Preety_India

@remember That should be addressed separately under dating difficulties for men and women in a patriarchal culture. It's not like women don't face it. I am scared to go on Indian dating website because of an unsafe environment. Thus even i face issues in such a structure not just men. But let's not use this to distract from the topic of rape

@Harikrishnan good to know

@remember this is a thread about rape. A woman's survival, her most basic right being in danger. I think he can discuss his dating woes later. I think when a man is trying to bring up his cultural issues when a woman is trying to discuss her problems is like deflecting and downplaying her issues by mixing his issues into it. Maybe it's not his intention to distract but it does reasonably appear that way

@Parththakkar12 Patriarchy affects women more than it affects men. I think this is obvious. If it is so dangerous for man's survival, they would have gotten rid of it very swiftly.

In a male dominated society it is very easy to say "hey woman, why don't you go out there and speak up, why don't you stand up, I know that you can fight for your own so I won't support you" What a cop out. Fully knowing that women protesting and fighting back will achieve very little in an environment dominated by men. Just another way of mocking and challenging women and victimizing them when they can't fight enough Where is the man??? He has zero role?? Wow. @Serotoninluv was making a good point on the thread about the male role in this situation. But his point was constantly being diverted and ignored So much for supporting your daughter?

@Chakra Lion I align a lot with many of your posts. Your views are very similar to mine. I'm more stage green. And I like that. I always think spirituality should be about empathy So I completely understand where you are coming from, it's very similar to my ways of thinking. Thank you for your contributions.

@Harikrishnan please reread your post. There is a lot of blaming in it or at least it appears that way. You have also explicitly stated that women have victim mentality. That word is very insensitive in the context of rape

@Gnosis I apologize if I said anything that could have offended you. You have the best interests of women in mind and I accept that. My opinions could have been out of context and a bit defensive and in the heat of the moment given the sensitive nature of the topic. Once again I apologize.

@remember Thank you for your support lady. Hehehe I thought you were a guy for so long. Sorry about that You're an awesome woman.

@Annoynymous I'm very grateful that you opened the thread about a very difficult and controversial aspect of India. It helps to create awareness. However I have exhausted myself giving my opinions on this thread. Some people called me brave. Some people (from my own country) called me 'playing victim.' As you can clearly see this difference in perspectives and this alone tells how difficult it is for Indian women to stand up against rape without being demonized or bashed. When a woman wants better laws and safety she is not acting entitled or playing victim. Anyway I retire from this thread. I said whatever I had to so I don't feel the need to say more on this thread.

@Harikrishnan Self justification is very easy since you are a male. Nobody is targeting every Indian male. There are good men in India. But please don't use a woman's behavior to justify rape. It's a crime that needs punishment The focus should be more on male behavior and how that can be tackled rather than pointing fingers at women. And I find it ridiculous that you say that Indian women see themselves as victim. Tell that to a rape victim please. When a crime is committed against a person and the person doesn't get justice, he or she is a victim. Period.

Safety is not an entitlement or a privilege. It's a right. I understand that crime can't be reduced to a complete zero. But it can be definitely be prevented the way it is prevented in western countries by a law enforcement trained and designed to provide protection to citizens and also justice when a crime happens. Most rape cases in India don't reach conviction because the system is not interested in convicting the rapist. It protects them instead of protecting the victims. This is because it's a male dominated society that cares more about men than women. Women are considered valueless in such societies and therefore their concerns are not heard. It's necessary for the system to change and not simply let it remain stagnant by calling it a jungle. It's important to take action. Feminist organizations are already protesting for the government to take strict action. But we also need the support of men. Men cannot simply sit passive and give excuses. Because that way the problem stagnates. Using statements like "this is a jungle" or "men will be men, suck it up" will not work towards a resolution. We need few things Change in the mentality of men, they need to learn to start respecting women. Fathers need to teach their sons to respect the sister, mother, daughter and other women. The Indian man is raised with the thinking that he is superior to any woman. His friends also tell him that. Women are expected to worship men. This thinking needs to change. A woman is not a slave or cattle. She is also a human being with equal rights and she is not under his control. He has no right on her. She is free. The government is done great with respect to stopping other atrocities which is a good thing. Here also the government can do a wonderful job by making sure that rape convictions are higher, rapists are captured and imprisoned and victims get fast track justice. Currently the conviction rates are very low because of a very biased system. Convicts are even let go. There is nothing like registered sex offender list like it exists in the United States. Such things are important to keep the convicts and offenders away from society and controls potential crimes Women should be allowed greater participation in the government. There should be special panels to hear concerns of women. Real time action is needed not just fake promises and just talk. There should be patrolling by the police in places which are high risk. Patrolling is always seen in advanced first world countries like the USA. Here the police is not bothered to do their job because they are not sufficiently paid or trained or armed to carry out their jobs. Men should defend women in public spaces. This will give the message to a potential rapist that their behavior will not be tolerated and that the society is protective of women and children. This message will weaken them. A woman can use self defense and use it as a last resort however this is always risky Government should allow women to carry self defense weapons but this is always debatable. Because a woman can also use it against an innocent man so I'm not sure if this option is viable. Education of men on treatment of women. Men in India need a real education on how to treat women. This training should happen at schools and special programs to sensitize men and make them more understanding and empathetic towards women. Victim blaming and victim shaming should be objected and protested. Women are already doing this. But men should join them too. Empowering women to become independent so poor class women don't have to rely on abusive husbands and no longer have to tolerate abuse to survive. Work place harassment should be addressed and penalties should be given to those who try to hamper a woman's progress or safety by threats or blackmail. Patrolling in busses. This can go a long way. Just having an officer even occasionally on a bus transportation or street can help a lot. The woman simply has to report on spot harassment. And the guy can be told to leave or taken into custody for groping her. This can definitely reduce transport harassment. Witness protection programs for women and their families who testify because often women and and families are silenced by the criminals with death threats and with no protection these threats are actually carried out with impunity. Street harassment also needs on site patrolling. Educating Indian men on dating and relationships. Making them understand that rejection is acceptable and that a woman has the right to reject and she does not have to die for it Acid attacks should get death penalty because the suffering of the victim is severe in such cases The general misogyny needs to be addressed by both women and men. Men should support feminists in their effort to bring equality for basic rights instead of mocking, ridiculing or opposing them.

