traveler

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Posts posted by traveler

  1. Posted

    3 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

    This gives my life an entirely different perspective. Damn this is the thing god wants. God loves my life including it's drama. I don't need to take refuge into no-self, because I "escaped" the nothingness for this particular illusion!

    Defo. This is the singularity being this. This is an explosion of infinite singularity, the big bang, happening for eternity, imagining time, lifetimes. 

    7 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

    The nothingness is just too much of a single nothing. Infinite singularity of ITself. Why would it stay like that? Why, wouldn't it take the form of a human/creature to escape it's boring meaningless void of eternity.

    It does stay like that, it has no choice but to forget. There is nothing else, forever and ever and ever and ever. It is infinite without a possibility of death. Scary, sure, but watchu gonna do about it, you are it. There is freedom in realizing that this has absolutely no opposite, and that there is absolutely no way to escape. 

  4. Posted

    There is such a longing to share it, but no one to share it with. It is a beautiful joke, the "I got it, you didn't" game. It is so innocent, but so real from the POV of the soldier in the war zone. That is the beauty of this, it is so so real yet totally insubstantial. God was tired of playing solo so he imagined another controller! All of You are perfect. All of You is this. God doesn't have to go back to playing solo to be God, God doesn't need to compromise, stop looking for heaven and you realize you're standing in it. 

  6. Posted

    I had this as well. With me it was my heart. I thought I was going to die because it pumped so fast, then the breakthrough happened and my pumping heart completely disappeared. Like a vibration raising higher and higher until it hit absolute zero. A total merge of all duality. 

    2 hours ago, ivankiss said:

    I can only describe it as being sucked out of your body and spread onto everything. Yup! You're the whole thing now, baby!

    Great decription. 

    After that breakthrough I couldn't smoke weed anymore, because I'd be confronted with that infinite explosion of energy frequently when I was high. It is merely a memory now, but the thing I remember about it is that it was totally new and gigantic every time, it could never be "known," and I could never get it back with effort, it was spontaneous every time. What was incredible to me was how that energy didn't kill my body, but then if you think about it, your body is that energy appearing as a body. If it followed the laws of cause and effect my brain should have exploded. 

  9. Posted

    9 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    It can't be communicated

    !!

    9 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    That Reality is Perfect/Good/Love/ is not a belief or an idea.
    Explicitly, It sounds like it is an idea or a belief-system or a story. But implicitly it is not an idea or a belief or a story.

    That reality is anything in particular "perfect," "good" or "love" is an idea. Saying it is perfect, good or love is just not what it is, but saying it is perfect, good or love is just what it is, it is ______. Nothing can be said.

    I think you might have picked up some identification with the role of the "enlightened person," nothing wrong with it, just throwing it out there.

    You're trying to fit a holistic pov into a relative context when you say "This BAD, and this GOOD - This is in alignment, and this is not." Non-duality/The absolute has no laws, it becomes a religion when we preach Good vs Evil. 

    27 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    You can't argue with Absolute Truth when first realized.

    Don't have to realize it, I'm sitting in it. The absolute is sitting in itself, writing this as Traveler, talking to itself as WaveInTheOcean. There is nothing to realize and no one to realize it. 

    31 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    The "I am not this, I am not that"-approach (nothingness/no self-realization) is highly effective and I used it myself.

    Ultimately, that approach (& accompanying insight) has to be transcended as well though, because it has its limits.

    Dude, we're getting a little side-tracked here, but anyway. I'm not promoting inquiry into "no-self." I'm not particular in my descriptions of reality, because the dream of "me having to wake up" is not here anymore. There is no goal for me to wake someone else up, only suggestions pointing to that in which concepts of Love/The absolute/This apparently arise and are misunderstood as reality. 

    36 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    The "major problem" with the method/'attachment to the realization on its own' is that it is inherently dualistic in nature.

    I genuinely don't know if this is directed at "me." Are you just coming up with a possible problem, that isn't here? I do agree with the statement, but there is either a major misunderstanding of what I'm saying or you're speaking to an imaginary audience in order to help them avoid a mistake you have made. 

    40 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    By saying "I am not this, I am not that" .. or "it is not that, it is not this ... or "there is no self, there is nothing" ... or "the self is an illusion, no-self is the truth" etc. etc. we create dualities:

    Of course, but as you said so eloquently : “when you listen to them your brain interprets them and the result is not necessarily what the words are pointing to, just as my finger pointing to the moon is not the moon.“

    44 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    All boundaries dissolved.
    Everything fusing into Itself out of Itself.

