B_Naz

I don't exactly know if this is allowed on the forums. I don't want to make a debate if islam is true or not, I'm just currently studying all religions as part of growing my awareness of religions and ancient wisdom. If this is not allowed on the forums, please kindly stop the thread So as I said, I am studying religions and that includes Islam. I have got myself an english translation (Saheeh International Translation) and I am doubting myself about this study. I have heard a lot about the Quran. The Quran is supposed to be ONLY in Arabic, and must also be recited, in a certain way. It must be listened so the words can play with you and show you the Truth. I have also heard that the translations by Quran may not be accurate in terms of content and won't actually grasping the idea of Allah. So... is there even worth the time to actually study the Quran from a western perspective? I don't think I can learn Arabic, or have the time to go to a scholar and talk about verses. The main reason I'm scared to go to Imams or teachers of Islam is that it will be a interpretation of THEIR Islam I can understand most of the content, but I cannot get the mystical experience from Islam

@Xiatma yeah, I think the translations won't be a problem. I can always find other translations to get a reliable understanding

Sorry for the late reply here @sarapr This is very true! It's why I am attracted to the Quran. There are some verses from my favorite chapter, The Cow. These connected with me "And believe in which I have sent down confirming that which is [already] you" 2:41 - We are already God and there is mystery to seek for "Then your heart become hardened after that, being like stones or even harder" 2:74 - Allah is love, turn against love and your heart will suffer There are tons of beautiful verses but as well as some bad ones. But I haven't reached to those parts yet... @Dodo Yeah... I'm guilty of this. I will take your advice tbh. taking way too seriously @non_nothing I think I'm going to try this out, even though it's going to make the reading much longer but I guess I have to if I truly want to explore Islam @SoonHei Hopefully I'll get to that realisation with studying all of the religions I had serious doubts about just quitting this book. I think I'm going to keep on reading and open my heart to Allah as the Quran suggests. These are the instructions, so guess I need to follow them. Doubt I will believe in Quran's version of Allah but I know I will gain some serious wisdom. Thank you all, and please keep on giving advice for reading the book

And the way I do this is by questioning why they believe or follow these. There must always be a reason for an illusion to exist. When you research why it exists, then you can just drop it. Very good point dude

@PhilGR You could say that... But it's good to go even deeper with what you're seeing. Right now, you see all of these ideas and you become tired of these. That's happening right now, but that's only YOU. You get tired from all of this but what about the bigger picture? Why do these illusions exist? Is there a reason? When you see a religious person, you can question their belief but do you question WHY they actually believe in it? Have you ever gave the thought that this person may have directly experienced God and thus believes in Him?

It's an illusion debating with another illusion about an illusion. But question, why is the illusion here in the first place? Is there a special plan for the illusion to exist?

Do meditation in the morning, before you do anything. You will be more focused. Try to be aware of what's actually happening. Are you creating an addiction to whatsapp? Also it's not that you get lower consciousness from whatsapp but more about what you're doing right now, in the moment. You should be conscious AT ALL times, when eating, when talking to friends, when doing anything, you should be completely aware of what is happening. The action isn't what causes the lower conscious but it is what you do that creates the lower. Question why your consciousness goes lower when looking at whatsapp? Is your mind easily distracted? If so then question it, WHY. Is there something missing in your life?

I would say it's your ego just making up excuses. Nothing is impossible. Even if you lived in the most shittest, worst, and toxic environment, it is still your own responsibility to make the best out of your life.

Personally, I don't think so. There are other ideas and direct experiences to see other than ego death like intelligence of the universe, which Leo goes really deeply into. There's more to enlightenment because enlightenment is infinite! Don't take my word for it though, see for yourself This is a good point actually. I haven't personally dived into scientific perspectives of ego death. Howverr there has been studies on psychedelics and ego death. Here's the first link I found on LSD and ego death https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.livescience.com/54399-why-people-on-lsd-lose-themselves.html But I don't know any study or reports on ego death with pure meditation.

