Empty Principles

[Wilhelm44]

17 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

What if there’s nothing higher than human sentient awareness?

And if there is, how would we ever get outside of this immediate awareness to know or see it exists?

Are you saying alien intelligence is not a possibility ?

[Mellowmarsh]

7 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

The mystery IS God. It IS that.  It is everything you think it isn't  

Even it’s the mystery unfolds and reveals itself, it would still remain a mystery beyond words. To even think or speak of the mystery would  not touch the mystery, or be the mystery, for then it wouldn’t be the mystery.

 

[Mellowmarsh]

9 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Are you saying alien intelligence is not a possibility ?

If it’s already a possibility then it would never not be a possibility. And that knowledge would already be contained in the awareness that is already you. 

[Wilhelm44]

13 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

If it’s already a possibility then it would never not be a possibility. And that knowledge would already be contained in the awareness that is already you. 

Aha, I'm feeling something in that, thanks !

[Mellowmarsh]

2 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Aha, I'm feeling something in that, thanks !

 One of the ways that we know that God exists is because we cannot replicate what God has done. We cannot create from nothing. 

[Wilhelm44]

40 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

 One of the ways that we know that God exists is because we cannot replicate what God has done. We cannot create from nothing. 

There's something I'm still trying to integrate for myself.

There seems to be a lot of people on the forum who view what, you and Jim and others are saying, as not being the same as proper God realization.

Yet it seems that many of these people have not yet had a permanent cessation of the sense of a separate self.

My question to them would still be:

How exactly is your notion of God different from the indescribable mystery, so called nothingness, that has the infinite ability to appear as anything under the sun and beyond, and which has as its nature, unconditional freedom, unconditional love, unconditional aliveness, infinite beauty etc ?

[Mellowmarsh]

56 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

How exactly is your notion of God different from the indescribable mystery, so called nothingness, that has the infinite ability to appear as anything under the sun and beyond, and which has as its nature, unconditional freedom, unconditional love, unconditional aliveness, infinite beauty etc ?

The how notion of God is only possible if the how notion of God already exists. That’s what’s recognised as known.

This is already the known indescribable mystery describing the mystery that’s indescribable. For even God itself must ponder how it ever got off its own starting block. 

 

 

[oOo]

On 01/07/2026 at 5:20 PM, Mellowmarsh said:

Fundamentally, there’s just emptiness infinitely gazing upon its own emptiness. And we call this God.

Ultimately, we must conclude that emptiness is full of itself, and cannot exist in the same place at the same time, ultimately cancelling each other out. And we call this God.

And why not the exact opposite?

Let's say you are right, how would you know you are right?

How much have you learned about your own mind?

Your own imagination?

Have you learned the lesson yet, of how to be perfectly content exploring the universe within your imagination, and not just content, but have genuinely realised the meaning and value of it in discovering wisdom?

Purely as devil's advocate, to me a human must learn the art of learning how to find perfect joy within their own mind to the point they're able to spend a whole day, meaningfully exploring and expanding their imagination, without contact with the sensory world. For a whole day, however practically that can be done. 

On a practical level, my goal is to be able to distill this into a training for people enough that they can practice certain exercises, possibly categorised as more advanced, that teach them to not just find joy in life through their imagination, but to understand that joy is first and foremost in the mind itself and that for external pleasures, they are learned or at most, evolutionary (food, sex, etc).

To find emptiness in the world through this training, followed by the natural fulfilment within that makes them want to create in the outer world as an expression of that cultivated inner world. Where their sense of meaning, is developed from the contact of understanding how its very architecture is constructed and engineered through not just their imagination, but the emotional drive, like learning to be driven from pure joy, in its design. In regular life, humans are pushed between X and y where their sense of happiness, at most, occurs at some random reactionary whim of our biology, something that's say normally associated to occur during either the pursuit of goals or their completion. This takes away a humans sense of control over the process of their own happiness, its any wonder humans remain trapped in an external dream they're either falsely believing will bring them everlasting happiness or that they're moving away from in the avoidance of unhappiness. The external world through cause and effect, promises a human by its very design that it cannot provide sustainable happiness, that it will rise up and down due to changing circumstances. Barely, is the world cultivated from within, where a human learns to explore their own imagination inwardly, in a way that is purely driven by their own emotions and awareness of their own emotions. 

One example I will implore the reader to attempt which I doubt many if any people have spent much time understanding about themselves, is as follows. Simply close your eyes after reading and imagine an apple in a regular 3D environment (hopefully *most* readers are visual - apologies if you are not). Now dually engage with the apple with awareness and your emotions by:
(1) Moving the apple back and fourth by whatever emotion you have.
(2) Noticing the dilation of your own awareness as this happens, inclusive of understanding that you are becoming aware of how your own awareness engages in the power of this action while doing so. 
(3) Continue practicing this for the next few minutes or so until it feels natural and you feel you have generated enough feedback to learn from.
(4) Now, focus on the feeling of joy, wherever it is present in your being, and attempt to move the apple with your awareness relative to this feeling and broader emotion. 
(5) Notice how your relationship to this exercise begins to change, and how it results in different ways your awareness chooses to move the apple. 

(6) Continue to practice this exercise through joy, and then begin to unfold this principle with the rest of your experience within your imagination. This is how you get the lights to start to turn on in a mind that was previously, well, empty of the belief that they could previously.  

Emptiness happens at the edge of fulfilment, and at the edge of knowing, truly, in the natural sense. As it is by the natural order of knowing, that one no longer needs to seek, or only does so through their understanding of its practical utility. That's, my contention at present, feel free to share further thoughts.

