WaveInTheOcean

brilliant talk

A mystical experience is also a hallucination. It's just a hallucination wherein you realize that reality is a hallucination. A strange loop.:)

"It's possible that a person that I see has no conscious experiences of one's own. You simply cannot know without directly experiencing others' conscious experiences. In the future, non-playable characters will become numerous due to artificial intelligence. Theoretically, nothing prevents people from creating artificially intelligent robots that look and behave like humans without a self." You as a person - and all other persons - are imaginary. You imagine yourself as CreamCat, just as I imagine myself as WaveInTheOcean and just as you imagine all other persons you meet in your life. You = I = God. God imagines everything. A seperated self is a special form of "software" programmed to survive. Everything that is programmed to have a self -- that is to survive -- is capable of feeling pain. Because pain is nothing else than an activity imagined to resist being swallowed back into the infinity of Nothingness/God (= resisting death which is also imaginary). There are varying degrees of pain, no doubt. And selfs that are more abstract, more complex no doubt has a higher capacity of feeling pain. "In the future, non-playable characters will become numerous due to artificial intelligence." No. "Non-playable and playable characters" is an artifical dualistic construct you have created in your mind. There is no such thing as non-playable characters. If we are capable -- through the means of hardware and programming -- of creating a robot/an AI that behaves exactly like a human being, then it should have the same rights as you and me... Because it IS a seperated self by definition. And everything that is a seperated self is experienced as such by You = Me = God. "Theoretically, nothing prevents people from creating artificially intelligent robots that look and behave like humans without a self." You are wrong. It is impossible to create an artifical human being that behave exactly like a non-artifical-human being and doesn't have a self. It is quite easy to see why. A human being CANNOT "have" a separated self, because a human being IS a separated self. You=Me=God have infinite seperated selfs as the persons we believe we are and meet in life. *separated =))) EDIT: The reason more abstract/complex selfs have higher capacties for feeling pain (and thus also blissfulness) is because the more abstract/complex a self is, the more separated away from God it is, and the more separated away from God it is, the more it on the outside (explicate order) fears death (union with God) and the more it on the inside (implicate order) is longning for self-death/ego-death (union with God).

I think that's a brilliant way to put it, yes. Yeah that's probably one of the most human thing about us. That we believe that we should always fight for something in order to get it. Suffer for it. Because then when I get it, I'll be one of hell of a guy, yeah - special. The ego is so tricky. In one of his talks, Alan says the following (a snippet from it): - https://www.organism.earth/library/document/25 By the way, I listened to a talk by Adyashanti recently, which I found pretty illuminating. He's a brilliant and very clear conveyer of what spirituality is all about. Or actually, because I'm lazy, I only listened to like 5 minutes of it and then just read the transcript, because that's quicker, but none-the-less, a very good read at least then: https://www.organism.earth/library/document/101 (both transcript and audio-file is here). I can really recommend checking that one out. It's about -- among other things -- how it is really important not to view spiritual enlightenment as a goal, as an end-destination. It's also in general about truth and letting go -- at one point he uses kids as an example. Adyashanti says that the only real 'thing' that can come to an end, is the ignorance about one's own nature:

Alan Watts: The four dominant characteristics of a mystical psychedelic experience. Taken from his book: The Joyous Cosmology.

Yeah, but that's how the ego works, I guess. You gotta obey the ego's playbook to a certain degree. After all, it is through the dissolution of the ego that enlightenment comes. The ego has to dissolve, but you can't make that happen by just wanting it to happen. It has to happen spontaneously, as when you fall asleep lying in the sofa, tired. But how do you make it happen spontaneously? You cannot of course, because then it wouldn't be spontaneous The only way is to go on the road, try really hard. And then maybe, at some point the ego realizes the silliness of it all, the cosmic joke of it all, and then it happens, it surrenders. The presence of the ego implies distinction; a division between subject and object. The ego works by mechanisms whereby it desires to get something it doesn't already have, let it be a girlfriend, money, success or, yes, enlightenment. You have to play by the rules to a certain degree, because there is no alternative. Or that would maybe be a strong psychedelic experience (5-MeO) or just luck. I guess, what I am trying to say, is that you have to search in order to find out that there is nothing to search for Reality is so paradoxical. Some snippets from Osho's own description of his enlightenment:

It's not that Truth is 'beyond' thoughts. The Truth is here and now. Always have been. Always will be. You need nothing to grasp the Truth. Thoughts and all other form of experience are of course expressions of the Truth (what else could they be?). But most experiences in life, most thoughts people have, they are mostly viewed by people as pointers to something else forward in time. "If I go to school, someday I will get a degree" "Now I got my degree. now I will soon get a job, and when I get a job I will get succesful, and then happy". "I will get enlightened if i do X" Experiences and thoughts that point to themselves -- i.e. seem to be self-referring and paradoxical -- are IMO the best pointers to the Truth. I.e. they are not only expressions of Truth, but they also tries to express the Truth itself. I also think that's why koans are used so much by Zen Masters. By using koans, they try to get their students to see the paradoxical nature of everything. Music is maybe the best example of an experience that obviously points to nothing but itself. Music has no meaning besides itself. Of course, ultimately speaking, all experiences are the Truth and thus points to nothing else than the Truth. But relatively speaking, some experiences -- some kind of language -- "more obviously" point to the Truth than other experiences. ----------------------------------------------------------- Thoughts can never approximate the Truth. That's a trap. They can only point to it. And their ability to point or not depends as much on the lisenter as on what is being said. But you can't describe the Truth! In no way! ALL conceptual frameworks are equally infinitely close and infinitely far away from the Truth itself. You can never understand the Truth/Absolute/God/Nothingness/Consciousness/God/Tao through language. Conceptual frameworks/teachings can only be tools ("maps") that can help you in getting you to realize what is and what has ALWAYS been the Truth. In that sense some conceptual frameworks can be useful in the quest for enlightenment, but they can also be traps. Depends on what you do with them. They can help you to start doing the actual 'work', i.e. meditation, self-inquiry, psychedelics, etc. They can help you to start looking at yourself and your attachments, and see what you're clinging to. They can maybe point out to you the massively illusionary nature of your ego, of your thoughts, of your life. A hammer is usually best used to hammer a nail into something, not to look at and sanctify. If you cling to your conceptual framework as something that is approximating the Truth, then naturally that's a great obstacle, but that's your own fault. --------------------------------------------- koans. making them see the paradoxical nature of all their beliefs. making them see how their thoughts are very limited. art. music. poetry. dno. ---------------------------------------- Some conceptual random words: "If you use your mind to study reality, you won't understand either your mind or reality. If you study reality without using your mind, you'll understand both." - This is a great quote by the Zen Master, Bodhidharma. Thoughts come & go, you stay. Emotions come & go, you stay. Sensations come & go, you stay. Image of ’you’ come & go, you stay. Story of ’you’ come & go, you stay. That which doesn't come and go is you. It is really that simple. Awareness naturally gives attention to the comings and goings. Pull identity back from these comings and goings. That which you are trying to look for is that which you are already looking from. Truth is so simple - so effortless. ---------------------------------------------------- “A person who thinks all the time has nothing to think about except thoughts. So he loses touch with reality, and lives in a world of illusion.” "Trying to define yourself is like trying to bite your own teeth." "If you ask me, then, why am I talking? Well, I could say I’m making a living this way, or I have a message that I want to get across to you. But that is not the reason. I’m talking for the same reason that birds sing and for the same reason that the stars shine. I dig it. Why do you dig it? Well, I could go on answering all sorts of questions about human motivation and psychology, but they wouldn’t explain a thing because explaining things by the past is really a refusal to explain them at all. All you’re doing is postponing the explanation. You’re putting it back, and back, and back, and back, and that explains nothing." The present needs no explanation.

Agreed. You don't have to Leo, I think. if you do it anyway, make it somewhat short and precise with a Spiral Dynamics-perspective

Saying there is no truth in journalism as a hard core fact = presenting it as 'a truth' that there is no truth in journalism :-) You got very little clue about what post-modernism and deconstruction is. That's clear. To say that all that deconstruction is saying is 'that there is no absolute truth' is a gross oversimplification of what deconstruction actually is. This is actually a great little video giving some key insights into what Derrida was up to with his "deconstruction".

You seem to have great trust in yourself. Trump doesn't say there's no truth. He's doing the opposite, actually.

