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AlwaysBeNice

Conscious experiment video- critique: teachers and the end of the path

2 posts in this topic

1. Leo most went most-in-depth, than all, claim.

I started the old topic based on the first segment of the video, that supposedly many teachers are not or haven't reached the deepest, and Leo had (though only for a moment(s)). I felt both statements to be so ridiculous, (based on my own experience with teachers).

Which prompted me to write a seemingly disrepectful, or somewhat ridiculous, sort of light hearted internet humor, response topic, which got locked, and I suggested  Leo 'should' start a traditional teaching course with students-ashram, and teach face to face, see what that is like.

Also because the intellectual discourse really doesn't become relevant anymore after a sudden point of awakening, then it is all about Love and Real Contact in action, which must be done face to face, Darshan.

- and quickly actually boundaries of higher or lower should be aimed at to dissolve to complete realization for the students, you can't be mentally stuck in your own head or on a subtle ego high ground when giving real teaching-satsang-darshan (but it was based on the idea I thought Leo was kind of thinking to be, well, gone farther than most teachers, like Shinzen mentioned, though he also said he didn't know, and also said at the end of the video he's still frustrated to not be at the end of the path sober. - this quite changed the sentiment, and along with the touching part in the middle of the video, - so it was a bit of early response from me. (I can imagine some of you may not find this so interesting to read at all, but I used to be active here and stuff).

2. How can you trust teachers.

 'You should be careful to not put all your chips into one basket' - 'how do you know they have reached the end', 'how would you know?' -'You can't trust humans.'

The question is based on a misunderstanding or lack of experience with legit spiritual teacher, or more accurately put, spiritual masters.

Some of the teachers on youtube we can see, indeed it seems like they are actually 'teachers' or 'teaching'. this however does not compare actually to the real traditional guru role, the traditional guru role, was not about a teaching, but about relationship, if the teacher is an actual master-guru, but it's about Darshan, or transmission of The State, The Sighting. If a real teacher, or master in other words, is actually realized, they can work this way, in which case:

all teaching becomes irrelevant and it only becomes about the direct relationship, in eye contact or silent feeling being-, so you can realize the same source as the the master is, in which case all doubts or worries cease, in which case all doubts of the highest or what ever go, because you are in That, I've only experienced this in glimpses with masters, but could clearly recognize they were in that all the time without a shadow of a doubt, it's just so obvious but I can imagine it sounds doubtful, something you have to see for yourself. So yeah, that's when you know the teacher is real or at the master role. In That, the seeking has ended in awe, and there is no more seeking any deeper limit or what ever, just doesn't occur, satisfied with God or love it Self. And I want to say that yes, even before a major shift, you can be quite happy just with love or resting where you are already, prior enlightenment does not mean 'bad' all the time.

So this is how you know, so it's kind of ridiculous to actually belief you've gone deeper (than almost all teachers), while you, correct me if I am wrong, haven't sat in a devotional relationship with any teacher for a significant amount of time. But you also make statements of ur unknowing about it, fair enough.

3. "I've experienced so much consciousness"

So higher consciousness means more understanding of reality, or perception of reality, telepathic connections? So much you can barely walk or talk? 
That is suppose to be higher enlightenment? Really? No. That can be a conditional mode of expression of reality, if somehow relevant, but still, enlightenment is described as freedom FROM experience, seeing everything as non-binding, and or divine, but remaining or knowing yourself to be untouched, that's what liberation or enlightenment is about, conditionally apparent experiences no matter how great or advanced are not classified as enlightenment.
So 'super highs' aren't enlightenment or even slightly important anyways, and I would say, you underestimate how easily devoted sober practice can deepen over time, you think Consciousness or Gods needs drugs? It's a really blindsided opinion in my view.

4. MahaSamadhi-God is love

Yeah this part especially well in the middle, was really beautiful watch.

I think later, in the mahasamadhi part, you fall out of your love a bit, and start thinking too much about going deeper, the fearing you never come back. I would say this is not really so likely. I mean. As of already, we are the free consciousness, unborn. In samadhi we can disappear completely but we come back (and we don't), I don't see why it would be logical to assume at one point experience can never arise again, al though you can remain realized of still being there,, knowing you are completely unborn, and thus can't die, forever.

I think Naropa in other topic is beautiful example of this that I know personally that was linked in the other topic, really really beautiful and life-long experience and devotion, really worthy to check out. He also speaks about Self-Realization and afterwards enlightenment, and stably so, which I think he also shows as permanently realized in his eyes and being. Here he speaks exactly also like enlightenment being love radiating like you do in the video. Also Adi Da is a cool example that speaks of the same, the light outshining the world, and everything recognized as divine, stably, and unnecessary also, or non-binding, love-bliss. David Spero is another favorite of mine whose authenticity is immediately obvious from the get go I'd say, here he speaks of the end also, 'So that naturally will be the end of all spiritual realization, the end in a glorious sense, not a dismal sense, in a glorious sense, of having realized everything' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mXt1zVZuL8) (this one is also really good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IMdzpawHHE)

Peace

 

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and

5. personifying God.

God didn't choose to exist. God didn't choose to imagine anything. God didn't ask you to love more. God didn't challenge you. Sorry, God really didn't do any of things. It sounds cool though, but it's just not true. You can speak like that, to romanticize the game, the mental experience, real experience, real short experience, made up.

God doesn't exist, it's something humans like to make up to feel good and special about themselves, THE ALMIGHTLY LORD THAT MADE EVERYTHING AND COMMANDS US, no, that God only exists when the mind gets active again, when you wake up out of bed or start dreaming, then God seems so real.

God is a word, an idea, representing life, it's an idea, that's it. It can refer to pure consciousness, but that doesn't do anything or think. 

Existential existence just is, ''must' be', and some phenomena can start arising, in those phenomena psyche's start arising, making choices, pain pleasure, 'bad things happen' or 'good things happen', no God ever chose anything, that pure consciousness being just is, it has no choice, humans have choices, and 'humans' are thoughts.

So God is there as the being, being there for you, just holding everything without thinking about it, but it is not doing anything.
So beings can only reflect love, you can't do any love, but siding with love is a good idea as long as you feel like you need or can do anything, at least you won't be shadow boxing.

And it doesn't choose whether good things happen to someone, bad things, etc. things just happen and emotional things and mental things tend to work themselves out by themselves, this we call karma, but there is no real judgment, and no reward, that's all the ego business.

God is far too lazy and relaxed for it to even conceive of thinking about such a thing.

So when we discover this God being, 'you' just become irrelevant, it doesn't even kill you, it doesn't need to 'kill you', you just forget about yourself, and that's that. 

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