This is, turning emptiness on its head, exploring the imagination of "God" as is memesized across the forum, that same imagination, as it would be said by some, that is creating this moment right now, for any one of us, to be able to read this comment, and for me to make it, in this world, and any world of course, in which we inhabit. 

Best wishes. Enjoy.

[Ziran]

On 7/2/2026 at 0:31 AM, Wilhelm44 said:

How does nothing turn into something, is it just pure magic ?

It's "engraving".  The "something" that's being made from "nothing"  is "contrast".

On 7/2/2026 at 1:06 AM, Wilhelm44 said:

So there's no divine type laws etc, informing reality behind the scenes, that one could become conscious of, ie your saying it's all just unknowable mystery ?

Maybe this will help?

1) Reality is a multi-dimensional, multi-layered collection of events.  Reality is something which is happening.  It's a verb.

2) Each layer is superimposed on all the others like layers of semi-translucent tissue-paper of differing colors.  Or another analogy.  Each layer co-exists with the others like the differing melodies, harmonies, and rhythms co-exist in a symphony.   Or another analogy.  Each layer is like the individual aroma from each of the flowers in a bouquet.

3) One of those layers is entirely materialistic.  That's the realm of science, facts, here-and-there, before-and-after, hammers, nails, houses, etc...  That's the dog-eat-dog world where it feels and looks like everyone is chasing their own tail and making zero progress.  Physical bodies, hunger, thirst, relief, creature comforts, **temporal phenomenon** all exist here.  In isolation, this realm is entirely nihilistic. 

4) Beyond this realm, in nearly perfect opposition are nearly infinite immaterial realms.  In these realms, phenomena are timeless.  They do not occupy physical space.  They do not break down over time.  They don't behave like physical phenomena.  These events are eternal, ongoing, primordial.  Examples:  "Loving", "Honesty", "Accounting", "Cooperating", "Nullifying", "Gathering", etc.

5)  Law:  Within the material realm, opposites attract.  Conversely, beyond the material realm, like attracts like.  It's correspondence.  Like hand-in-glove.

6)  Law:  Within the material realm, phenomena can be tested.  Beyond the material realm, phenomena cannot be tested.  While the testing is occurring the phenomena is fully subsumed within the material realm.  In QM this is described as "waveform collapse".  ( This law was well known by many in the past.  It's the reason why in the American birthday custom to "make a wish" it's important that they "don't tell anyone what was wished".

 

[Mellowmarsh]

Emptiness is form. Form is emptiness.

This non-dual view means that you can live fully in the physical world ("form") while realising that everything is impermanent and interconnected ("emptiness").

[Mellowmarsh]

Because forms are constantly changing and depend on everything else, they are "empty" of a permanent, separate self.

Because everything is empty of a fixed identity, it is free to inter-be and change. Emptiness is the very fabric that allows the universe to manifest.

[Wilhelm44]

38 minutes ago, Ziran said:

It's "engraving".  The "something" that's being made from "nothing"  is "contrast".

Maybe this will help?

1) Reality is a multi-dimensional, multi-layered collection of events.  Reality is something which is happening.  It's a verb.

2) Each layer is superimposed on all the others like layers of semi-translucent tissue-paper of differing colors.  Or another analogy.  Each layer co-exists with the others like the differing melodies, harmonies, and rhythms co-exist in a symphony.   Or another analogy.  Each layer is like the individual aroma from each of the flowers in a bouquet.

3) One of those layers is entirely materialistic.  That's the realm of science, facts, here-and-there, before-and-after, hammers, nails, houses, etc...  That's the dog-eat-dog world where it feels and looks like everyone is chasing their own tail and making zero progress.  Physical bodies, hunger, thirst, relief, creature comforts, **temporal phenomenon** all exist here.  In isolation, this realm is entirely nihilistic. 

4) Beyond this realm, in nearly perfect opposition are nearly infinite immaterial realms.  In these realms, phenomena are timeless.  They do not occupy physical space.  They do not break down over time.  They don't behave like physical phenomena.  These events are eternal, ongoing, primordial.  Examples:  "Loving", "Honesty", "Accounting", "Cooperating", "Nullifying", "Gathering", etc.

5)  Law:  Within the material realm, opposites attract.  Conversely, beyond the material realm, like attracts like.  It's correspondence.  Like hand-in-glove.

6)  Law:  Within the material realm, phenomena can be tested.  Beyond the material realm, phenomena cannot be tested.  While the testing is occurring the phenomena is fully subsumed within the material realm.  In QM this is described as "waveform collapse".  ( This law was well known by many in the past.  It's the reason why in the American birthday custom to "make a wish" it's important that they "don't tell anyone what was wished".

 

Nice, thank you.

[Ziran]

Just now, Wilhelm44 said:

Nice, thank you.

You're very welcome

[Wilhelm44]

15 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Because forms are constantly changing and depend on everything else, they are "empty" of a permanent, separate self.

Because everything is empty of a fixed identity, it is free to inter-be and change. Emptiness is the very fabric that allows the universe to manifest.

I hear Jim says: It's not an experience.

Is it for you like that also ?

[Mellowmarsh]

2 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

I hear Jim says: It's not an experience.

Is it for you like that also ?

For me, it’s not an experience for a “ someone”… rather, it’s just a spontaneous “experiencing” that nothing made happen and nothing to stop it from happening. 

[Wilhelm44]

10 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

For me, it’s not an experience for a “ someone”… rather, it’s just a spontaneous “experiencing” that nothing made happen and nothing to stop it from happening. 

I like that, thank you.

[Mellowmarsh]

38 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

I like that, thank you.

You’re very welcome. 😊