We tend to define everything that has DNA as 'natural'. If you have a self-aware AI that is not programmed by DNA, but programmed by computer code, that would qualify as 'artificial' I guess. The distinction is arbitrary. I might as well say that you and I are AI. And I'm just as wrong/right as if someone are saying I'm a "NI". (Natural Intelligence).

Neat idea, but that has kind of already been done with Westworld (in Season 2 at least), although that's a TV series, not a game. Or well, not exactly the same idea, as your idea seems a bit more extreme,. "A humanoid AI in a virtual reality can cut open its skull and damage its brain without affecting its consciousness because that brain is a total cosmetic illusion that has no function" IMO you are contradicting yourself here, kinda. Because 'virtual reality' is something that is digital but resembles reality. Right? And therefore in that VR-game, the humanoid AI should lose consciousness if severe damage is being made to the brain. In our reality, the one you and I are in right now, the brain is not a cosmetic thing. It's useful. It's as useful as something can get,. The word 'consciousness' is a tricky word. All people have slightly different interpretations of the word when they use it/hear it. For me, it means different things based on context. In a medical, biological context, consciousness to me just refers to being awake vs. being unconscious. In a spiritual context, consciousness to me refers to the substance of reality, God. A VR-world where you can just cut your skull open and stick a knife through the brain without affecting consciousness (biological context) would be a silly VR-game, what's the fun then? It has to be dangerous. It has to make 'sense', otherwise it's just pure chaos without any meaning. And meaning -- even though it's always artifical -- is "GOOD" .. it's fun, it's necessary to run the drama of life. Consciousness (in a spiritual, metaphysical context) IS the GROUND of reality, i.e. it's what everything is made out of, it's prior to the material world, it's prior the human mind. So the brain is not the CREATOR of consciousness, it's "merely" a device that CREATES and OPERATES the human mind, i.e. the brain is the material version of you as a PERSON, as a human being, it's the hardware that runs your mind (the software). However, ultimately speaking, the real you, what you really are is not the mind nor the brain, but God, the consciousness that's prior to the human mind. You are God observing itself, i.e. observing the human mind, observing the ego, observing the world (and also creating itself, out of itself, knowing itself). By the way, the world is merely a reflection of the human mind. To me, the human brain is a duality creator of consciousness. The brain creates duality by making a distinction between ME - myself, my mind -- and "not-me"; the 'outside world'. And with me, I mean God. I am God. And I created this human brain to split myself up. To lose myself into the drama of life. I forgot who I am. Now I believe I'm WaveInTheOcean existing independelty of itself in a material world, which is outside and independent of me. But this is the comisc joke. Both WaveInTheOcean and everything that I define as 'outside of me', is actually ALL ME. It's all ME. It's all one substance, God, me. It's all consciousness. The brain is merely making an artifical distinction in order to create drama, to create tension, to create oscillations. To create duality. I am the non-dual consciousness observing it all (and being it all). I am NOT WaveInTheOcean. That's a character I'm - as God - is playing. So it's all me. It's all mind-stuff. It's all one big mind (the mind of God) with smaller limited minds inside God's mind. WaveInTheOcean is one limited mind. But dualistically, relatively speaking, I am a person, I am a mind, a brain existing in the outside world. That's how the game operates. The world is fundamentally dualistic; as long as you are a human being, you are operating with duality. The trick is, either you are aware of it, or you're not. Either you are aware of the game, or you're not. If you're not aware of the game, then you are so stuck in duality that you think it's all rock-solid, real and 110% serious. When we talk about non-duality, we are merely talking abut the reality of the world, about the nature of reality. And yes, reality is non-dual. But that's hard to become aware of, because duality is so seducing. It's much easier to be a poor victim and make distinctions/dualities of "us" vs "them", of "good" vs "evil" and so on. Ultimately, everything is perfect as it is. The game is running according to God's intentions, how could it not? lol. But still, within the game, things are messy, Trump is in the world etc. There are things we, as humans, should do to make the planet Earth a 'better' place to be. This is just my opinion though, that is, WaveInTheOcean's opinion. I hope ya fellows agree with me:D But yeah, realize that this messiness is good. If everything were perfect (relatively speaking, cus ultimately speaking, of course it's perfect, it cannot not be) then it would be boring to be alive, and we would have to create VR-games where things were messy. When you load up a PC game it's no fun to the difficulty to 'easy', we almost always chose 'medium' or 'hard', because that gives us the thrills, it has to be hard. We enjoy suffering. Im just ranting sorry

the dude in this video getting interviewed is an archetype unmature orange guy. A more mature version of an orange archetype would be Sam Harris, who already got some green in him, which is why he's more mature, hehe.