    And that is "this." That is what is, ALREADY. If there is still an idea that someone has to "get" that or travel that journey, there is still an illusory dream. 

  10. Posted

    3 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    However commiting rape is not in alignment with (the nature of) God/The Absolute/Love/Perfectness/Selflessness.

    While making free, top quality youtube videos about Love, God, Spirituality, self-development (etc.) is INDEED very much in alignment with IT.

    Have you seen the vid? Rape is not in alignment with your IDEA of what God/The Absolute/Love/Perfectness/Selflessness is. Let's say there was an "absolute POV" (there isn't), from that perspective everything is as it should be. Leo touches on this in the video. A rapist is a bundle of experiences leading up to the moment of the rape, perfectly formed by every factor that goes into creating the mind that is capable of doing that. Just as your ideas of perfection are a consequence of everything leading up to this moment. 

  11. Posted

    4 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    Trying to go beyond experience is an alluring trap that easily makes you stuck in concepts instead of The Now/Present Moment (feels much better to be 'stuck' in the latter, I tell you!).

    I think the "problem" is that our interpretations of words are different. I'm not talking about going beyond experience into a mystical fractal sort of "state." What is happening is not an experience, an experience is a happening in time, it has a start and an end. Example: "I was at Tivoli and I tried the "Golden Tower," that was a great experience." Experiences are stories but I'm not saying they didn't happen, they apparently did. I'm pointing to that in which apparent experiences happen, but that is not a "thing," hence "no thing" is a good pointer IMO. I think we're close to talking about the same non thing. 

    4 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    Oh, as I said, I do like them. I just like to play The Devil's Advocate, when I sniff something is out of line ? My sniffing may be wrong, though, hehe. But it's still fun.

    Same, haha. 

    4 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    Good! Now we can go a level deeper and say "yet, something IS opposite to nothing!" , although it simultaneously is not hehe. Non-duality is such a strange loop. If I say 'nothing is not opposite to something', I have simultaneously implied that it is! Haha. Okay I'm just lolling around now. Gotta stop ?

    Alright, I'd say what I said is a "level" deeper, that comes down to my point about "nothing," which is everything by nature. Something is specific, everything is not. I will agree that nothing and everything are opposite in conceptual thinking but actually absolutely identical "in reality." 

    4 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    In regards to the Enneagram model, if you're not a Five, whar core type are then? 9?

    I don't know actually, I've never looked into that. From reading on the internet I would say that I can see both Type 5 and Type 9 in "myself." 

  12. Posted · Edited by traveler

     

    4 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    Well, while it's true there *in actuality* never was a *separate* self, it's also true that every human being growing up grows a 'sense-of-self' around the age of 3-5. You agree?

    Yes, it is true if we're speaking on the level of story (the world, others, life, time, etc.). 

    4 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    So, this sense of being s separate self HAS to be dropped in order to realize what the meaningless words 'no self' points to, you see?

    Yeees. But the dropping away of the separate self is that it never happened, so it doesn't actually drop away. When it isn't there no one knows it or realizes "no self." The loop of the self is that it wants to know what is left when it isn't there. 

    4 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    In other words, "no self" is INDEED "something" that can be realized. It's the dropping of the sense-of-being-a-self-inside-a-head..

    No it is INDEED not something. That is what we're stuck on and the one thing I can't get across. 

    4 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    The question for you is who/what realizes it. My answer now would be the Dao that can't be spoken, or the Selfless Self, ska God. The veil is lifted.

    That is an insight, an experience. It is a fleeting moment of clarity, that is totally not what I'm talking about. 

    4 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    Feels like there are a lot of enneagram type Fives on this forum (I'm one myself) and the trap of the Five is to replace direct exp with concepts. Seems like 90% of Fives on this forum has fallen into that trap and is struggling big time to get out (been there myself, not pleasent at all).

    But that is not happening "here" for "me." What I'm pointing too is not complicated at all, it is not a thing or a concept. There is no one here sitting in a space of "no self" holding on to an experience of nothing. You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Haha, we will go on forever, but it's no problem, this is fun. 

    4 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    Yet that nothing is also something. Wakey wakey. 

    Of course. It is nothingsomethingness and not nothingsomethingness.