Science is great. You shouldn't always follow blindly teachers and such. You should question what they say, which is what you're doing and so that's good. Science currently is flawed because scientists today are very aggrogant and close minded, so I would suggest doing your own research and even your own experiments Nobody can really tell you what enlightenment is. This is a misconception of enlightenment. What you described is ego death. The person being insulted has no ego, has no identity and has no values. This means that the person who is insulting the "enlightened" person is actually insulting nobody. There is nobody to insult Don't pursue enlightenment to stop suffering. Persue it for the sake of pursuring

Same. I talk to myself It's why I chew gum, so it looks like I'm normal Also, I sometimes move my mouth but make no noise in public. I see it as another way of thinking just as @sarapr said, it's a lot easier Some even say talking to yourself boosts focus and high cognitive functioning. I know for a fact that this is true for me. https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-minute-therapist/201712/do-you-talk-yourself

I've read a lot of what people write about actuality v conceptual understanding and that conceptualising is considered a bad habit because it's mental masterbaution We live in the conceptual life. Our total experience is conceptual. When I see the world, I see conceptuality. If the concept is true, then it is actual Actuality IS conceptuality. Just because i see my hand, it doesn't mean I'm seeing it. I think I see it, But what is seeing?? Our entire existence IS IMAGINERY. it's conceptual. My mind, thought, experience is conceptual? I guess I'm not far gone and secluded? Am I wrong?

@Serotoninluv Thank you, i feel a little alone (another concept lol) with these ideas in my when I observe people's answers on the forums. But It is very fun. I think I may misinterpreting what people sometimes say on the forums @Shiva Ahh... You are right, What you say is true, but one of the most profound ways doing actually stopping the doing is observation. This links with conceptualisation because the observation can lead to conceptualising. It's why I strongly follow it. I will take all people's input into consideration. You are all 100%, just need to contemplate Thank you all

Of course, when I mean misguided, I mean I'm going in the wrong direction, not as a teacher. At the end of the day, all Truths are equal to One. Thank you for your kind words. I will observe because a concept cannot be Truth! You're right, it is a whole different topic but conceptual understanding is not the Truth. The Truth is everything, the ego, the concepts, the non-duality, the duality, everything is Truth. The religions are true, the observation of actuality is Truth in one way or another What makes conceptualisation different is that you can see why everything is Truth

I'm not saying you shouldn't do this exercise. You should definitely but without conceptualising or seeing the false of the hand, it's just awareness Really? I mean, I've never seen any danger in understanding the world, is there something I need to avoid?

It's only a mistake if you believe in the concepts, without seeing the truth behind the concepts. We are living in the dream world because our entire reality is created by my mind. I can say that because that is something I've observed and experimented with. With science, there are concepts/models that we can apply to things. There isn't actually "particles" in the universe but we applied a model/concept in order to understand them. To see the falsehood behind the solid/physical universe Yes! This is true!!! Concepts allow awareness onto the falsehood of our reality. It's why I follow them so strongly, because I have seen some falsehood in our reality. I can say it's false because I have experimented, questioned, and observed what the concept represents and I do this every meditation, every moment (or try to at least) I don't understand why people are against conceptualising. If you're just looking at the hand, you may realise that the hand is right there, in your direct experience but without conceptualising this hand, you're only looking, not seeing what is false about the hand. What is the experience? You need to conceptualise to understand what the experience is! What I have to agree with Leo about this subject of the hand is that you will eventually see that nobody is looking at the hand. There was no hand and there is no you looking. This is ACTUALITY. There was nothing there in the first place But that cannot be achieved by just "looking" at the hand or actuality. You got to see what you're looking at, and how you're experiencing everything I still feel lost and misguided though...

I understand this completely. What's fucking me up is this... My current stance is that We can not see the Truth because there is nobody to see it? We're just a concept, there's no seeing, there's only Truth. We are only concepts in this reality, that's all we ever was. This makes sense to me because all concepts I have thought about is true in actuality (to me). Psychological time can stop, but you cannot it. Who said you can? Who came up with this idea? Only by concept. I'm not really asking for the truth but the question of validity in conceptualising

This is the exact way I see reality but see, what you said is conceptual AND actuality. My mind is filtering, my mind is making labels, that's all conceptual but it's happening in the ACTUAL. I can observe these and I can literally see myself making labels and judgements. So why is it that this conceptualising is the cause of suffering as most people suggest as well as bringing me back down Perfect. This is true This is something I need to realise Right now. I just feel really lost and don't know anything anymore.