like this or Joe Rogan, Derrida, Einstein, Obama, Elon Musk, Wittgenstein, Freeman Dyson, David Bohm (although he was close to turquoise), Graves, Don beck. Many others (and then again rare compared to orange.)

well. I thought earlier that JP was yellow. Btw I'm probably myself green beginning to transition into you yellow myself, so yeah I'm not at a level where I'm able to spot yellow people so easily yet. Exactly because I'm green and generally find intellectual people interesting (cos JP is smart, he is intellectual, he has a lot of knowledge, but being smart/high IQ/intellectual/knowing a lot is independent of which stage you are at the spiral, mostly), so naturally I thought that JP was yellow, especially because I'm starting to see the limits of green, my own stage, so the critique he was giving of green was intriguing to me, and I thought it was coming from someone above, me, i.e. yellow. However, the more videos I watch with him now, the more I see that he's actually below green. He's pretty clearly orange-blue. I mean a yellow would not be so ideological about that law in Canada, whereas JP is just going to war against it, which is a typical way of doing things in the lower stages, i.e. blue orange. If you want to see someone who's yellow, check out Noam Chomsky, lot's of videos with him on the internet. By the way, it's clear to me that the law in Canada is made by green. From a yellow standpoint the law is not smart, but not a catastrophe either. From a blueish/orangish standpoit, the law is indeed a catastrophe, which is why you see JP acting the way he does right now.

I gotta give it to your Leo (based on your recent blog post). JP is definitely orange with a scent of blue. Yeah, he's fighting against green's increasing influence in society. Chomsky is a good example of yellow, and Chomsky has a way more integral view of the world than JP. Just as someone like Alan Watts had a way more integral view of the world than Chomsky. Whereas JP is orange with a scent of blue, Sam Harris is orange with a scent of green. It's like JP is stuck halfway between blue and orange, whereas Sam Harris is stuck halfway between orange and green. They are both fascinating human beings, very smart, but yeah, very limited in their ability to see their own perspective... I guess you have to master green and start sniffing into yellow to be able to see your own ground.

(with Alan Watts' voice over).

- Osho

Also yeah. Be aware of your bad habits as Wind says. Observe them. There may be contradictions under the surface. If you feel playing PC games makes you happy, why stop? If you don't enjoy playing PC games, why are you doing it? To escape something? Meditate on it.

The rational mind is a blessing in many ways, just as it is also a curse in many ways. One of the ways in which it is a blessing is in the way it can be used to construct rules and routines for yourself that will help you. Life is paradoxical in the sense that to get more freedom, you have to create some rules for your life. If you have no rules, you have no freedom. Of course whether you have rules or not, it's important to be aware of the fact that all rules are human-mind-constructs. But they can still be useful - to get more freedom. e.g. a rule of not taking MDMA more than once every three months. Useful rule, cos if you break it, you might be frying your brain, which will make you a zombie without any freedom:) One out out of many examples. Another one might be staying healthy by eating healthy and so on and so on. Or having a meditation schedule. Or a rule saying that you maximum may play 1 hour of video games a day. etc etc. Jordan Peterson has some good rules in his book:D 12 rules for life: Stand up straight with your shoulders back Treat yourself like someone you are responsible for helping Make friends with people who want the best for you Compare yourself to who you were yesterday, not to who someone else is today Do not let your children do anything that makes you dislike them Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world Pursue what is meaningful (not what is expedient) Tell the truth – or, at least, don't lie Assume that the person you are listening to might know something you don't Be precise in your speech Do not bother children when they are skateboarding Pet a cat when you encounter one on the street Go follow some of the rules, my dear friend.

brains exist just as much as you - as markussweden - exist. Do you feel like you exist? probably, otherwise you wouldn't be posting posts here. Love, beauty, compassion, peace are also projections. It's all an illusion, and sure if you get to that state where you really see that so clearly, then you can't help to find it amazing and beautiful. But since you put effort into making this post, it's clear to me that you're not at that state yet (i might be wrong lol:D). Not that I am either. Rape and war are very real in the sense that it is happening in this world, in this dream.

