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Maybe that analogy helps: All relative (any manifestation/arising/anything) can disappear (and does in certain states, deep sleep, Nirvikalpa, at least for the invidual perspective/being in Indras Net, but that suffices to understand it), and the Absolute is still there. The Absolute can be without the relative (or manifestation/arising), but the relative can not be without the Absolute. That is a very clear realization that can be had. A metaphor: The essence of the ring (relative) is gold (absolute). There is nothing but gold all the time. But the ring can be gone/dead/destroyed if molten, leaving its reality (the gold) unchanged in essence. Always througout at each moment is only the Absolute (gold). The ring/Relative is a manifestation/arising of the gold/Absolute, a modulation of it arising within it, as it, nondual. The Absolute and the relative are not on the same ontological level. One is more fundamental than the other. And deviating from the ring/gold-example, the Absolute/Being also is potentially aware if something arises. One can destroy each and any manifestation/universe/relative, and the Absolute would be just fine, eternally silent, empty and groundless, unchanging, infinite and eternal, absolute unmanifested infinite potential. Pure empty infinite Awareness/Being, unaware of itself if nothing arises. "Until" it casts itself out again... And btw., that is not philosophy, but an actual realization that every being can potentially have, this life or the next.

Beautiful! IT (what you describe, bold markings by me) is always right here, and can not be gone. Just temporarily clouded with containing/giving arising to the illusion-arisings of the self-contraction (certain I-thoughts and I-feelings). One can do perfectly fine without them, because most of them are just suffering. I am happy for you that you had this Awakening, insight and experience. That is a wonderful "place" to live ones life from. Water by the River PS: Just some further musings, not specifically intented as answer for you/your post, but also for others that maybe are a bit put off (or just dont really know what I mean by that) by my frequent mentioning of the Impersonal/Nonpersonal [or empty] Nature of Reality/Pure Primary Consciousness/Infinite Consciousness. I certainly would have been a few years ago. [IT/Infinite Reality (what you describe, bold markings by me) is always right here, and can not be gone. Just temporarily clouded with containing/giving arising to the illusion-arisings of the self-contraction (certain I-thoughts and I-feelings). One can do perfectly fine without them, because most of them are just suffering.] Yet, after waking up, the personal individuality/soul stays, though no longer being a separate-self, but an enlightened being in nondual unity with existence itself. Impersonal or non-personal is not bad at all (although it can sound scary in the beginning), but on the opposite: It allows for the full expression of ones individuality or soul-qualities, that now can finally flourish in nonduality, and are no in a contracted separate-ness, hampeing its flow and expression with suffering and other not so nice experiences. But instead expressing itself fully in the Infinite Existence/Reality that one really is then, containing in this perspective (of Indras Net/Reality itself) this individual soul and its expressions. It is like: Unenlightened Being/perspective = Absolute Reality + Individuality/soul + and separate-self arisings cutting Nonduality/Reality into two, creating suffering and/or boredom. Enlightened Being/perspective (or better woken up perspective in Indras Net, since the separate being has been transcended and replaced with Infinite Reality itself) = Absolute Reality + Individuality/soul (each perspective/being is different, have different traits and capacities and inclinations, even enlightened ones) + and no more separate-self arisings cutting Nonduality/Reality into two, but instead True Identity= Impersonal/Nonpersonal Infinite Reality + containing (transcended and intergrated) Individuality/soul, evolving further in this non-contracted state of being. Enlightenment is not the final end of the caterpillar-being (only of certain aspects of it (clouding mechanisms, separate-self-illusions), preventing it from being a butterfly), but just the beginning of the unique butterfly and its path, this life and the next...

Thanks for describing your experience. I do agree with that, based on my own experience. And thousands of others in all cultures and centuries described it like you do. That is a very important element of the path. It probably sounds quite a bit nuts, boring and strange. At least I would have interpreted it like that a few years ago... But that is exactly how the Impersonal (Silent/Pure/Empty) Infinite Consciousness perceives all of its manifestation in certain awakened nondual states, watching itself, perceiving itself, being itself and the world, by itself, for itself. (1) That starts to happen when the self-contraction/separate-self is seen through, transcended and cut off either with high enough speed & proficiency, or with some more energetic state-change techniques. So the resulting flow of bliss makes it no longer possible for any grasping/contracting thought/feeling-arising to grip & contract the focus/attention (and cut the nondual field into two, or duality), and create bad emotions/stop the flow of bliss. And motivating the separate-self with that resulting suffering again for searching or avoiding certain experiences to eradicate the suffering, and relax the contraction again. That process you describe is the natural way that leads the transition to the deep identity level change to ones True Nature, the Infinite Silent and peaceful/blissful Abyss of Pure Consciousness without location or any kind of objective appearance... When not finding IT (or Consciousness, or oneself), at some point the localization of consciousness dissolves, making every appearance (thought, feeling, cloud, tree, the whole world including ones "small self") just an appearance arising in the Infinite, silent & empty and not-personal Eternal Reality of Ones True Being, Infinite Consciousness, or Reality itself. (2) And when it is seen that even the "Understander" of this Nondual and Awake Realization is nothing more than a bundle of "understanding"-thoughts arising WITHIN THAT, then Full Enlightenment is finally seeing that there never was a separate-self besides an illusion, and nobody (besides) an Illusion actually woke up. Pure Infinite Consciousness/Being was there throughout, undisturbed, just containing some illusion-arisings. And yet, that Realization or waking up of that perspective of Indras Net makes all the difference in the dream of that perspective, finally dissolving the self-contraction/separate-self illusion even of the "Understander" of all of that for good. Selling Water by the River PS: (1) are the stages of dissolving the separate-self into nonduality, and (2) is going from Nonduality/Unity towards even relaxing/dissolving the "Understander"-separate-self-illusion of that into Infinite Consciousness/Reality itself. More on that in this post: PS PS: For Infinite Reality to create a separate-self/self-contraction/ego and to maintain it, there are just two emotions needed that have to regularly occur in cycles (not permanently, that would also kill the separate-self) : 1) suffering (in the meaning of non-satisfied-ness, or "non-bliss" , and 2) boredom. That starts all of the projects for getting back again the bliss via certain experiences (whatever that may be varies a lot). A bliss that would be there if not the separate-self-contraction would stop its flow via contracting. Of course, that can only be seen after having touched the natural bliss of ones True Being, because if that would be seen earlier the whole process would be shut off immediately. But if there is no technique available to just cut off the contraction/suffering, one has to stick to grasping for certain experiences, because that is then all one has...

Also on that I agree. Fully. As long as it is a fully enlightened Alien Consciousness on a stable basis. Imagine a little very happy and blissful Alien Consciousness, fully aware pretty much all of the time of its True Natrue, basking in the bliss of its True Nature. So lets go up the ladder of enlightened beings, and why the higher ones probably smile lovingly on the fully enlightened primitive human. One can have a fully enlightened human, and then a fully enlighened angel (or whatever one wants to call that), and even probably an fully enlightened planetary consciousness. Then fully enlightened Galaxy-Consciousness. Fully Enlightened= knows its True Nature, and that of all appearance, of all realms, all dimensions, of all that is possible. Short form: Knows Absolute Infinite Reality/Consciousness. The essence of all(!) possible realms/dimensions. And probably quite early above the Human level, full enlightenment is given or pre-requisite. See Christopher Baches "Diamond Light Lucidity Beings", LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven Then an enlightened entity (also a, although huge, enlightened perspective in Indras Net, encompassing holarchically many other perspectives, but not as dominant monad perspective, but as group holon, yet with its own agency) creating, maintaining and managing a Universe. An enlightened entity managing a group of Universes. For sure extremely Alien already here. Next: An enlightened entity containing, reflecting and managing an enlightened entity managing a group of Universes. Thinking about which kind of Dimension to create next. Next: An enlightened entity containing an infinity of the entities above, defining the charateristics of appearing universes so alien to ours that they would be barely reckognizeable. Next: An enlightened entity containing an infinity of the entities above, Next n+1, and the mathematical move of n towards infinity. That is a class of Infinity, and STILL not Infinite Absolute Reality. Still not all of Reality. Still not God. And now comes to kicker: A holarchie of enlighened beings upwards to infinity. That is btw. Ken Wilbers perspective (although he holds back): Holons upwards to infnity, and downwards (or we will never find the final quark/string, whatever). And what contains all of that? The INFINITE Absolute Reality/Consciousness. God. The Singularity that can very well be realized. Not on animal level, but starting here on human level on this lovely little planet of ours. Sure, there is nothing else to do until all of eternity than exploring exactly all the realms/dimensions/consciousnesses and so on. Hopefully in a fully enlightened way, basking in the bliss of True Nature. Maybe that helps getting an idea why yours truly is not too much grasping and suffering for certain insights/Awakenings going up that ladder towards Infinity and ever more Alien stuff (and giving up staying in True Nature/bliss while doing so). Health in an eco-system (or Holarchie) is also defined as functional fit: Knowing ones role/being/limitations, and having healthy exchanges on all levels of being, up and down the Holarchie. And there is plenty of juicy job-opportunities described in the ladder above, for all of eternity and every next life still yet to come. And on all levels, Empty Mirros are very welcome, see signature. Water by the River

