electroBeam

Thats right I am Relatively speaking what i just got from your writing is different to what you meant. Just have to keep that in mind lol. Im not interpreting you correctly. And yeah you might actually be wrong as a person on an even more relative level lol.

Awesome thanks! Definitely got some insights there on how i could approach things differently both relatively and absolutely.

I'm personally fine to go without the clarification, although you're free to ask if you feel drawn to. I sort of got a gist that truth seeking/science is an art, not a discovering truth exercise, whether forestluv meant that or not.

Yeah but unless im mistaken Forestluv is talking about some grandfather version of relativity that goes to the absolute level or is so relative you cant call it relative. So saying that the universe is infinite love is relative in a sense. Not saying he's implying that, im just trying to illustrate the magnitude.

Yep agree there. What's got me stuck is the impression that me saying Qannon is incorrect because of X Y Z (all of which are well thought out and relarively true) to a Qannon follower is me building my house and getting him to debate my details. It doesnt feel like I'm building my house there, because my relative truths should be shared between me and him. The idea that its not goes against everything i stand for LOL. Likewise debating that an ego doesnt exist because of X Y Z (which are all knowing/verified/absolutely true knowings or becoming conscious of or accesses of truth) is me building my house and debating my personal details that has no universal appreciation for others is mind boggling to me. Even if others are imaginary. Or to say that Qannon is bullshit while people did land on the moon is saying one painting is better then the other, or saying that when we die we go to heaven vs we cant die because theres no ego is saying 1 painting is truer then the other is super mind boggling. Because theres obviously stuff that feels better and feels worse. And theres things that are more productive then other stuff, and there is a better way to live while there is a worse way to live. There is doing and saying wise stuff vs saying dumb stuff. And i dont have any evidence other than intuition. But i thought everyone's intuition is the same. If it feels good to me, it should feel good to you. That not even being true is incomprehensible to me, which is why i mentioned 5 meo. But at the same time i think theres something to it so I'd say "value" is leaning more on the beneficial side atm.

Awesome thanks! I guess i dont see value in that mindset because i still prefer or even strongly value relatively and absolutely true things over false ones(like lying vs telling the truth) but i guess thats because i haven't done a month of 5 meo lol.

Yeah i had a dream one night where i noticed truth always stayed the same but ehat changed was our energetic state, and all these expressions of no ego or ego or infinity or all that stuff was just a conceptual side effect of the change of the energetic state. So trump knows as much about the truth as ramana, yet his low energetic state describes itself(or the side effects/smoke of his energetic state is) as ego, i am a person, etc. Im not convinced that awakenings actually make you know more then you previously did.

I laughed at that first sentence . I wonder what a conversation with you and your grandparents are like "trump is the only one sticking up for freedom unlike that turncoat Biden!" "I like that imagery aswell". I bet you liked the imagery above too. I think relativism is very valuable on a cognitive level. When talking about political, environmental and sociological issues, a tamed amount of relativism mixed with an assertive direction based on intuition or "common sense" tends to be very valuable when solving problems, because you can get the best outcome that everyone is happy with. Assuming that you recognise a difference between solving survival problems and seeking truth(recognise a difference between growing up and waking up) I'd say there are significant differences that seem to be missing. With truth on the other hand, we are seeking the One here, its absolute rather than relative. Its not really a process of figuring out the most compensating perspective to help solve a survival problem, it's pointing to whats true regardless of how much it solves a problem or whether others like it or not. Adding in compensation hinders the waking up process because truth isnt about survival. Everyone does come to different conclusions about what truth is. Some think its nothing, some think its love, some think its machine elves, some think its science. However Truth is absolute, and because its absolute, there's got to be only 1 definite answer to what it is. If there wasn't, then truth would be relative and not absolute. So im not saying everyone must come up with the same answer, but surely when talking about truth(as opposed to everything else under the sun such as relationships, politics, actualizing, etc) those that are sincere about it would all agree that the process and how truth seeking is conducted is done in a manner where truth isnt something were anything goes on a relative level, but where there's a definite answer to it, and while we all disagree, such disagreement is really just an indication that either one of us hasn't nailed down what the truth is, rather than because the truth is pluralistic and relativistic in nature. So I'd say I dont really see the beauty or value or wisdom in taking a relativistic approach to truth seeking like saying "i like that imagery too" surely an acknowledgement of absolute/1 answer is much more appropriate. And a push to find blind spots is what should be done in a purely truth seeking context. Although if you have a different take, I'd be interested in knowing.