    As I said, we're doing our best to describe the indescribable. You don't seem to like the "non" words, maybe because they're not something (not fun for type Five not to have something to figure out).

    4 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    When a guy/girl insist on one polarity of a pair of opposites being "the true one" -- e.g. insisting "but there is NO self!!" --  that girl/guy is stuck in dualistic/egoic patterns of thought. 

    But who is doing that? I have said many times that nothing is everything, the point is that 'no thing' - 'not a thing' - 'not something' points to what it is not, it is not opposite to "something" because you need "something" to have an opposite. Get it!? :D 

    As you would say: these words come from direct experience. But that is not a sufficient description imo, I would say that these words appear from nothing. They are an apparent happening without ownership; there is no one having a direct experience finding the right words to describe a state. 

     

     

  13. Posted

    10 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    Tell me about no-self/nothingness when shit hits the fan and a bear ? jumps in and breaks your window and run towards you in your bed. Yes, indeed, nothing is ultimately going on, but tell that to me while you yourself jump out of your bed window in panic while screaming, then landing on your left ankle on the ground breaking multiple bones, screaming even more, while suddenly the Scarlett Johansson appears out of nowhere and shows her boobs to you, saying you can lick them, if you want.

    Licking Scarlett Johanssons nipples would appear to happen if that offer was there.

  14. Posted · Edited by traveler

    1 hour ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    By the way, don't tell me it's not concepts. Words are conceptual by nature. Yes, I know words are just pointers and for sure, I naturally cannot know 100% what no-self/nothingness refers to in your direct experience, and vice versa. Same goes with "God" and so on. Just word-play.

    Words are words, concepts are words paired with form or meaning. "Ball" is not a concept, it is "Ball," but "Ball" can be paired with an image, the feeling and functioning of a ball, which creates the concept. If you try to understand "nothing" it becomes a concept, if not it is just what it points to: Nothing. A word. No substance. Empty. Like the Ant example you used. There is no clear image in the mind of "nothing," so it has to create an idea of what "nothing" is in order to grasp it. That is the problem with this message, nothing is an impossibility to grasp, it is not a concept.  

    1 hour ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    Yes, these words are good pointers. We are all different though. I feel God or Love are more direct pointers, but on the flipside, these words are pretty contaminated (by virtue of our culture), indeed.

    Unconditional Love. Any word that is ungraspable in nature are great pointers, because their nature reflect what is pointed too. 

  15. Posted

    1 hour ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    You see how we actually can't get ANYWHERE with words?

    Definitely ?

    1 hour ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    All your words about "understanding happens so you can feel safe" is true enough (from one perspective, not ultimately true). But notice that while this surely applies to my story-spinning about 'infinite imagination' and so on, it ALSO applies to YOUR story about "no self".  ... - If you can't acknowledge that, or if you make your standard, automatic ,robotic reply "it applies to no one, bro", then god fucking damn it; this shadow thing is some real deep shit, haha.

    It applies to no one, bro!!! Jk 

    It seems like a standard, automatic, robotic reply because you think you know what I'm saying. You think you've heard it before. The words "Nothing", "no self", "no one", "everything", "this", all seem to me to be the most direct and the cleanest- least contaminated by concepts. I don't claim to know more than you, I haven't gotten anything. 

     

    I had a lot more written down, good stuff, but my phone thought it was a fun joke to delete everything I wrote. But peace and love to you too my friend. 

  16. Posted

    2 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    But you still have much deeper to go (so do I). The rabbit hole of self-realization/Consciousness is infinite

    Deepening might happen, but to no one. What I'm saying leaves nothing off the table.

     

    2 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    Forms are formless in nature.

    Formlessness IS form.

    All forms are imagined. It's all whole. Oneness is what is! Always.

    Yes, there can be 'apparent' dualities, fragmentation, separation, distinctions, opposites, parts. 

    But that is just what YOU -- whatever this < You / I > is (it's not the separate illusory self) -- are imagining "into existence" ! Exciting, huh? So Good, so fucking amazing. The mother of all mindfucks: IT IS ALL YOU, silly! ? YOUR doing!

    I sort of agree with everything you said, but it is a story, it comes from a knower that knows what this is. This knower can with a 100 percent certainty tell us that this is ONENESS. But I can not say that, I can not say anything about what is, because whenever it is described it is made into a thing, a concept, no concepts are needed, the concepts do nothing more than give you a sense that you understand and are safe in that understanding. 