I agree that some Awakenings can't be had without psychedelics. And that what you call Alien Consciousness is for sure cutting edge. And I do consider you a pioneer, and have read so far most of what you wrote, and watched most of your videos. "Alien Consciousness is completely beyond everything those Buddhists understand or have ever achieved." That I don't know, since I don't know what every Buddhist has achieved. But it is very well possible what you write, since they didn't have 5-MeO and other stuff. They had psychedelics [ Secret Drugs of Buddhism: Psychedelic Sacraments and the Origins of the Vajrayana ], but not all what is available now, and not pure. But some exploration they did: https://www.psychedelicsangha.org/paisley-gate/2019/5/8/the-supreme-array-scripture-a-psychedelic-stra-for-buddhist-psychonauts-pp3zz , Yet, I consider Full Enlightenment becoming that Ultimate Reality as a Deep Identity level shift, with no more filters of the separate-self not seen through or covering that Realization/Deep Identity Level shift, no more filter on any of these Awakenings/Enlightenments. True Self, because every being is that already, with some illusion-clouds on top. Not projecting Absolute Reality on separate-self remains, but pure Impersonal Infinite Consciousness. And since that brings bliss and liberation in daily life. I consider it highly valueable. Summum Bonum [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summum_bonum ] So lets continue exploring and awakening to ever higher, larger and more encompassing [Alien] perspectives in Indras Net of Reality, since that is one of the reasons why we are, and one of the reasons God is playing that game/Lila. I just propose doing that from a consideration of the basis of the Summum Bonum mentioned above. Considering that suffering = continued search for further experiences/understandings/realization and end of suffering = resting in ones Deep True Identity as Reality itself, there is a "little" pointer given by Reality via suffering on that issue. Specifically: Placing the importance/value of Alien Consciousness on the same level as striving for Full Enlightenment, i feel fine with that. As long as the Alien Consciousness doesn't drag home some less-than-healthy consequences. Why? Because the paths for both goals go towards more Consciousness, not less. They run parallel, or at least normally not opposed if one doesn't get lost in these Alien Awakenings. Which probably can be avoided. Placing anything higher as the striving for Full Enlightenment is in my perspective choosing suffering, which is not a permanently sustainable strategy. That is the only reason why I am writing all of this. Besides that, I am a big fan Leo! The world needs more people like you. The more pioneers we have, the faster the Wild West is explored. And the faster we know where the rattlesnakes are hiding, which branch-off of the path leads to Death Valles and which leads to California. Water by the River

Yes. All there is is Suchness, or Consciousness. Nondual. "IT" is also the only consciousness "thing" that can perceive anything. Since there is only "itself" (all appearances, every world/dimension), It can only perceive "itself". Normally as an "other", not nondual. But that also means, since "it" is the only consciousness "thing" there is: "It" can only understand itself. There is nothing else. "Enlightenment is an accident. Practice makes accident prone.": We can call that "accident" of Enlightenment whatever we want: IT/Absolute is also infinitely intelligent, and an infinite network of perspectives/holons within Indras Net has to align/"approve"/whatever before ones perspective (the sentient being/you) understands/gets what "It" is ("Full Enlightenment"). There is nothing to be done at THAT point of practice, because any doing would be an arising/movement of thoughts/intentions in consciousness. An a movement of thought/ego is FORM, an appearance, and arising, starting-moving-ending IN THAT/Consciousness/Reality/You. So that is not "It". At the right state, it can happen. That state needs to be cultivated normally over a longtime (practice makes accident-prone). From (for example a description from the Mahamudra-system, but that step-logic of practice is in most systems): Yoga of One Taste (=already nondual) cultivating that state in which the accident can happen, to Yoga of Nonmeditation, in which all activity is stopped, and the meditation does itself, keeping the field nondual, boundless, timeless, mere appearance. In that state the reckognition can happen. When God/The Absolute/The Totality of Indras Net "aligns" and "says yes", "you" get enlightened (the accident). At that point it is grace, Karma, brain chemistry, an act of all of Reality/the Universe/whatever one wants to call it. God/Being/Reality suddenly understanding itself in THAT perspective that is your mindstream of this life. And its impersonal, its not what you think what you are, but what you really are. And the fact that its impersonal is not bad at all... And if Absolute Reality "says": No. Then not today darling... Please more preparation for the "accident". Then, not today darling... Even with DMT. Ok, probably I have confused pretty much everybody with the twisted musings above, but maybe it is useful for some. Water by the River

Uuum, lets assume Reality is infinite intelligent. Meaning Impersonal Infinite Consciousness manifests an Intelligence that holds Indras Net in itself, infinitely intelligent. And lets assume that: “Enlightenment is an accident. But we can make ourselves more accident prone.” So Reality wants a certain mindstream/states(like boundless timeless infinite mere appearance infinite consciousness)/not-too-unloving-personality/maybe certain other stuff also... : The making oneself accident prone. And then the accident can happen. Its not for the separate-self to decide when precisely that happens. Like I wrote before, there are self-guarding mechanisms of Reality. Reality apparently doesn't want too many enlightened uncompassionate egotists basking 24/7 in the bliss of their true nature. And True Nature = bliss = shutting off the self-contraction in ones head, making the whole field groundless mere appearance floating in infinity, and infinite release a the snap of ones finger. That is just how it is, although many apparently don't like to hear it. Water by the River

Yes, it happened and it does make a sound. Because even molecules and atoms are Holons, or perspectives of consciousness in Indras Net. And "they" react to and "perceive" all other atoms/molecules Holon perspectives. If we say all is consciousness and all is imagined, we should be consequent. The Supernova affects all other building blocks of the Universe (which are of course also only Consciousness/Holons/Nodes in Indras Net, in this case mainly molecules), although these "other" building blocks/Holons/perspectives are also only imagined (so they are relative truth). For more on that, see Ken Wilber "Sex, Ecology, Spirituality", or Arthur Koestler on Holon Theory. Selling Water by the River

Because "Your Consciousness" is in reality totally empty and impersonal. With just some Illusions arisings of I/me arise and float/move in it. It seems that "you" are these I-feelinsg/I-thoughts, but these are just objects moving in you. Temporarily. You can fully well "be there", the world arising in you, but no person/ego anywhere to be found. Just perceptions perceiving themselves. THAT Impersonal Consciousness is the same as Leos, or "mine", or "anybodys". That is not just theory, but the direct understanding/apprehension in certain awakened states. And that only works because it is fully Impersonal, which is another word for fully empty. NOTHING, but aware. Because if it would not be literally Pure Empty Awareness, it doesn't fit into the mindstream of "another" being. How would the feeling/thinking of being you, OBEler, "fit" into somebody else? It wouldn't. And that is why the full impersonal or fully empty part of Impersonal Consciousness is so important: As long as it is not impersonal and fully empty, one can never understand what another is. Or oneself. And IT is also literally the essence of all appearance of the World. World=Consciousness. That is clear in nondual states, when there are not two, but one nondual infinite field WITHOUT any subject splitting this Infinite Field of Reality into two. And if "you" don't see Leos point of view, the perspective of Infinite Consciousness that is the sentient being/perspective of Leo perceiving other perceptions..... And all perspectives/beings/Nodes in Indras Net Mirror reflect each other: Or the picture of Leos Infinity of Gods video is also Indras Net. Selling Water by the River