IME the ego is totally different. The ego literally doesn't exist, a unicorn is more real than an ego, at least a unicorn is a manifestation of thought, ego cant be said to be that because you have never seen it before, or felt it, or become conscious of it. Its sort of like how astronomers know how black holes exist, they use the movements of planets and stars, and based on those movements determine that a black hole exists - yet no one has actually seen directly a black hole. Thats what all of you guys are doing, you've never ever seen or felt an ego, yet using all these surrogate measures to determine it exists. I also dont abscribe to the ego vs no ego duality, that would be a misunderstanding of what im saying. To abscribe to such a duality there would have to be a phenomena of "no ego" to prove that no ego is true. Im not even saying no ego is a thing or is true. To prove that there is no ego, you'd first have to prove that there was an ego, so that you knew what was missing in the no ego construct. Im not even saying that because we dont even know what an ego is in the first place. Its like saying do machine elves exist in the 3D world... well that doesnt make sense because machine elves are from higher dimensions. Not only does an ego not exist, but you've never known what an ego truly is. You're just guessing like those astronomers. And how valuable are those guesses? Debatable. An ego is a temporary construct? Lol has that actually been verified? When did you observe a false sense of self being a temporary construct?

Bahahahaha the bottom right pick was me and my ex. Definitely there's nothing more fun then playing with peoples minds.

I've just realized this attitude has lead to deep exhaustion to the point where I'm getting rashes all over my body. I guess theres 2 sides to every coin

Or maybe trying to become deeply conscious, instead of enjoying the game, is just a spiritual rebranded form of the hedonic treadmill

Forestluv already commented on the relative truth behind spiritual talent but i wanted to comment more on a sociological level. I totally get the feeling good aspect of spiritual talent. Spiritual talent might make some feel like they are better then others on an egoic level which is obviously a problem and where i think most of your reaction is sourced from. Yet it stops feeling like you're better then others when you take a more unitive identification to reality, and acknowledge you are every human on the planet, and the current human you're living through now is temporary and impermanent. Then you'd be hoping that everyone is spiritually talented or that spiritual talent is infinite rather than finite. Because for sake of argument, you might reincarnate into the most unspiritually talented person on the planet in your next life if it is finite. Spiritual talent actually becomes a bitter pill to swallow then some feel good egoic mechanism once you grasp the finite ness of it. From a unitive perspective it actually becomes deeply selfish to not take the acknowledgement of spiritual talent seriously, because you're neglecting the unique needs and unequal challenges of others. Its like a billionaire saying capitalism is the way to go because everyone is equal. Well no not everyone is equal because of racism, class, genetic illnesses, genetic predispositions, etc. And by saying everyone is equal you are selfishly denying the actual unequalness of what others go through and therefore prevent true means of attempting to make things equal(like curbing racism, implementing aspects of socialism, etc). In a similar way but not acknowledging spiritual talent, you dismiss the unequal challenges of less spiritually talented people and therefore prevent opportunities to help make spirituality more equal(like adding psychedelics) Acknowledging spiritual talent is actually an empathetic mechanism.

This isnt a spiritual talent thing, this is an awakening thing. Awakenings change your paradigm as radically as reincarnation. Nahm keeps saying "The infinite cannot know the finite" and that is a good saying. You cant wake up and still remember what its like before awakening. Its not how it works. You literally reincarnated. @Leo Gura Whenever i read your posts you give off the vibe that psychedelics are some revolutionary magic pill far more effective then meditation, gurus and everything else. Is this your position? Im really curious, and struggling to see how your experiences on psychedelics are so profound and what makes it more profound then sober. I'd love if you could explain more. Sober feels to me more grounded, and crystal clear. Sober is as clear as you'll get. Psychedelics always adds in spatial distortions and makes your mind go hyperactive and just makes things unnecessarily spooky and nuts. Like a needless alice in wonderland. The other thing is, its a memory. And memories are highly distorted. Sober is now and clear. And you come down. All insights, awakenings were sober. I dont know what ya talking about with psyches. In my personal experience, i took 4 mescaline trips, each with 1 metre of cactus, and all trips were highly mild. I then took 3 ayahuasca trips(high doses) and again trips were highly mild. I then took about 30 grams of peganum harmala in frustration and had a powerful trip but no ego death and barely any breakthrough. No dmt machine elf entities, and it was only scary because i didnt expect peganum harmala to be a psychedelic of itself and had work in 8 hours of taking it. I really resonate with Ralston on psychedelics and see where he's coming from. And im not spiritually talented either so i resonate with him on a normal human level, not on a unique brain chemistry level.