Great comment Brittany. That's the drama of life, that's the beauty of it, the insanity of it, the thrill of it. Ultimately when people suffer a lot, it's God suffering, it's God's choice to suffer, so to speak, so it's perfect. Everything is perfect, ultimately speaking. Relatively speaking, a lot of shit is going on the world now lol .. *cough* trump *cough*.

That's true. I don't know yet, but we'll found out if that ever happens. It will probably hurt. I mean even if you're on a very high level of awakening, it will still hurt you if your child gets run over by a bus and dies. I think the difference is, that a higher-conscious person will allow it to hurt a lot and get over it much quicker than a person who clings too much and resists too much. The person who deeply knows that life is fundamentally just a theater play will play his role and cry for his child, but will get over it and move over to a new role in the play much sooner, cos it's not fun to watch a theater play where the same actor cries for too long time:D

Reality is meaningless indeed. But it's also full of meaning, just look around. What I'm saying is that reality is <"insert anything"-less> , i.e it's nothing, but it's also everything. Yes objectively speaking there is no deeper meaning. But, there exists no objective viewpoint. Subjectively speaking there exists meaning everywhere. So to say it more directly, reality has infinite potential for an infinite multitude of meanings exactly cos it is completely meaningless.

My take on all this. First of all Leo, my dear dear friend, Spiral Dynamics is nice, and it's pretty accurate on a lot of things. On an other hand, it's just a fucking model, and like all models it has it flaws. It's inaccurate in some areas. I like Spiral Dynamics actually. It's cool as fuck. But it feels a bit like you've in the last few months has made Spiral Dynamics almost into a religion:) hehe Jordan Peterson is a special human being, that's for sure. Let us not idolize the man. But I must admit, I like him. But he has his flaws. Especially the flaw that he doesn't know that God is himself hehe, that's the ultimate flaw, that most ppl have, they think they exist as an individual separated from God or separated from "the mechanical universe". Anyway, if we ignore that, he's actually spot on with a lot of things. I actually see him at stage yellow. He's definitely not at stage blue, cmon. He's not orange either nor green. I feel like he's a pretty clear yellow who has still long to go to get to turquoise. But remember, Spiral Dynamics is just a fucking model, and it's not accurate on all areas. JP is a man who is hard to give a colour. But to call him blue is a joke imo. And Leo, in his newest book he's actually talking a good bit about Eastern philosophy, i.e. Hinduism and Taoism, so yeah. And yeah Leo "Someone like JP cannot accept the deeper truth that all morality is a human invention ", actually I think he can. But you know, if something is a human invention, it's also an invention of God, right? Cos human is a dream dreamt by God, so all 'human' moral constructions are also Godly constructions. Look. Life/reality is a game, a dream. But there are arguably better ways to play it than others, just as there are better ways to play the piano, or better ways to play a PC game like World of Warcraft. I feel JP realizes this and teaches this important point to all the green motherfuckers who are way too posmodernisttic and relativistisk and naiv ly believes that all ways are equally "good" ways to live life, while not even realizing that life is a fucking game/dream. My point is that you are in human form. That's the dream you are in now. And inside the game human is biology. We are social beings. It's hard to just become completetly free of attachments to human programming from biological evolution. To do this yoi gotta meditate in a cave for 50 years or take 5-MeO. Most ppl will never do this. So JP is important, because he is really coming from a Darwinian natural evolution-psychology standpoint - so to speak - and telling young guys some basic facts: ITS IMPORTANT TO EARN SOME MONEY. ITS IMPORTANT TO HAVE FRIENDS. ITS IMPORTANT TO WORK ON YOURSELF. ITS IMPORTANT TO STAND UP FOR YOURSELF. ITS IMPORTANT TO TELL THE TRUTH AND NOT LIE. ITS IMPORTANT TO BE OPEN THAT YOU MIGHT BE WRONG. ITS IMPORTANT TO HAVE SOME ROUTINES. ITS IMPORTANT TO EXERCISE AND STAY HEALTHY AND EAT AND SLEEP WELL etc etc etc, all points he's making in his newest book. JP is a good intelligent fellow, a bit too conservative to my taste, he's not alan watts hehe, he's not Leo either, but he's a much needed guy in the world, which is becoming a bit too posmodernistc while not making the full realization, that even existence itself is a hoax, a trick, a game, a joke.