Yes, much better than Absolute Solipsism. How about Ken Wilbers description/perspective? Every "thing/being" actually is a perspective (of Infinite Consciousness), a Holon. A crystal node in Indras Net, reflecting and reacting on all other Nodes. Indras Net is a very common Psychedelic Experience, so its not just theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra's_net And now the cruical point: Everything, from Human, Animal, Plant, Molecule, Atom can be considered as perspective/holon imagined and held in Gods/Absolute Reality/Infinite Consciousness/ seemlingly "spliced" up Infinite Mind divided into infinite sub-perspectives. And using perspective as fundamental building block of the Lila (imagined of course), one never has to leave the Mind-Only thinking/school (Yogachara school of Mind Only Doctrine of Buddhism for example). All is Infinite Mind/Infinite Impersonal Consciousness/Suchness/Nothingness. Then, its actually quite easy to explain what happens with actualized.org, or your Laptop, or anything else when "you" leave the room and don't perceive it anymore: It continues as perspectives/Holons (Molecules and so on) in Indras Great Net, the sum total of the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness. Not as matter, but as perspectives/Holons held in Indras Net. And Indras Net is nothing else then Infinite Consciousness spliced into infinite perspectives. Same holds of course for other beings like humans. No need to say "you don't exist when I don't perceive you", which is madness anyway. And every Holon contains other sub-holons, a human contains organs, cells, molecules, atoms. Each being perspectives/Holons/perspectives reflecting and reacting on other Holons/perspectives. That solves the remaining problems of Solipsism easily, although its then no longer Solipsism, but True Nonduality. Infinite Consciousness splitting itself up into the Infinite Perspectives of Indras Net of Holons/perspectives of consciousness. The sum total of these infinite perspectives of Consciousness of Indras Net forms then the totality of the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness. Or "form". And beyond, and yet also in it as its essence, in a truly nondual way, it the Absolute, or Infinite Reality. Infinite Impersonal totally Empty Boundless Timeless Consciousness. That way of perceiving Reality solves all problems of Solipsism, and leaves one with True Nonduality. And that way of perceiving is a pointer that (if practiced until achieving its referent/meaning, Enlightenment) actually points and leads not to a cosmic ego of infinitely bloated dimension, identifying in unity with the whole Kosmos, and only ending in the claws of the separate-self contraction and the suffering that the ego is at its core, but to an enlightened Mindstream of Impersonal Infinite Consciousness/Infinite Reality. And the freedom from suffering, bliss and love these awakened states carry as their essence. Selling Water by the River

This is when I get mystical on you.. The very, very weirdly beautiful thing about these homogenous substances of four dimensional simultaneity is that there is no medium between them except inside each of them, because otherwise there would be a real duality between medium and mediated, instead this medium is inside each substance and so is the rest of the universe. So how does it look like when time progresses inside each of them? And are we not hard pressed to argue that there must be an equal number of these substances in the beginning of the universe as there is now? In fact we can use the affirmation of the answer to the last question as a proof against the theory of non-simultaneity most physicists have their own ridiculous version of in their head from the "implications" of general relativity. The other difference between this and typical ideations of "Indras net" is that the "distance" between each of the substances in this theory is always different amongst one another.

No doubt about that. Every action ripples forward to Infinity in Indras Great Net of Being. Every Holon/Crystal/Perspective/Being in Indras Net affects and influences each other in mutural apprehension, forward to Eternity and Infinity, in each and every dimension. Each Crystal Node in Indras Great Net reflects each other Crystal Node, affecting it in subtle or not so subtle ways. Forming the patterns of the morphic fields of the future, for more and more Crystal Nodes or beings to vibrate along in mutual resonance, for the new and innovative Cosmic Grooves yet to arise and being formed. Cause-and-Effect, or Karma: No action is ever lost, even the smallest act of love and compassion ripples forward to all eternity. Real Compassion is not Grandmother-compassion. Sometimes the fight of good and bad, truth and untruth, Eros or Thanatos, Sophia and Ingorance can even take the forms of malapropism, irony or just plain and direct criticism. Vibrating in Indras Great Digital Net of IP-adresses, forever to all eternity. Ahhhh, Water by the River, your essay gets an F, OFF-TOPIC again! And how blown up! Get serious! What will you ever become when you have grown up? Nothing reasonable or useful for sure...

Hi Davecraw, in the humble experience of yours truly, you can not rule out with logic if something else besides experience exists until certain Awakened States are realized that show the infinite and limitless nature of the Visual Field, and any other possible field/dimension (like the dimensionless opening/dimension in which subtle objects like thoughts arise). But: One can (and should) use logic to get to an agnostic level: NOTHING prooves that there is a material, external, self-existing world beyond the bubble of the visual field, beyond experiences. You can neither proove nor disproove that with logic. That is a fine point, because arguing WITH logic that only experience exists is one bridge too far. Can't be done. One would need to twist logic to proove that. Although certain very active gentlemens are giving it very extended tries at the moment. Prooving that only experience exists (and no self-existing external material world) can only be done with Awakened States that show the following properties of an Awakened Field of Awareness (below, the goal/outcome of Yoga of one Taste, stage 3 Mahamudra. One Taste = Nondual Union with the Infinite Field) any felt separation between "you" and the "external world" appearing in the visual field is vividly felt first as arising object of subject-object separation, a felt sensation, that then gradually disappears. Including all localization in the body (tension head, body-feelings that cause localization, and so on). Yoga of Illusory Body for example, there are discrete energetic practices to dissolve these contractions/localizations. Or just wait long enough in empty states.... so, union,"nondual" with the field. any "boundary" to anything limiting that visual field (or any other field) can only be an arising, an appearance. Not the boundless limitless infinite Nothingness. time, past and future is seen as mere concepts/ideas/arisings in the timeless Always Here Mind of Infinite Awakened Awareness/Infinite Consciousness. everything in the visual field is just appearance, "hovering" as pretty lucid display in mere Nothingness. -> mere apperance these states bring a lot of bliss and love It happens approximately in that order progressively with good meditation practice. Or, if you are lucky, all by itself (Karma,state). But then good luck telling anybody of the structure of the path to get there that one didn't even notice the path while one passed it, because they flew over it. Or: Ramana and all the other Wunderkinder/prodigies probably won't be able to tell you much details about the turns, wrong exits and scenic views on the road to Awakening, because they took the 747 to the destination. and the Zen and Theravada path tend also tend to not give a very detailed map (at least in the opinion of yours truly), but just a compass and say: go/meditate west, to the west is California & the Ocean. Mahamudra gives you a quite detailed map: Death Valley is here, you wanna go there, don't take the wrong exit, don't camp here, here are the gentlemen with bows&arrows, and so on... So, to get these states: (good efficient) meditation, or psychedelics. Then, counting together the awakenings above in bold letters, it becomes what is called in Mahamudra "boundless limitless timeless nondual loving Awakened Awareness". And THEN you can talk about "there is only experience, anywhere, everywhere", without needing to fool yourself with logic in the nature of your experience. And btw., that is not theory or wishful thinking, but my actual experience with a meditation system of Mahamudra (Tibetan Buddhism, "companion"-system of Dzogchen) described best in Pointing Out the Great Way, Daniel Brown , developing over quite some years. All of the above is the of and up to Yoga of One Taste (3. Stage Mahamdura). Ken Wilbers Diary Book has the titel "One Taste". The same One Taste of that practice, refering to it. One Taste: Daily Reflections on Integral Spirituality, Wilber. The outcome of Yoga of One Taste (3. Stage Mahamdura) gives one a shot (or many many, since many many are neede) to dissolve the last separate self-arisings remnants (the Yoga of Nonmeditation stage 4 Mahamudra), which then brings Full/Complete Enlightenment, in Leos terms God-Realization (although i find that term a bit bombastic, although technically precise if God is Ultimate EMPTY IMPERSONAL Infinite Reality) . Yoga of Nonmeditation dissolves the last remnants of a separate self moving in oneself/Infinite Reality, like awareness of being, awareness of self, any self-reflective arising of being anything. (hint: of= subject object, not full nondual. Still self-reflective thinking/identity creation). What remains is: Reality. The Totality. And zero separation, real Nonduality. Empty. Impersonal. Pure Infinite Consciousness. Staying as "always eternally here" Infinite Impersonal Nothingness. With Awareness as its essence. Yoga of Nonmeditation does this in that any meditation is so fully automized that there are no more separate self arisings doing the meditation to generate and stabilize the Awakened States of Yoga of One Taste, 3. Stage Mahamudra. Not that actually an illusion separate-self claims "Oh I am doing this nondual meditation so great". Would be a funny contradiction of Nothingness would be really pure impersonal Infinite Consciousness if something like that arises, hm? And that takes also a lot of time. Don't fry your brains too much trying to these maybe 500h-1000h+ with 5 MeO (depending of course on ones Karma/brain and body), because yours truly has never read/heard about a credible case where that has been done. Although they could exist. Volunteers for the fried brains, anybody? Joke: How do you spot a pioneer? Got a few fried brain cells arrows in the back. Just kidding. We do need that tested out. And how Psychedelic Paths combined with meditation systems above... Pure Mahamudra is too slow to have larger impact. Allthough still the best system (in the opinion of yours truly) of all of them, and then, good morning after waking up, game over, welcome home! And be nice to "enlighened persons", What is mostly being done with meditation and especially psychedelics, is dabbling around up to and around stage 3, Nonduality (Yoga of One Taste), with are more or less empty subject, up to a very empty witness already in union with then Nondual Infinite Field. "Having" Awakenings. With any kind of content: This World, Aliens, the management & staff running this Universe, other Dimensions, whatever ones heart delights in. An Infinity (literally) of stuff to explore... What is not so often talked about is the "suicide" of stage 4, Nonmeditation Yoga, Full Enlightenment. Getting fully Impersonal with transcending/killing each and every separate-self arising having all these lovely nondual experiences/awakenings. No Aliens required, but still possibly quite a bit scary for sure. But looks only scary from before the Gateless Gate. Any separate self arising (the enlightened or awake "person" having these awakenings, n+1) raising its ugly head, are seen as just more separate-self-contractions buzzing in Ones True Self. Another annoying little headache-bug to laugh about. Another moskito buzzing around in the Infinite Reality that one then realizes onself to be and ever having been, to squatt/Trekchö. One more contraction to let go and transcend. and one lucky day, one just wakes up. But death is death, transcendence is death, even if its only the death of an Illusion. And Maya needs her tools, like the Wizard of Oz, else everbody would just say bye bye to the game. [Disclaimer: In nearly all cases, real suicide is about the most stupid thing one can do. Back to square 1, more Karma added on top. Or how to continue the dream, dodging out ones Karma of this life, with additional Karma on top from hitting the reset-button. But no soul gets lost, just do 3rd grade again, with a headache-hangover from the last try. Finally, every soul graduates college. But some like school so much that they don't listen to most teachers, and do some classes over and over again]. So, have fun on the trip, don't fry your brains, keep your humor (Wilber, Transcendence restors humor), squatt all separate self bugs, and Bon Voyage! Selling Water by the River Ken Wilber wrote: “TRANSCENDENCE RESTORES HUMOR. Spirit restores humor. Suddenly smiling returns. Too many representatives of too many movements – even many very good movements, such as feminism, environmentalism, meditation, spiritual studies – seem to lack humor altogether. In other words, they lack lightness, they lack a distance from themselves, a distance from the ego and its grim game of forcing others to conform to its contours... They should all trade two pounds of ego for one ounce of laughter”(Ken Wilber. 1999. One Taste: The Journals of Ken Wilber. December 7). PS: And for all other beings/perspectives of Indras Net, see: and if you don't already have an overkill, and better go for nice walk or so... Some more for the Aficionados of conceptual overkill: And now, really better go fishing or something... “frog pond plop”

