Leo Gura

That's right. Spiral Dynamics does not map mysticism. Mysticism is way beyond Spiral Dynamics. Spiral Dynamics is talking about trends within the evolution of human culture and value systems. The problem with SD is that its inventors were not themselves mystics. So the model doesn't account well for mysticism. Ken Wilber is a mystic. So he has his own models which are similar to SD but which also account a bit more for nonduality. As I will say in the next video, once you reach Yellow, your goal should really be enlightenment, not Turquoise or SD. Break free of the entire cycle of life and death. Put all this nonsense monkey-business to rest. As good as Don Beck may think SD is for solving world problems, in the end, all world problems are just a hallucination. SD is ultimately Maya. Of which you must break free.

You guys with this Red Pill stuff... sigh... it's just garbage. It does not even warrant rebuttal. Reason, logic, and "scientific facts" are just being weaponized here to serve the ego's agenda. It's really just that simple. BTW, all politics is identity politics! That's the whole point of politics: to promote the survival of your identity. There is no truth or love or fairness in politics. It's self-survival 101. In the future I may start shutting down threads about JP's politics and all this incel talk. It is a distraction from actual self-actualization work. If you want to improve with women, go socialize with women. It's just that simple. Filling your mind with Red Pill theory or JP lectures will not get you laid. It will just make you bitter.

@Self Discovery Excellent work!

@How to be wise Nonduality transcends all models. Sadhguru is dead. He does not exist. He is infinite.

Psychedelics will do it.

Just the opposite. A depressed person is giving meaninglessness a negative meaning. If you are conscious that meaninglessness is meaningless, then you won't be depressed. People are bad at understanding nihilism.

Doesn't surprise me at all. His MMA background, his macho appearance, and his comedy background makes him very attractive to Blue/Orange alpha bro types. Joe covers a lot of shallow pop-culture topics which attracts Orange types. He has a very large audience though, so I think a lot of Green people watch him too. They aren't as vocal as his rabid alpha-bro fans. Right-wingers just tune out Joe's Green streaks. It would challenge their stereotype of Green Libtards and SJW to admit that Joe is Green. After all, Green is supposed to be unreasonable and deluded.

For you alpha-bros in the audience who still don't fathom Green, here it is from Joe Rogan's mouth in 2 minutes: That's Green triggered by Blue/Orange. He's even wearing a green tie-dye shirt with peace symbols and hearts! LOL

There is still plenty of Purple and Red culture in the Middle East, Africa, South America, South East Asia. You deal with it by studying Spiral Dynamics and becoming a Spiral Wizard.

Not sure whether Hoftstadter qualifies as solid Yellow. He's still trapped in materialism, but he's a great example of post-rational thinking. So close yet so far...

Brilliant integral thinker:

Incredible wisdom contained in his books.

Paul Feyerabend was a very important Yellow thinker in epistemology and philosophy of science:

Fritjof Capra is quintessential Yellow, starting to turn Turquoise. A brilliant systems thinker:

@fireworld You are not going to understand the limits of science whilst you are stuck inside the paradigm of scientism. Me trying to argue against science with you would be like me trying to argue against Islam with a fundamentalist Muslim. It's pointless because you accept science as a dogma without being aware that you are doing so. If you care about the Truth, you will make a serious inquiry into the limits of science on your own. You're right about one thing: science is pragmatic. But pragmatism is the ego-mind's survival agenda, which has nothing to do with Truth or deep understanding. In an illusory world, illusion, lying, deception, imagination, and manipulation is highly effective for the purposes of maintaining and advancing oneself as an illusion.

Well... since it accords with you it must be true. That's called scientism. You've just replaced blind belief in Allah with blind belief in science. It's the same shell game, just using different shells.

Flying a private jet does not preclude one from being Yellow. You really expect a huge celebrity like Di Caprio to fly public? He would be hounded by fanboys all day long. A guy like that needs body guards around him. You're talking about one of the most famous people in the whole world. With all that said, Di Caprio seems more Orange/Green to me.

@fireworld Let me rewrite what you wrote from stage Blue's POV thinking about your stage (Orange). Orange Stupidity: The idea behind Spiral Dynamics is that you go through the stages and incorporate the previous stages into the higher ones to some extent. Given this shouldn't stage Orange have a decent amount of understanding of how religion and morality works? I understand that there are limits to religion and that it can be done in an unhealthy way, but from my perspective every person that i have met that is in stage Orange is extremely selfish and disconnected from "moral living". Take the human body as an example of a system, we know that this system called a human body operates in certain ways that keeps it healthy and strong. Proper food, sleep, prayer, fasting, chastity, and so on. But the stage Oranges seem to be extremely against any "set" rules for keeping your materialistic cravings in check. They will take something like casual sex or greasy fast food or alcohol and call it healthy even though we know it isn't healthy at all and is most likely going to be the thing that kills you. The same is true about business, or relationships or anything that we have a deep understanding of. Our religious leaders have long ago pointed out the evils of having a materialistic worldview. Materialism leads to a rejection of God, a mindless belief in technological progress and science, and is responsible for greed, corporate exploitation, objectification of women, sex addiction, drug addiction, food addiction, pornography, crude humor, violent video games, nuclear weapons, depression, suicide, loss of direction, broken marriages, single mothers, STDs, abortions, and much more. Isn't Orange corrupting the very fabric of decent society, turning it into the devil's playground? How can Orange be so stupid as to expect happiness from money, fine clothing, technological gadgetry, TV, video games, Facebook, sex before marriage, pornography, drugs, and rock n roll? Isn't Orange the embodiment of depravity and godlessness? Isn't this the greatest limiting factor to stage Orange? Is that they are completely ignoring how spiritual reality actually works and that's the reason they end up in so much trouble and pain?

@DoubleYou That's what happens when someone puts LSD in your donuts

"Consciousness" is a tricky word. People use it to mean different things. You have to make sure you guys are talking about the same thing.

@Self Discovery In other words, the retreat worked perfectly Enlightenment will strip all meaning from life. Hence why nobody pursues it. You can't get to Being while you're still stuck in meaning.

@aurum Don't get me started on the delusions that pervade PUA culture. I know them all too well. You can do all the spiritual work you want, but the fact remains that PUA is an escape from the real inner work. When you get to real spiritual work PUA will fly out the window as delusional nonsense. I am not going to argue with you about it. You can figure it out on your own. All the points I made are still valid, despite your rebuttals. With all that said, I don't object to talking to girls in clubs to improve your game. What I object to is the toxic anti-woman ideology that comes with it. PUA is like Islam. Good in theory but often ugly in practice. I know most of the RSD instructors. They are very immature and dysfunctional. With that said, yes, they still help lots of guys. They helped me. But you also gotta move on. The sad irony is, all these mens rights movements are way more ugly and toxic than feminism. Which is precisely why all this hatred of feminism exists. It's just compensation for one's own inadequacies.

That's right. Although it's complicated. You have to understand that mystics and enlightened people tend to reside outside Spiral the entirely. Nonduality cannot be mapped. Nonduality is not a stage you reach. Nonduality is Absolute. Never forget that Spiral Dynamics is just a model, and it is not designed to model mysticism, altered states of consciousness, or nonduality. If you want a model of levels of nonduality, Ramaji's LOC system is better suited to that. Although, still, it's just a model and will not address every facet.

@astrokeen I have never used cannabis. Certainly the research shows it has medical properties of all kinds. The problem with it is addiction. True psychedelics are non-addictive.

Welcome to relativity.