@remember oh God. @Gnosis Rape is a sociopathic crime of control and abuse where the criminal enjoys the pain and suffering of the victim and the fear and terror he causes give him a sense of power and a high. Those people defending the psychology of a rapist should read a bit of criminal psychology. Criminals don't belong in society, they belong in prison and off the streets. This is such simple logic. A rapist is not looking for love. He is looking for power and abuse. Smh. Where do these people get their ideas from? And also a man not getting sex from a woman does not justify rape under any circumstances. It only means that she has her freedom and free will and choice. That's the definition of rape. It is forceful and against her consent. Sex and rape are two different things. I can't believe I'm having to explain this. Sex is between a man and a woman and is consensual and the woman is happy receiving the sexual intimacy and affection of a man. Whereas rape is a crime, an assault, a trauma,a brutality. It is against her consent and causes her physical and mental damage. Some guys really need to stop justifying the act(crime) of rape by using metaphors and analogies and ego death and consciousness and all these fancy words. Sociopaths run around and proliferate and grow in society when unchecked just like weeds in the garden. If left that way they get emboldened by the lack of action and punishment and they carry out more crimes and thus encourage other sociopaths to follow suit. That's how crime works. That's why we need law and order and punishment. Crime is always minimized in places of strict law enforcement. Go figure

@Gnosis I'm sorry I can't respond to you if I didn't understand what you said.

@Gnosis I have no idea what you are talking about.

@remember I agree

@Pudgey Hey my name is not India. My name is Preety. (pronounced as Preety as in Sweety. India is the country I live in. I'm Indian.

@Gnosis I know some women can have good intentions with their corrections. But the problem is that it doesn't sit quite well with men. This was said in context of low self esteem issues. When you suffer from low confidence issues, it is best to be surrounded by people who accept you for your flaws and don't judge or correct you. I hope that explains it

@remember that's only possible if the law allows that. The Indian law does not allow carrying guns or weapons And I can't use physical force because I am physically weak. Not all women are physically tough. You don't have that many assaults in your country so you don't have to worry too much about defending yourself everyday. I don't see a lot of western women doing karate on the streets. No they call 911. Please do not compare your situation to what happens in India. Here it's brutal. You're not going to defend yourself 24/7 every day of the week against a new attacker or assaulter each time. Like I said before it's not viable. The woman will land up in the hospital fighting every day and lose her life.

@remember I'm not ridiculing it. I'm saying it's not viable for a lot of women. I thought you were a guy, sorry about that. I am not at all playing into a victim perpetrator mentality. Its a severe problem with huge suffering and consequences for the women. There is no victim playing here. These are real victims who suffer life long injuries. The matter is not limited to groping on the street. The victim that made headlines in India in 2012 died a week after the rape. Even the doctors couldn't save her. And do you think that I won't suffer consequences for defending myself. The last time I heard the rapist said that if a woman defended herself she will be murdered. This problem is much more complex than victim perpetrator, joining karate or using electro shockers. I haven't used my pepper spray in my bag for years now. You may ask why? I'll tell you why. Because if I use it, the next day the guy will track me down and murder me. So be careful about your simplistic suggestions.

Corruption needs to be weeded out. The solution is not to simply let the government and law enforcement sit on their ass. They have a duty for a reason. Protecting a citizen, man woman or child is their duty. How did we reduce dowry? How did we reduce female infanticide? By enforcing law.....

@remember I think they can use physical force. Isn't that what the police is trained for? Sorry I can't use physical force or join military or karate to fight off an attacker. It's not in my nature. I know a lot of women. That's why we need law enforcement. We need armies. We need a jail cell with a lock and key. What you're trying to imply is good for cavemen times when people used sheer force to defend themselves. But we live in civil societies with law and order. A guy earlier in the thread told me that I should Empower myself There is this theory circulating in India especially by actors like Akshay Kumar that women should take up defence classes, learn karate and stuff to defend themselves and fight off a rapist!! Isn't it easy to just put all the responsibilities on the woman's shoulder to defend herself. And what are men gonna do, sit and watch, while a woman fights for her life? I'm not in favor of such a system where a woman is left to defend herself Can you use the same logic for a 10 year old girl. Can she become Hulk Hogan and fight against a strong muscular 35 year old man? It's absolutely ridiculous to even suggest such a thing. You should understand that a lot of the rapes that happen are gangrapes where there are usually a bunch of 5 men assaulting a woman. It's impossible for her to defend herself. You guys undermine the power of a strong government and a strong law enforcement. In a highly evolved society, people are disciplined, well mannered, graceful and they cannot be expected to aggressively defend themselves with physical violence or force. They should not have to do it. This is not a jungle where you are to live on your own. It's called society for a reason. Sucks when people suggest that women should go around fighting every attacker and spend her every day fighting. What a load of crap

I feel like I can bite into some chocolate right now