Yes. On one side, all is mere apperance "imagined" hovering in Infinite Nondual Nothingness, made out of Nothingness/Consciousness as its essence. That becomes very clear when solidity and external-ness is replaced by this mere appearance/brighter/more luminous character of the visual field when Nonduality is in place. Infinite Boundless timeless Consciousness. A very discrete state, in which realizing the Infinite Reality becomes more likely (Crossing Over). When the separate self is fully gone, and Infinite Consciousness becomes fully impersonal. But, one can still talk very well for example "manifests" instead of imagines. Imagining is done by a actor/speaker/subject. Manifestation (the term Wilber uses often) is the same process done, but by Indras Net/Reality. Imagined/manifested as Illusion-Show not by the actor/speaker, but by other/further perspectives of ones True Being. Indras Net. Nondual of course, but NOT in control of the perspective of the separate being. Not the ego is running the show, But certain Universe creating/maintaining perspectives/Holons/Beings. The Buddha in middle of each Buddhafield/Universe, however one wants to call that perspective/entity/being. So "imagine", like you say, can hold a subtle separation. That is exactly what runs through his whole system, including Absolute Solipsism, and especially Infinity of Gods. Selling water by the River

Actually, that statement would be the last missing piece in order to provide enough space for the mania of certain egos to roam freely in the (un-) fertile plane of God-sized narcicissm. Undisturbed by each and any conceptual systems (royal charter or not) keeping its insanity in check. Narcis lived long and unhappily ever after.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insanity "Insanity, madness, lunacy, and craziness are behaviors performed by certain abnormal mental or behavioral patterns. Insanity can manifest as violations of societal norms, including a person or persons becoming a danger to themselves or to other people. Conceptually, mental insanity also is associated with the biological phenomenon of contagion (that mental illness is infectious) as in the case of copycat suicides [or here only copycat-Solipsism. At least for now]. In contemporary usage, the term insanity is an informal, un-scientific term denoting "mental instability"; thus, the term insanity defense is the legal definition of mental instability. In medicine, the general term psychosis is used to include the presence of delusions and/or hallucinations in a patient;[1] and psychiatric illness is "psychopathology", not mental insanity.[2]" In English, the word "sane" derives from the Latin adjective sanus meaning "healthy". Juvenal's phrase mens sana in corpore sano is often translated to mean a "healthy mind in a healthy body". From this perspective, insanity can be considered as poor health of the mind, not necessarily of the brain as an organ (although that can affect mental health), but rather refers to defective function of mental processes such as reasoning. Another Latin phrase related to our current concept of sanity is compos mentis ("sound of mind"), and a euphemistic term for insanity is non compos mentis. In law, mens rea means having had criminal intent, or a guilty mind, when the act (actus reus) was committed." Razard, up for the task? Kill the King Buddha on the road? A little revolution against the monarch? The revolution always eats its own children. Ever wondered why there is zero comment from the top of the realm? Because Razard God is imagining Leo. Leo said that himself. So guess what the next move of Razard God would be? End the lovely show and go home? So it ends in, you guessed it, probably banning. One way or the other. And then, having done so, maybe grace another lovely forum with some messianic endeavours? @Razard86 Razard, if you are really faithful for your king, how about insulting somebody in such a way that the guardians of the realm can kick you out of the forum without the king needing to declare your writings as gone pretty far off the deep end heretic? Or any other heavy violation against the forum guidelines? Although, it seems you got a good bonus in violating lots of points in the forum guidelines already, admittingly. Or, how about wising up and revoking? Thought the chances of that are reaaaly low.... @Bazooka Jesus I guess Bazooka Jesus has already booked a seasonal pass localchapter of Spiritualoholics Anonymous,.. Selling Water by the River PS: Rupert Spira on Solipsism "Solipsism is madness often confused in contemporary non-dual circles with Nonduality. Nonduality is saying something very very very different." Does anybody think that gentle being like Rupert says something like madness lightly? Nonduality is similiar to Solipsism that there is only one Consciousness, but with a completely empty IMPERSONAL Infinite Consciousness, the separate self DEAD AND TRANSCENDED. Gone. Nonduality is not the insanity of declaring the ego God. Declaring the ego God is literally the root of all evil. Evil in the meaning of a holon stepping out of its place, putting itself on top of the pyramid, and the whole holarchy getting sick. Not transcend and include, but hijack and go mad... Is it really so complicated? No, it isn't. But true Nonduality/Enlightenment demands a price. "you" must die. Which is not really bad, because all that dies or gets transcended is an illusion: The self-contraction, which causes all the suffering anyway, gets transcended and let go off. Solipsism doesn't demand a price. That is why its easy and attractive for Narcicissm. The easy way up the mountain summit into the darkest pits of the hell of madness. But with a smile from Maya. Or a nice song "Sympathy For The Devil": Pleased to meet you, Hope you guess my name, But what's puzzling you, Is the nature of my game And now Rupert Spira, bringing some clarity and salvation to the topic: Ah, the guy is talking about minds. Yes he does. But in a way that is totally compatible with Infinite Impersonal Consciousness/Nothingness and Nonduality,and "God-Realization" and "its all illusion, God is fooling himself so deeply..." . If one actually reads a book or two or some videos from the Gentleman, before declaring him not awake, that would be pretty clear... Mind=perspective in Indras Net. But according to Rupert when enlightened, IMPERSONAL INFINITE NONDUAL CONSCIOUSNESS. And the fact that "God" fools itself and the illusion goes so deep.... of course! If all is mere manifestation imagined/arising in the totally empty impersonal opening of Infinite Reality, what is EVERY arising? Illusion-stuff of course. Mirage. Nothing else.... n+1. No need for always new awakenings n+1, the "fooling itself" has stopped forever (at least for this life, Brain damage excluded...) . okay, and now the