    There is no need to understand it, you actually can't, it can sort of resonate or pop a bubble in the brain sometimes, but it is too 'all there is' to be understood. "Nothing" is the "essence" of these words, you call it infinite, I don't call it anything, hence 'nothing'. Doesn't matter in the end.

    I know you like the God talk, the ITS ALL YOU talk, but that comes from an experience and it is true, but not necessary or important. That experience is amazing, but it is an experience/a position, it is not what I'm pointing too. What I'm pointing to is the end of looking for more consciousness, the end of a position. With no position all there is is just what is, no preferences, no doer, no one that controls anything, this. These words are exactly that, these words are not separate from what these words attempt to point too. 

  17. Posted

    1 minute ago, Forestluv said:

    Exactly. There must be a duality thing for it not to be that thing.

    Yea, I get it. But anything said will be dualistic and contradictory when we pretend that what we're talking about is a thing. 

    5 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

    It is true to say that there is nonduality and there is duality. And it is true to say nonduality is different than duality and that nonduality is the same as duality. 

    See that is just bollocks, but it is all fun and we're doing our best, talking about nothing. 

    7 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

    The term "nonduality" is usually used dualistically.  

    I agree. 

  18. Posted

    17 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

    that is not how the phrase "no self" is used. It is used to tell people that believe in a thing called "self" that there not a thing "self".

    Yes, just like "non-duality" is used to tell people that believe in "duality" that there is not "duality." 

    19 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

    Yet there are other awakenings regarding "self" / "no self". Many minds get trapped into a "no self" domain for a looooong time. 

    No self does not point some thing called a "self" present at times and absent at other times. In other words, "no self" is not something that can be realized, it is already the case. Just like non-duality isn't opposite to duality, it is merely "discarding" the claim of duality. 

  20. Posted · Edited by traveler

    2 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    There is no human body either. That's all I'm saying.

    It's imagination.

    There is an apparent human body, but that is just words shining light on a particular set of forms. You could say everything is imagination, but compared to what? Every word falls short when you put it into this context, because "everything" has no opposite, no outside, no distinguishable features.

    2 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    Yes, there is a body, if I imagine one.

    Yes there is a separate self, if I imagine one. 

    If I don't, there is not.

    It's actually not like that. There is a body, then you come in and say "it is there because I imagined it." You would tend to think that the body being imagination is wild and mysterious, but there just being an apparent body without any context, knowing or description... now that is mysterious, but no one is mystified. 

    You're identifying with a "higher" "I," an I that is beyond existence, an I that is the creator of all appearances. That "I" can not be localized, nor can it be described. It is totally mysterious, even the experience that you might have gotten some sort of answer only superficially fulfills the need to know. This is total anarchy. 

    2 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    The ego (separate self) is an illusion.

    The actual Self is all there is.

    There is no actual Self, because in all there is there is no other. That is why we say "there is no self," because when you start talking about "God" or "The Self" you're in story land, in "something land." What is longed for is the end of looking/knowing. 

  21. Posted · Edited by traveler

    41 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

    The body dies sure. But I am not my body. I'm not the separate self I tend to believe I am (to be able to function as a human) . Notice if I didn't ever buy into the belief that I'm a human person, then I would just be equal to a stone more or less. Nothing to do.

    But what he is saying is that there is no separate self. The separate self is not the body, it is that which believes it is separate and knows what is happening. "No self" is not a detachment from a real separate self into a "God self" as you seemingly point to. The end of the separate self is this, it is already over, the illusion is that there is somewhere else to go, something else to get. Believing you're a separate self is not proof of a separate self, it doesn't actually matter, it has no value other than the value put upon it by that illusion.

  25. Posted

    12 hours ago, Holygrail said:

    Morality is relative, so in the absolute sense, it's all just goodness spawned out of God's love to explore all of his infinite creations. So would you let God's desire to experience rape play out or intervene to stop it? 

    It is impossible to see this from a dreamt pov, but all of that is a story. Can't blame you, many "teachers" teach this bullshit. There isn't a separate you from God that could make a choice. The whole story about God's desire and goodness, is "God" appearing as that story. Anyone that claims they can describe or know God, is God dreaming separation. The dream is that a person can know God, then other people look at that person to tell them about God, missing that that whole "play," is God, it is this. Rape is rape, stopping rape is stopping rape, calling the police is calling the police. The complications, doubt and value is something added on top of the simplicity of what is already.