people like to point out that alan watts was still an alcoholic even though he knew the truth. so there's a clear process. you said" Into this are tied all of your thoughts, beliefs, opinions, attitudes, behaviors, emotions, reactions, knowledge" but to me thoughts are beliefs, opinions are beliefs, attitudes are beliefs, behaviours are beliefs , emotions are beliefs , reactions are beliefs, knowledge is beliefs everything is belief except the absolute, i don't take away the importance of them for survive purposes but the beliefs ALL stem from the belief of identification of "i" human.

@Leo Gura would it be safe to say that watching it like an owl and then doing the opposite thing automatically, no matter how counter-intuitive after some consideration into what kind of survival mechanism it is. do you personally have a categorisation of survival mechanisms or is this what you intended when you did your self-delusions 3 part series

@Jkris the solutions, is to understand your psychology and the beliefs you carry, then identification will slowly detach form them. the only way to get over traumas is to realise whatever you thought about the situation was wrong. i.e "my life will never be good again after this", 5 years later - life gets better from the individual perspective 10 years later - "ohh my life is good again" ofcourse its not as simple as i make it sound, but the mechanisms behind it are still true the problems with traumas is you have beliefs, on beliefs stacked upon each other and many of those beliefs carry with them an ethical consideration which makes it clear black and white because most people have moral compassing.

@Arhattobe identification of thought is only one component, identification is more broad than that, it is really identifications to beliefs that i'm trying to expo-say. i'm literally talking about everything you believe in is a lie, until you get to absolute realms because whatever you've thought of from the beginning is a lie because you thought of it from human identification.

@leo i see so is it an overstatement to state that all beliefs boil down to a sense of identification, i'm majorly deconstructing my beliefs system now because once again everything i knew to be true before is false AGAIN, there's so much about enlightenment that i didn't take into account because i was fantasising about it from the perspective of a identified human being, now i've had the chance to compare between the absolute human being, lets call it for reference sake. its only shown me how much more there is to deconstruct, deeper - especially my view on enlightenment. however, if it all comes down to identification that can save me a lot of time, because i can just extricate myself from the equation.

i think that just once in a while we all on this forum need to take a moment and appreciate how far we've all come and how much progress we have all made no matter how small since we all started our journey its true that this is a long and gruelling process, a lot of strong emotions and up and down periods thats why we should all congratulate ourselves for the work we have each done on ourselves and the better people we have come by understanding greater truths about reality you know, you might be in a position of confusion and feel like everything is hopeless at times but you have to consider that even that is progress. so congrats to all of us and keep on pushing for higher truths and the aims and goals that each of us have

@Serotoninluv lol dude, you should be teaching the people in the forum what stage turqouise teachings, i can never understand stage turqouise and its next on my development, its trans-rational but what the hell is the boundaries and justifications of what a stage turqouise teaching is outside of ANYTHING to do with enlightenment techniques its clear that joseph doesn't know what turquoise techniques are

i mean is belief really a stage blue quality because most people are blieving in leo's teaching instead of varifying with logic and ration and critical thinking. do you qualify this as stage blue?

the aim here is not to raise your conscious levels through spiral dynamics but to become straight enlightened, which may or may not include personal development work, even enlightened beings can have shadows, they just don't identify with it. you can become enlightened at any stage in the spiral, it just helps a tiny bit if you progress up the spiral.

@Joseph Maynor i personally don't think he cares about raising consciousness, more just pointing out where people went wrong when they ask for help. its alot to manage the direction of the forum and his own awakening work. but i don't really think this sub forum is typically self development work because its about enlightenment, so even spiral stages don't work here. being a devotee doesn't make you blue in a sense but makes you capable of enlightenment lol, but if your talking about self-development work then yeah there is a stage blue and stage orange forum typically in other sub-forums

@Joseph Maynor LOL maybe people just aren't critical thinkers and methodical by nature, hence there is a path of devotion.

LOL how did you come to this conclusion?

i'm never going to understand turquoise, what the hell does this even mean

@Vingger when you are able to get longer times in between thinking, you will realise that you are aware, the problem is that the attachment to the identification of being human, brain , mind, body is something that is programmed in us from young is so strong, we don't quickly arrive at the fact that we are aware, because the idea never comes to us until you have spent time quieting the mind and this is the practice of meditate and self-inquiry aswell as the other techniques for example, if you the "you" that you think and know that you are currently is the belief in between the gap so a frog thought does i need food, i need water, and in between its subconscious is "i am a frog" it doesn't know that the truth of the matter that this is only a belief and therefore it won't consider wait maybe i am consciousness having an experience of being a frog. humans have this ability to be conscious of their actions and so they are able to self-inquire. between two perceptions is also the same, between opening your eyes and closing your eyes or between breaths you are that awareness who is going i am human, that person looks amazing, i need food, and in the gaps are subconsciously adhering to the belief you are a human and that's why you don't notice the awareness

chain 1: a-b-c-d } hybrid chain 1 and chain 2 chain 2: a-b-c-d this is the interconnectedness of reality, you can't not have chain ideas like this but the problem is leo isn't clear about how his video's the chains in them are all interlinked and this is where people are left believing instead of understanding that because in chain 2 b causes c that leads to c causing d to also be true in chain 1 and therefore you get the hybrid chain which is "truth" or reality as we can understand it as human consciousness this also applies to logic in general when debating between two people if their chains are linked differently, then the words used to explain how c and d link for chain 1 in a particular topic can be completely different meaning to the chain 1 that links c and d together in another participants and this is why i say that examples will help get a more equal ground.

interesting... how do you mean i too think this is the problem that causes people to pick up beliefs, i've done four years of solo contemplation before i knew actualised.org even existed so when i think of leo's lessons, i've already gone and thought through most of the causation chains, with one or two parts missing that leo's gives me to finish it off. that's how i verify it against my own experience and understanding of reality. for some people they are starting their casuation chain fresh or with little examples to understand the dynamic lesson being taught. for example if a leads to be leads to c which means birds are blue if i get told birds are blue straight without understanding how a causes b causes c then i won't understand why birds are blue

the free flowing ideas of thoughts i think that people are too simple with their arguments and debates, they don't back their claims up with examples and metaphors for the other people to understand. they simply say it with the expectation that the other receipients will automatically change their minds, i understand the topics are nuanced but a lot of the debates i've seen are people trying to prove the other person wrong. which is healthy, its just simply stated and not backed up with examples give examples and metaphors for your debates