Guanyin of the Seven Seas A female Boddhisattva of compassion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanyin This is my Laptop-Background-Picture. If one can feel her energy that vibrates as deep karmic imprint deep in the shared Social Holon of all of Humanity (and probably far beyond only this one civilization of ours), forged over Millenia as Morphic Field (Sheldrake) of Kosmic Habits in the subtle realms of manifestation. She is one form of many of the Universal Archetype of compassion that can be found in all spiritual systems and religions. The practice of compassion, Boddhichitta and Love in Buddhism (and other traditions) is not only a companion to any transcending/wisdom practice, or some kind of woowoo social glue practice. It is the generation of actual internal emotional states (and their corresponding impact on the subtle energy system) that acts as gateway for higher awakening/transcendence/emptiness states of Pure Impersonal Consciousness, that can not rise or persist if the heart is not open. Using these powerful subtle energies/Holons/Morphic Fields of these Archetypes. If the chakras are closed by being not open in compassion and love, the powerful energetic changes caused by resting in ones True Nature, impersonal empty consciousness, dissipate, and the state closer to ones True Being is not sustainable. The energy is real, can be felt in the body, and vibrates through Indras Net, even if does so through digital networks. Please excuse if I am going here very far away from my everday-character towards deeper planes of being. But be aware that anybody who ignores these mechanism even for an instant pays a price, including yours truly. Then we have Manjushri. "Mañjuśrī is depicted as a male bodhisattva wielding a flaming sword in his right hand, representing the realization of transcendent wisdom which cuts down ignorance and duality. The scripture supported by the padma (lotus) held in his left hand is a Prajñāpāramitā sūtra, representing his attainment of ultimate realization from the blossoming of wisdom" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manjushri He cuts through any ignorance and false view quickly with discriminating wisdom, so that true Prajna (nonconceptual wisdom) can be realized by all beings. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manjushri And if one wants to keep any kind of awakened state while engaging in any kind of exchange aiming for the greatest span of beings realizing the greatest depth of being and consciousness possible, at least yours truly would never want to miss to feel into their morphic emotional fields of these energies/state-vibrations that have been cut deeply as grooves into shared Kosmic Karma Storehouse of Humanity. To keep the heart as open as possible. These two archetypes are not some kind of phantasy like some pink elephants. They deeply vibrate in the subtle realms, for any being with a sensitive soul to feel.... A river of compassionate energy runs from there, and a flow of Prajñā, that would be less than wise to ignore... These are actual practices of contacting these energies via Deity-Yoga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classes_of_Tantra_in_Tibetan_Buddhism "Anuttarayoga tantras (rnal ’byor bla med, Unexcelled or Unsurpassable yoga tantras), also known as Yoganiruttaratantra are meant for practitioners of the highest ability who do not rely on external activities. It uses the highest level of desire, sexual union and is thus also designated the “tantra of union of the two.” According to Kongtrul, only Highest Yoga includes both the generation and completion phases.[1][2] Kongtrul states that these are "supreme among all tantras" and "there is no other tantra above it."[21] Anuttarayoga is characterized by the practice of Deity Yoga as well as various subtle body yogas (such as the six Dharmas of Naropa), to generate great bliss and attain the subtle clear light (luminous) mind. According to Miranda Shaw, Anuttarayoga Tantra texts "have remained at the forefront of contemplation, ritual, and interpretation throughout the Himalayan Buddhist sphere".[22]" Since over 1000 unbroken years of lineage-practices in Tibet, these Archetypes have been trained in the Tantric Traditions to prepare the mindstream for the realization of Ultimate Reality. Many practices have been kept quite secret... Another kind of Infinity of Gods, although more on a relative/form level.... relative, imagined, but powerful entities/Holons/morphic fields. Yours truly thought it would maybe nice to sprinkle from time to time some deeper stuff into the everday conceptual discussion on the best mirage-path up the mountain... Can you feel the essence and presence of Guanyin of the Seven Seas in your heart and soul? Water by the River Ken Wilber, The Eye of Spirit Chapter: The Eye of Spirit The Eye of Spirit When I rest in simple, clear, ever-present awareness, I am resting in intrinsic Spirit; I am in fact nothing other than witnessing Spirit itself. I do not become Spirit; I simply recognize the Spirit that I always already am. When I rest in simple, clear, ever-present awareness, I am the Witness of the World. I am the eye of Spirit. I see the world as God sees it. I see the world as the Goddess sees it. I see the world as Spirit sees it: every object an object of Beauty, every thing and event a gesture of the Great Perfection, every process a ripple in the pond of my own eternal Being, so much so that I do not stand apart as a separate witness, but find the witness is one taste with all that arises within it. The entire Kosmos arises in the eye of Spirit, in the I of Spirit, in my own intrinsic awareness, this simple ever-present state, and I am simply that. From the ground of simple, ever-present awareness, one’s entire bodymind will resurrect. When you rest in primordial awareness, that awareness begins to saturate your being, and from the stream of consciousness a new destiny is resurrected. When the Great Search is undone, and the separate-self sense has been crucified; when the continuity of witnessing has stabilized in your own case; when ever-present awareness is your constant ground—then your entire bodymind will regenerate, resurrect, and reorganize itself around intrinsic Spirit, and you will arise, as from the dead, to a new destiny and a new duty in consciousness. You will cease to exist as separate self (with all the damage that does to the bodymind), and you will exist instead as vehicle of Spirit (with the bodymind now free to function in its highest potential, undistorted and untortured by the brutalities of the self-contraction). From the ground of everpresent awareness, you will arise embodying any of the enlightened qualities of the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas—“one whose being (sattva) is ever-present awareness (bodhi).” The Buddhist names are not important; the enlightened qualities they represent are. The point is simply that, once you have stably recognized simple, ever-present awareness—once the Great Search and the selfcontraction have been robbed of separative life and returned to God, returned to their ground in ever-present awareness—then you will arise, from the ground of ever-present awareness, and you will embody any of the highest possibilities of that ground. You will be vehicle of the Spirit that you are. That ever-present ground will live through you, as you, in a variety of superordinary forms. Perhaps you will arise as Samantabhadra, whose ever-present awareness takes the form of a vast equality consciousness: you will realize that the everpresent awareness that is fully present in you is the same awareness that is fully present in all sentient beings without exception—one and the same, single and only—one heart, one mind, one soul that breathes and beats and pulses through all sentient beings as such—and your very countenance will remind all beings of that simple fact, remind them that there is only Spirit, remind them that nothing is closer to God than anything else, for there is only God, there is only Goddess. Perhaps you will arise as Avalokiteshvara, whose ever-present awareness takes the form of gentle compassion. In the brilliant clarity of ever-present awareness, all sentient beings arise as equal forms of intrinsic Spirit or pure Emptiness, and thus all beings are treated as the sons and daughters of the Spirit that they are. You will have no choice but to live this compassion with a delicate dedication, so that your very smile will warm the hearts of those who suffer, and they will look to you for a promise that they, too, can be liberated into the vast expanse of their own primordial awareness, and you will never turn away. Perhaps you will arise as Prajnaparamita, the mother of the Buddhas, whose ever-present awareness takes the form of a vast spaciousness, the womb of the great Unborn, in which the entire Kosmos exists. For in deepest truth, it is exactly from the ground of your own simple, clear, ever-present awareness that all beings are born; and it is to the ground of your simple, clear, ever-present awareness that all beings will return. Resting in the brilliant clarity of ever-present awareness, you watch the worlds