Leo Gura

Except that's wrong. The reality is that even if you set a very high standard for enlightenment, it will still be the case that you can have enlightened masters who subscribe to outdated, primitive, and false beliefs. It's crucial to draw a line between enlightenment vs changing the contents of the mind. They are not equivalent. And if you ever equate them, you will be in for a rude awakening as you will be unable to explain why otherwise deeply enlightened people still end up believing and doing stupid shit. This is the classic newbie mistake of over-idealizing enlightenment and gurus. Enlightenment is NOT moral perfection. Nor is it a sophisticated understanding of worldly affairs. Nor is it a guarantee against errors in knowledge.

@Someone here Don't burn yourself.

Well, a lot of German intellectuals actually ended up joining the Nazi party back in the 1930's and 1940's. Like Martin Heidegger. Which shows you that he wasn't such a great philosopher. And the Zen monks of Japan supported Japanese fascism and nationalism in the same time period. Which shows you they weren't so great either. The true mark of a great mystic is how well he supports Love for all people on all levels: socially, culturally, and economically. Love is the ultimate measure.

Yup The Universe is just an Infinite Mind. Like a CPU running every possible video game at once.

Stop fucking around and actually do it. Take a needle, stick it in your finger, and don't feel pain.

Pain, of course, is purely relative. If you're conscious enough, there will be not difference between pain and pleasure. How do you even know that pain isn't pleasure, and pleasure isn't pain? Where in the universe does it say that pain is painful? If you really focus on pain while it's happening, you can start to notice that it's not actually painful, it's just a feeling. Try poking yourself with a needle and actually FEEL it without the ego's drama.

But these are still issues even awakened people perpetuate. You can be awakened and yet still contribute to the exploitations of a capitalist system. Someone like Osho is a good example. He was stuck in Orange in some ways with his Rolls Royces. We can't just adopt an attitude of: "Well, he's awake so nothing else matters." Social issues do matter. If you're awake in a corrupt society, and you're not doing something to correct that, something isn't quite right about you. Sitting by while Nazis take over your town says something about the kind of person you are.

Chastity belts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chastity_belt

Because if we select 1 human out of 8 billion at random, chances are much more likely that you will be born in a shitty part of the world than in a good part. And we haven't even considered animals. If you reincarnate as a random animal, most animals have it pretty hard. Chances you are you will reincarnate as a chicken in a factory farm or a bug that goes SPLAT on a car window shield. Actually pain is conceptual and something your mind is doing. If you become conscious enough you can literally stop feeling pain as painful.

Yeah, sure. But there is a lot more to one's worldview than something as obvious as racism or sexism. Awakening has a more direct impact on one's tolerance of others than it does on other aspects of one's worldview. If you really want to test a mystic's level of Spiral development, ask him his opinions on how to fix capitalism or if he would vote for a socialist. You might be surprised that your favorite guru is actually a neoliberal hack, because he hasn't deeply contemplated the structural problems with capitalism, for example. A good way to test a guru's level of Tier 2 understanding is to ask him about systemic global issues and how he would resolve them. Stuff like poverty, climate change, factory farming, water shortages, Wall Street, banking, systemic racism, taxation, etc.

What's what liberation is. Complete surrender. Complete giving up. Conventional people never transcend suffering precisely because they don't do the unthinkable: just give up. You can manipulate reality as much as you want. Sometimes it will work. But in the end, it must ultimately fail because sickness or death will come for you and you will not be able to manipulate your way out of it. Which is why the wise die before they die. When Ramana Maharshi was diagnosed with cancer on his arm and his followers tried to treat it, he said something along the lines of "Nevermind. This body is just mud. Let it die." That is a surrendered man.

Again, you cite highly exceptional people, and they are all post-modern people. The reason Bashar, Adayshanti, Matt Khan, etc. aren't racist is simply because they are modern folks who grew up in a stage Green culture. If they grew up in the colonial South, I'm pretty sure they'd be racist. And Sadhguru clearly has some pro-Hindu biases. As you'd expect given that India is so stage Blue. But it's basically impossible to be a spiritual guru today and not be at least stage Green. People would laugh at you. Can you imagine Sadhguru sitting up there and:

@diamondpenguin Wherever you are, whoever you are, you are always floating around as a figment in the eternal mind of God.

@Someone here The problem is that you're trying to escape yourself. If there is an end to suffering it would require that you totally accept yourself however you are. The paradox of suffering is that the only way to escape it is to surrender to it. Avoidance won't work.

But the whole point is that it doesn't break away. If you're a racist, sexist, homophobe, and transphobe, you will still be that after enlightenment -- since those are values you picked up from your culture. The bottom line is this: even if you awaken, your mental programming will still largely reflect your culture. Awakening does not change your entire mental programming. Zen monks in 1940's supported authoritarian, fascist Japanese nationalism. Exactly as you'd expect. They would also be sexist, patriarchal, homophobic, transphobic, anti-democratic, anti-globalist, climate change deniers, dogmatic, etc.

Even death won't really save you because you'll just reincarnate, and probably in worse shape than you are today. So enjoy whatever comfort you can while you can because things are gonna get hairy soon.

Well, then you'd be a fool. As I said in my Spiral videos, Spiral Dynamics is not a model for exceptional people. It is modeled on normies and averages. Every scientific model has its limits. Don't go applying Spiral Dynamics to the top 0.001% of God-realized beings. His values were probably Purple/Blueish -- which were the values of his culture and era. If I had to guess, ancient mystics (even if they were very advanced) had values similar to their local culture. Buddha was not some feminist, pro LGBTQ+ guy. Looked at from today's era, such ancient mystics would probably seem like crude religious conservatives, even though they are enlightened.

Right....

@Craigxt22 5-MeO can definitely show you that your body is made out of Infinite Love. Yes you are! Silly... That is what will heal you.

@electroBeam As I said elsewhere, Spiral Dynamics does not model mysticism. So when you start applying it to Jesus and Buddha it won't make much sense. Spiral Dynamics sort of assumes as a baseline states of consciousness which are roughly material. If you do a lifetime of yoga or psychedelics it will all fly apart, at least while you're in those higher states.

A prick

@soos_mite_ah Do you, girl.

No We have to be careful not to muddle things up. They are very different systems.

He who acquired it should be prepared. Don't share psychedelics with normies.

@Eren Eeager This is so 2016.