But Good isn't different to being fucked up. Good includes being fucked up. Or thats what it seems forestluv would say based on his earlier comments

just posting here to make sure you dont think your dream friends you created are rejecting you

yeah you oldies still stuck on AM, have a good sleep

excellent! That's what I was pointing to before, great work, really glad for you!

Ok then, my bad. I misunderstood your situation. I thought you were a humanities academic who takes psychedelics recreationally. If you're actually someone in a psyche ward, or you're half someone in a psyche ward, teach part time, or something like that, I apologies because I was being harsh saying you were exaggerating. Just keep in mind I'm not taking about theory, I'm talking about actual psychotic experiences. But I can definitely see how such psychosis would seem like a walk in the park compared to more extreme spiritual practices like what you've done. Its not like I havent experienced anything you're talking about, I got banned remember partially(or at least in relation) to such experiences you're pointing to. Well I try to be (including in this dialogue) as honest as possible, and just share things which deeply feel right to me. I simply said you were exaggerating because there were inconsistencies between your previous posts and these posts, that I knew for sure because I read them. I had no intention of projecting beyond that inconsistency, because anything beyond that was unknown to me. Now that I know more, I'll react differently next time. I try to be(and believe I did) very conservative when it comes to projecting what other people experience, their situation, and capabilities of consciousness. And my previous comment about avoiding trauma was just my experience I was sharing, I wasn't trying to project anything onto you. If you're so traumatized that my comment sounds absurd, I totally agree with you partially, because I have been in places where I needed to take a break off psychedelics because I was about to loose my job, sanity, everything if I continued(almost did, I stopped going to work for 2 weeks and just lived in the bush without a tent and camping gear without giving them noticed, would never post that experience here because I would get banned like the other time). I was just expressing one perspective out of many for sharing, not trying to say that particular perspective is absolute or better then yours. I'm super curious about your experiences, and would love if you shared more. The very few you have shared are fascinating to me, super fascinated about getting the ego again one. I wont judge at all if that triggered you, I've messaged you privately in the past on similar lines. Although I have a feeling that you don't want to share those experiences beyond just people judging you.

@Someone here so maybe you're finally ready to admit that the boogey man is as real as your bed?

I was being literal. You said you are in the psyche ward for the rest of your life because of that experience. That's incorrect because you're an academic, and you're talking on here. Ff you're being metaphorical, then that's on you to explain, because I can't read your mind. I'm not trying to devalue your experience, but if you aint willing to go insane, get schizophrenic and psychotic symptoms, you aint discovering the truth. That's factually correct for almost everyone (except the deeply spiritually talented).

You're not in a psyche ward, so you're exaggerating Avoiding traumatic experiences is a loosing game in this work, because for as long as we're finite(not fully awake) we will be forever exploring and expanding, and there's absolutely no guarantees that a particular expansion will be 100% safe. For you to discover the truth, it might be that insanity or trauma is necessary. If you avoid it, you'll forever be avoiding what you want to seek, and if you're avoiding a particular expansion, then you'll be depressed until you finally take the leap into being or discovering it. And even beyond that, truth is not bound to feeling good or particular states or avoiding trauma. Truth is a scientific inquiry into how the world works, and we aren't practicing good truth seeking if we only discover truth that we like. Yeah im sure that was traumatic for you (clearly not enough to send you forever to a psyche ward otherwise you wouldnt be an academic) but truth is to be discovered independent of how traumatic it is. I'm sure that seeing how a me is 'born' would have been so insightful and extremely profound, even if the process was absolutely devastating mentally. What's really the point of life other then discovering? Is the point really to avoid trauma? Is that really going to hold up in the long run? Satisfy you in the long run? Eventually you'll get sick of avoiding trauma and discover what the truth is. edit: I'm feeling pretty proud of myself for not getting into a psyche ward yet lol. Worst I've been is the emergency ward over a panic attack. Can't believe how many on here report going to psyche wards. They could be exaggerating though, who knows.

I'd actually want to experience that because I'm super curious about how one goes to 2. How we got here so to speak.

oh but that's inevitable isn't it? Isn't the only point of this work to reach points quicker then you'd normally would?

unless you take psychedelics. Every rule gets broken eventually