arise, and all the Buddhas arise, and all sentient beings as such arise. And to you they will all return. And you will smile, and receive, in this vast expanse of everlasting wisdom, and it will all begin again, and yet again, and always yet again, in the womb of your ever-present state. Perhaps you will arise as Manjushri, whose ever-present awareness takes the form of luminous intelligence. Although all beings are equally intrinsic Spirit, some beings do not easily acknowledge this ever-present Suchness, and thus discriminating wisdom will brilliantly arise from the ground of equality consciousness. You will instinctively see what is true and what is false, and thus you will bring clarity to everything you touch. And if the selfcontraction does not listen to your gentler voice, your ever-present awareness will manifest in its wrathful form, which is said to be none other than the dreaded Yamantaka, Subduer of the Lord of Death. And so perhaps you will arise as Yamantaka, fierce protector of everpresent awareness and samurai warrior of intrinsic Spirit. Precisely those items that pretend to block ever-present awareness must be quickly cut through, which is why ever-present awareness arises in its many wrathful forms. You will simply be moved, from the ground of equality consciousness, to expose the false and the shallow and the less-thaneverpresent. It is time for the sword, not the smile, but always the sword of discriminating wisdom, which ruthlessly cuts all obstacles in the ground of the all-encompassing. Perhaps you will arise as Bhaishajyaguru, whose ever-present awareness takes the form of a healing radiance. From the brilliant clarity of ever-present awareness, you will be moved to remind the sick and the sad and those in pain that although the pain is real, it is not what they are. With a simple touch or smile, contracted souls will relax into the vast expanse of intrinsic awareness, and disease will lose all meaning in the radiance of that release. And you will never tire, for ever-present awareness is effortless in its functioning, and so you will constantly remind all beings of who and what they really are, on the other side of fear, in the radical love and unflinching acceptance that is the mirror-mind of ever-present awareness. Perhaps you will arise as Maitreya, whose ever-present awareness takes the form of a promise that, even into the endless future, ever-present awareness will still be simply present. From the brilliant clarity of primordial awareness, you will vow to be with all beings, even unto an eternity of futures, because even those futures will arise in simple present awareness, the same present awareness that now sees just exactly this. Those are simply a few of the potentials of ever-present awareness. The Buddhist names don’t matter; any will do. They are simply a few of the forms of your own resurrection. They are a few of the possibilities that might animate you after the death of the Great Search. They are a few of the ways the world looks to the ever-present eye of Spirit, the ever-present I of Spirit. They are what you see, right now, when you see the world as God sees it, from the groundless ground of simple ever-present awareness. PS: But please don't arise as Tai Lung And It Is All Undone Perhaps you will arise as any or all of those forms of ever-present awareness. But then, it doesn’t really matter. When you rest in the brilliant clarity of ever-present awareness, you are not Buddha or Bodhisattva, you are not this or that, you are not here or there. When you rest in simple, ever-present awareness, you are the great Unborn, free of all qualities whatsoever. Aware of color, you are colorless. Aware of time, you are timeless. Aware of form, you are formless. In the vast expanse of primordial Emptiness, you are forever invisible to this world. It is simply that, as embodied being, you also arise in the world of form that is your own manifestation. And the intrinsic potentials of the enlightened mind (the intrinsic potentials of your ever-present awareness)—such as equanimity, discriminating wisdom, mirrorlike wisdom, ground consciousness, and all-accomplishing awareness—various of these potentials combine with the native dispositions and particular talents of your own individual bodymind. And thus, when the separate self dies into the vast expanse of its own ever-present awareness, you will arise animated by any or all of those various enlightened potentials. You are then motivated, not by the Great Search, but by the Great Compassion of these potentials, some of which are gentle, some of which are truly wrathful, but all of which are simply the possibilities of your own ever-present state. And thus, resting in simple, clear, ever-present awareness, you will arise with the qualities and virtues of your own highest potentials—perhaps compassion, perhaps discriminating wisdom, perhaps cognitive insight, perhaps healing presence, perhaps wrathful reminder, perhaps artistic accomplishment, perhaps athletic skill, perhaps great educator, or perhaps something utterly simple, maybe being the best flower gardener on the block. (In other words, any of the developmental lines released into their own primordial state, released into their own post-postconventional condition.)2 When the bodymind is released from the brutalities inflicted by the selfcontraction, it naturally gravitates to its own highest estate, manifested in the great potentials of the enlightened mind, the great potentials of simple, everpresent awareness. Thus, as you rest in simple, ever-present awareness, you are the great Unborn; but as you are born—as you arise from ever-present awareness— you will manifest certain qualities, qualities inherent in intrinsic Spirit, and qualities colored by the dispositions of your own bodymind and its particular talents. And whatever the form of your own resurrection, you will arise, driven not by the Great Search, but by your own Great Duty, your limitless Dharma, the manifestation of your own highest potentials, and the world will begin to change, because of you. And you will never flinch, and you will never fail in that great Duty, and you will never turn away, because simple, ever-present awareness will be with you now and forever, even unto the ends of the worlds, because now and forever and endlessly forever, there is only Spirit, only intrinsic awareness, only the simple awareness of just this, and nothing more. But that entire journey to what is begins at the beginningless beginning: we begin by simply recognizing that which is always already the case. (“If you understand this, then rest in that which understands, and just that is exactly Spirit. If you do not understand this, then rest in that which does not understand, and just that is exactly Spirit.”) We allow this recognition of ever-present awareness to arise—gently, randomly, spontaneously, through the day and into the night. This simple, ever-present awareness is not hard to attain but impossible to avoid, and we simply notice that. We do this gently, randomly, and spontaneously, through the day and into the night. Soon enough, through all three states of waking, dreaming, and sleeping, this recognition will grow of its own accord and by its own intrinsic power, outshining the obstacles that pretend to hide its nature, until this simple, ever-present awareness announces itself in an unbroken continuity through all changes of state, through all changes of space and time, whereupon space and time lose all meaning whatsoever, exposed for what they are, the shining veils of the radiant Emptiness that you alone now are— and you will swoon into that Beauty, and die into that Truth, and dissolve into that Goodness, and there will be no one left to testify to terror, no one left to take tears seriously, no one left to engineer unease, no one left to deny the Divine, which only alone is, and only alone ever was, and only alone will ever be. And somewhere on a cold crystal night the moon will shine on a silently waiting Earth, just to remind those left behind that it is all a game. The lunar light will set dreams afire in their sleeping hearts, and a yearning to awaken will stir in the depths of that restless night, and you will be pulled, yet again, to respond to those most plaintive prayers, and you will find yourself right here, right now, wondering what it all really means—until that flash of recognition runs across your face and it is all undone. You then will arise as the moon itself, and sing those dreams in your very own heart; and you will arise as the Earth itself, and glorify all of its blessed inhabitants; and you will arise as the Sun itself, radiant to infinity and much too obvious to see; and in that One Taste of primordial purity, with no beginning and no end, with no entrance and no exit, with no birth and no death, it all comes radically to be; and the sound of a singing waterfall, somewhere in the distance, is all that is left to tell this tale, late on that crystal cold night, bathed so beautifully in that lunar light, just so, and again, just so. When the great Zen master Fa-ch’ang was dying, a squirrel screeched out on the roof. “It’s just this,” he said, “and nothing more.”