This is something I just can't seem to do. I think I've completely convinced myself that I am just a concept and my thoughts are a concept. If I were to stop, then I am just the non-dual universe, to stop conceptualising IS conceptualising. My entire EXISTENCE, what I call awareness, what I seek, what I am is just a concept! I haven't seen awareness, I haven't felt awareness, I don't want to read bullshit's people on awareness because THAT ITSELF is a concept. It's nothing but a concept! It's a concept in reality. There is no escape in conceptuality, is there? How can it not be useful though? You deal with death, you deal with life, you deal with suffering, you deal with acceptance, fulfillment, whatever. You don't need to use conceptualisation but you conceptualise because it's a way to understand why we suffer, why we are this way. Here, I am talking about the "you", the identity, the ego. it stops our heads from hurting. This helps with all of the "problems" we have. "What are we without our problems" - Mooji @Rilles This is why I don't see conceptualising as a bad thing? Is this for security or a release from pressure? Seeing is already happening. We see EVERYTHING. But we ATTACH to things. We attach to our thoughts, and apply meaning to the seeing. Seeing is just seeing, BUT WHO SEES. Is seeing a sensory? We need to conceptualise to SEE.

Well, with the questioning of the self, you have to explore that yourself. But you have a good start, you're resisting because the self doesn't like it, but why? Keep going deeper. Only you can answer that yourself If you question about why you have to like your life, that shows real progression. Life isn't about liking, or hating it but living it. You're actually starting to see the bigger picture. What you are truly apart of. Some say it's because you are living in "psychological" time, that is created by thoughts which are expressions of memory, and sensory inputs from the environment. The thoughts cling onto themselves, and clings on what is the known. The known for you is that you exist as an individual who is separate from the universe. Essentially, you're living in the past because the thoughts are only formations by the memory-knowledge-experience :@ This is why you are scared as well. You are scared that you won't have any pleasure/security in the future, so every movement is an afraid step in the moment. The thought doesn't like that. The self can also be considered as a thought/identity that is formed in it's own accumulation Again, this is what some people say. In actuality, you have to see for yourself You can unconditionally love everything You can open up your love since love is a outcome of the opening of the heart. Once it's opened, can't close it. Got no choice but to love Just question the hell out of that fear. Why the fuck are you scared of picking up that COFFEEEEEEE

I feel like the interaction is nice though. It's a way to be aware of what our ego is doing in it's present moment by seeing how others react. It allows me to relate to their situation, like with this topic on visualisation. Of course, it can have the complete opposite affect but that's on the seeker

@SoonHei Very valid point Something i want to add onto this... Sometimes when you don't know what you want, the things you want can be disguised. So even tho you may not care about the nice house, when you end up with a shitty house, it can be create conflict. It's because you never wanted that shitty house but were too occupied with why you don't want anything It's really a question of wanting. If you don't want anything, then it means that you're in a state of not wanting. So you wouldn't want that shitty house anyway, but may not even realise it. Also, negative turns into positive but that depends on the person, if they react to negativity. But that's an assumption that I made, my apologises with the question with do want vs do not want, isn't that what the Ego essentially is? You say it's all images and visualisation, which can be true but why are the visualisation and images occur in the first place?

I actually use pictures that I find online to match my ambition. I have a page in my journal that has images of what I want (or something close to it) and have a little paragraph/sentence below it to remind myself what the image is supposed to represent With the question of what to visualise, I have had this issue. But @Nahm told me one piece of advice (correct me if this isn't what you meant) and it stuck with me... it's not all about what you want, it's about what you don't want as well. You don't want to live in a shitty house, you don't want shitty relationships, you don't want anxiety, or to be nervous. Look for what you don't want too

Yessss. This is a very nice way to keep it simple when talking about doing. So we have to use awareness to see the doing. I am now understanding what you mean now when talking about disguising Indeed, you do see the Doing being disguised.

This is where it gets tricky. If you try and describe what is a doing, that is your own version of a doing. If you try and describe doing, you are doing the doing by saying that doing is since... Conceptually, doing is the action of putting values, meanings, judgement and such onto the "raw" universe (my own version of it). How can you trust your mind to know what a doing is. This is only TRUE to my mind. How can I trust myself? Is there a such thing as OBJECTIVITY