Well, Dear Breakingthewall... it seems you are on the fast track career path of the Empty Mirror Job opening described in my signature.... ... and got a good hugging while on duty. : Don't worry, there are other Empty Mirrors in Indras Net that share karmic solidarity with you. Water by the River

No, don't think so. He is a genius of sorts, who drove the car up the psychedelic path to as close to the mountain peak as possible, pushing many gas-loads of 5 MeO in the tank. Maybe at some point the engine got a little bit- uhhhh- busted, but no risk no fun. And he seems to be doing fine nowadays. Thank GOD! He saw 95% plus of the Mountain Peak already. That consequently ended up first with the Solipsism-video, and later Infinity of Gods-video. Which is exactly how Infinity seen from separate self remains should look like: An Infinity of Gods. True, but partial, not the end of the story. And some confusions (separate self-elements still projected on Absolute Reality&trip) still well and alive. But nearly up K2, altitude-wise already pretty much in the death-zone, sorts off. Long enough up there, and the separate-self.... Then he also took a little detour to visit the Aliens, which in my humble opinion is just exploring more relative stuff, meandering a path of the mountain on the altitude of Infinity of Gods, or a little bit below. Its a bit sad that the camera didn't capture the pic of the Alien, would have been a lovely picture for the family album. Then he confused the frequent Buddhist half-way-up-the-mountain Enlightenment (so common for example in Buddhism, but everywhere else also) with the full thing, where the half-way-up-the-mountain-scenic drive declares having realized/"seen" Emptiness or Nothingness and being aware of that as final Enlightenment (happens pretty much to everyone, see 3 Pillars of Zen for example, in which still a subtle separate self/transparent nondual witness with some individuality/lenses/separation still active), confusing the being aware OF it with actually becoming that Nothingness as a Deep Identity - or all lenses/filters/identities/separate-self building blocks gone. So no more OF, and nothing that could even think/say OF. The full nondual empty impersonal "thing". The Illusion of the self-contraction dead, gone, finished. Thank God. He intuited correctly the absolutely deep, complex, marvelous and ingenious divine illusion-show-mechanisms (ranging the whole height of the mountain, until its very top) of how "God"/most of Indras Net fools himself and every other sentient being still believing to be separate, and called the understanding of that God-Realization. True, but partial, as long as any separate self still lense/bias still lives and crawls in the Opening of Reality. Because that remaining separate-self-bug IS the Illusion. And compared that to the shallow half-way-up-the-mountain-Enlightenment described above, or the Identity with the manifested mere apperance side of Infinite Consciousness (the halfway-up-the-mountain), with a subtle separate self still alive (see Szyper, Infinite Consiousness for that). These halfway-up-the-mountain-Enlightenment "enlightened" cases are of course still living in the dream, although a bit closer to the mountain summit. and of course having an understanding of how it all can be full/total illusion, Indras Net perfectly fooling itself, is worth a lot compared to any lucid dream of a halfway-up-the-mountain-enlightenment. Because that understanding has a built in FURTHER! And not basking in the sun of the halfway-up-the-mountain resort. What he doesn't yet see , but what I assume he begins to realize, is that once something like Basis Enlightenment (or Full Enlightenment, see link below) can happen, where each and every arising (internal mindstream arising including I-thoughts/I-feeling/or any separate-self building block, AND any external arising (world, visual field) is clearly seen as arising in the Infinite always here Nothingness of Infinite Reality, ones true being, that there is just nothing left that could not be considered as mirage/illusion/show. So the same "God"-Realization, but permanent and full, killing each and every separte self illusion bug. Or smacking it immediately when a bug is left in the shadow, as soon as it crawls out again. And without transfering/projecting any remaining separate-self elements on Infinite Reality. Yours truly admits that it is very difficult to see the gold in the spiritual field (Full Enlightenment, or seeing that any possible arising, n+1, now or in future (including everything of oneself, making oneself fully Nothingness), is just an Illusion, vs. the truckloads of proponents of the Halfway-Up-the-Mountain-Resort-"Enlightenment"-Dream. And that most Awakenings/Enlightenments in the Marketplace (though they are valid Awakenings) are not the final endpoint of the summit. But just the dream becoming more lucid, and its proponent are thinking its already at the peak of the mountain, standing on the little brother peak of the absolute peak, And Maya smilingly holding the shield pointing to that path, stating "Absolute Summit" and guiding the visitor cars to that beautiful resort. And smiling lovingly... or: We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all. - Kalu Rinpoche Now, there is realistic chance that he will see the sign of the path of the transcendence-path of added meditation (combined with psychedelics) and killing every single last separate-self-arisings-bug to get fully empty, and with that fully everything. The Real Deep Identity that we all share: We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all. Kalu Rinpoche The One without a second. Sorry for the repetition. He even wrote recently he has done three hours of meditation, and he refrains a bit from moderating the Spirituality-section of the forum. I previously wrote, the Solipsism-Gladiators are doing quite a show here, of which he has a hard time either approving or disapproving- understandably. Both options are not really good. The path forward: transcend the problem which can't be solved on its own level, step one level higher, and give the right perspective/context on each partial truth of the past, integrating them all into a coherent picture of larger and more encompassing truths, and live happily ever after. And while one is at it, kudos to Ken Wilber for developing such a nice integral framework that provides space&room for all perspectives, (partial-)truths and experiences. No need to have a separate-self-bug arisings that says all wrong/evil, but enough space for the whole Net of Indra. Only One Truth is absolute, all others are either partial and true, or complete & false. And nobody is smart enough to be wrong all the time. Everything contains at least partial truths.... But hey, I am engaging of tabloid press interpreting of the behaviour of the royals, like in UK & Windsor Castle.... . But despite all of that, I try to stay on the lighter and benevolent side of it all... And I agree with Bazooka Jesus, the royals they have in UK are really boring compared to the happenings in our lovely realm: What kind of great and interesting rank and file, governance and royalty. Sorry, of course the other way round. Royalty, governance and rank and file. But honestly! So that would be the 50ct from yours truly on this hell of a show. Maybe even the roalties can grant the lowly rank and file with there presence and maybe even a comment? If not, and still being busy sorting out the thing, that is of course also completely fine. Take your time. The gladiators at the moment fighting the battle in a way that not too many sentient beings with potential will get their Karma damanged, but are delivering and awesome show. And, you know, yours truly got quite robust over the years in viewing every comment arising in "its" visual field as just more illusion-arising, so there is no hang-over from selling crap at the outside or something like that. ItsALLGOODMAN. And in case the Royalty feels intruded by yours truly invading the privacy of the head of state, please issue an verdict, and yours truly will readily revoke, repent, remorse and so on... I wish him good luck on his path, and godspeed, from all my heart! Water by the River @Sincerity Hope the stylistic tone & content of the post is benevolent and respectful enough. Yours truly really tried! If doesn't find the approval of the guardians of the realm, please let me know.

Yes. Don't know Angelo Dulio (but Ingram and Yangs descriptions). Full Enlightenment has the same deep structure always. Only one Nothingness/Reality/Infinite Consciousness/Universal Mind. Without a second. But the way & style being talked about it later varies from perspective to perspective. And to be more precise: The ego (as technical term) or character continues doing its thing. The separate-self-arisings/elements gets understood/seen in real time (and in all its aspect) as illusions moving in oneself, and are transcended and normally cut off (Trekchö) as Illusion. Unnecessary. Awakaned Awareness takes over, and lives ones life much more efficient than the old biased separate-self ever could. Waaay more pleasant. "One" just gets out of the way. Like a lense of perception, normally with some kind of location/center, with I-feelings and I-thoughts. That drops. What remains is an Understanding/Realization of that which can never not be there, Reality itself. That is Nothingness/Infinite Consciousness. The essence of all appearance, including the visual field, is that. That Nothingness is infinite, since any boundary to anything else would be form, an imagined arising. and while there are Infinite Perspectives in Indras Net, non-dimensionally "hovering" or being manifested/imagined in Nothingness (out of which you normally forget all but "your" perspective (and call that your life), the Awareness of all of these perspectives can ever only be that Infinite Nothingness, which is also the essence/Suchness of every appearance. Deep Structures of the process towards Enlightenment. To get there, you need at least the following Awakenings (discrete "hard" STATES, induced by meditation, psychedelic, karma, ..., that one can not jump with just conceptual thinking/videos/whatever. That ends with one form of Solipsism or another, a cul-de-sac) the ego-mind becoming a fully transparent witness (Mahamudra. Yoga 1 & 2): Death/Transcendence of the ego/person. Outcome Transparent Witness. Not yet death/Transcendence of the Indviduality/last subtle separate selves. Nonduality with the visual field (Mahamudra, Yoga of One Taste, Stage 3). Induced and boosted by the step above. the visual field becoming boundless/infinite (further ripening of One Taste Yoga): Infinite the Awakening that Consciousness is Nothingness, nothing that can ever be pointed to, and the Awakening that each and every appearance of the visual field IS Nothingness, its essence is Nothingness (further ripening of One Taste Yoga). Generalizing this awakening/understanding to any possible manifestation. the Awakening to this boundless infinite visual field/Consciousness being also timeless, eternal, never-not-here. Deathless alway-here-Mind. the "you" becoming nothing at all, no center, no lense, no feeling, no thought. Or all of that moving through you like the wind: Mahamudra, Yoga of Nonmeditation, stage 4. The visual field remains, but without you. Impersonal. That is a ripening process of Impersonality (similiar to the ripening of Nonduality in the Yoga of One Taste), which ends suddenly with waking up, or Full Enlightenment, crossing over to the Dharmakaya or whatever lingo floats ones boat. That is Full Enlightenment. Basis Enlightenment in Mahamudra. Fully Waking up to ones True Identity. The Awakenings of Yoga of One Taste, Stage 3, are already called Enlightenments, for example in Zen. That is a much more common Enlightenment than the real one, Basis Enlightenment. That is why for example Leo emphasizes in God Realization that True You/Reality/"God" (I am reluctant to use that word, not because it is technically incorrect, but because it can lead to a lot of Separate-Self-Boosting) imagines everything. That becomes fully clear with Full Enlightenment/Basis Enlightenment, realizing the full identity of oneself and Reality. Infinite Nothingness manifesting/imagining the whole gig. Like in couldn't be different, nowhere and in no dimension/time/anything. Can't be. That was a longer musing than I expected. These are the Deep Structures of the process of Enlightenment. that I have found in ANY Enlightenment-Path-Description. (like in: a few hundreds of books later. You know, nutcase...). You can have that and do that with cessations and a concentrative meditation path, or Dzogchen/Mahamudra. One doesn't need cessations, as Ingram and Yang confirm. Both (and also Wilber) changed later to include Mahamudra/Dzogchen elements. That gave at least yours truly something to think about. Good book for Mahamudra: Pointing out the Great Way, Brown. Many posts of yours truly on that also... And one little warning: Without the corresponding Awakening states, one will a) not understand (or get) Nonduality or Union with the (infinite) visual field by just conceptual description (for example of the one of yours truly above). No chance. But you can recognize when that starts to happen when you know the map of the path. You can know how to induce that with practice, and how to make out of a spark a forest fire b) not understand the full Impersonal nature of ones true being (Nothingness), the death and transcendence of the separate self. That is impossible before it fully happens. But one can get at least an idea when the ripening of that happens. When it fully happens, its clear. Unmistakenably so. Waking Up. So the "game"/path is to induce these states, via for example the practices described above. And then there is a cycle of meditation state->realization/understanding->boosting more meditation state (because it got more impersonal) -> more realization/understanding n+1. "Thinking" ones way to Oneness/God/ItsallIMAGINED and itSAULGOODMAN doesn't work, only leads to Ego/Separate-Self-Solipsism. The 5 aggregate frame is from the earliest phases of Buddhism. Buddhism tended to end at (and emphasize) causal states back in the day (like Nirvana/Cessation/Nothingness as state). That mostly got replaced (transcended and in included) with superior realizations later, Nondual in Ken Wilbers language (Nagarjuna, Madhyamaka). That basically means not loosing ones Identity as Nothingness being the whole Infinite Field (and the essence of that being Nothingness, not metaphorically but literally, as direct experience) as Nothingness. A nice statement from that stage is: - We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all.- Kalu Rinpoche. That is a statement one doesn't normally here from the early Buddhism phases. There is only one Nothingness, but the states can be a bit different on however the Nothingness is approached. However one defines Cessation, Nirvana, Nirvikalpha, nirodha samapatti, its all in the class of Causal State experiences of Ken Wilber. Causal in the meaning of Source, Nothingness. Nice article on nirodha samapatti https://medium.com/@rogerthis/lets-talk-nirodha-samapatti-insights-into-valance-and-the-supposed-ontic-primacy-of-consciousness-fd78a38f3d28 Yours truly would recommend forgetting the concept of Mahasamadhi. Cultural Baggage. Why should that happen? So much effort for the whole imagined/manifested show, and then its game over when one understand what one is? Doesn't happen in practice, and why should it? For the first time, one can play and celebrate manifestation without the fear and lack and cycle of suffering. That is the True Nondual Realization. It is not the scarcity and quite negative perspective of escaping suffering and reaching Nirvana that early Buddhism/Hinayana had. It is the full celebration of manifestation, full with Agape, and if done in an integral way and with intelligence just a beautiful dream. See Francis Lucille for example. He calls it life is a celebration then. It is. He has a very sane perspective on all of that. And please feel invited to review my archieve of posts for more details because yours truly is God, marvels all day at his own perfection, of course has madly fallen in LOVE with himself, and nobody else is awake, you are all dreaming, and only God can describe himself in the best way of all Multiverses possible since there are no others, and everbody else is wrong because or biased and so on and so on (put in the Solipsistic Ramblings of your preference n+1), and its all imagined anyway!!! Sorry, just kidding of course. If you like that channel, just ask and you will helped by various proponents of Absolute Solipsism and other funny concepts Selling Water by the River PS: Very necessary, after all this conceptual overkill of yours truly: Bassui: After having read the letter, drop it into the fire Much more true than all the stuff written above: “frog pond plop” Basho

Very good. Please excuse the addition of my further musings below... Perceptions perceiving themselves. And no "You" or Consciousness or Consciousness "of" anything/anyone anywhere to be found... "You are Experience holding the body, somewhere in the field." And the next step can be to see that there is no "You" in "You" are Experience". Just experience arising in Nothingness, made out of Nothingness as its essence. Impersonal. Empty. A brooding silent Abyss of pure Nothingness/Consciousness. Infinite Silence, never to be seen as object. Yet, always here. Not No-thing, but never anything perceiveable. Yet all appearances arising in "it". Not existing, nor non-existing. Experiencing itself, as itself, being itself, infinite. One without a second. Nondual. "Time,Past and future" and "outside of IT" being just ideas/concepts arising in it. (the idea/concept of Solipsism by the way also). The only Infinite Reality (One without a second) in which any arising/concept can appear at all... "You are Experience holding the body, somewhere in the field." is already a "you" too much. But that is probably what you meant anyway, and "I" am adding redundant musings... > And you are holding all bodies too, you solipsistic asshole. ? . And your body-mind is being held in the perspectives of "others" when these perspectives are perceiving your bodymind, and in their perspective are only the illusions arisings of "their" separate-selfes (I-thoughts, I-feelings) arising. In Infinite Nothingness. All appearance being held in Indras Net of Infinite Perspectives. Nothingness perceiving its own arisings. Arisings with the same essence of Nothingness. And there can be nothing besides "this" Infinite Nothingness, Impersonal Empty Infinite Consciousness/Nothingness. Because anything "else" would appear in it, any boundary (which would be necessary for "anything" else) would appear within it. Selling Water by the River

Yes, I agree. The picture just can help explaining why there is no external world with 3D-space, but an Infinite Universal Mind/Consciousness (the One without a second) able so split itself (only seemingly) into an infinite number of perspectives, thereby imagining/manifesting a "world". An infinite number of perspectives, of which most perspectives can not perceive the "inside" view of other perspectives. Being a human wouldn't work if one perceives at the same time the perspective of every other being on the planet. But each perspective perceives the "outsides" of the other perspectives, their appearing "body/form". Et voila, there is the manifested world/lila, or Indras Net, without needing any "external" "solid" matter. Made out of Consciousness/Nothingness as its essence, perceiving itself by itself. Francis Lucille called that process of forgetting the other/further perspectives "forgetting in space", instead of forgetting in time (forgetting in time = like in what did one do exactly one year ago. Normally one can't remember, has fully forgotten it. Or is not imagining it right now). Water by the River

" where are the infinite multiverses? and the rats, intelligent and stupid? and razard?" There are no multiverses. Only the perspectives of each holon/being of which these apparent multiverses "persist", or rather are imagined. Indras Net of perspectives, each perspective reflecting and containing all other perspectives/beings/holons/crystals in Indras Net. Picture in the post above (also shown below). Non-Euclidian-Space can contain infinite perspectives, something like in the vision of Marc Leavitt: And the One with a second, or Absolute Infinite Impersonal Consciousness holds and watches all these perspectives, but a "human"-perspective/being is unaware of all the other perspectives, or forgets them "in space", like we normally forget things "in time". Reality is made of perspectives, each perspective containing/reflecting each other, and the "aware" "thing" is the same in all of them: Infinite Impersonal Consciousness. It is also the essence of any appearance appearing in a perspective. But it is impersonal, so empty it feels like death. There is no separate-self, and it doesn't need to make I-feelings or I-thoughts (the separate self, ego) appear. As a molecule, or animal, it can do fine without.... For more of that theory that reality is made of Holons, or perspectives, or Indras Net, see Ken Wilber "Sex, Ecology, Spirituality". Maybe that is interesting for you. Selling Water by the River

Razard86, in my humble opinion, you didn't answer the question of OBEler. But maybe OBEler got it, and I didn't. The other beings/perspectives don't collapse or end when you or OBEler (or I) die/end. Indras Net and Impersonal Consciousness/Nothingness (which we really are, already now, we just "forget" all other perspectives/beings) will continue fine without all of "us". To think it all ends if a certain perspective is switched off is solipsistic madness. Thinking the Totality stops when one separate perspective is shut off... Its like looking a bit too deep into the pond like Narcissus did, and boosting it with the power of an Infinity of Gods. Don't you intuit that the exactly same consciousness/Nothingness that you are is every other being? When I look at other beings, I intuit the same consciousness that I really am (and every being is). Their mindstream arisings arise in that Nothingness/Consciousness exactly as in mine. There is no difference. That Nothingness is the essence of everything, all perspectives, every appearance in Reality. Nondual, infinite Nothingness, Reality itself. The same Nothingness/Consciousness that we all are can continue very well without you and me, and anybody else. It can't go anywhere. "It" is already everyhting, everyone, infinite and total. You only get problems with answering these questions if you confuse Totally Empty Consciousness/Nothingness with something not so empty. Like a totally empty separate self/witness, with some individuality still left, hovering in a nondual field. Especially easy to get there with psychedelics. Or even worse: "Thinking" ones way there, watching one Youtube-video or two too many... Going down that road, one has to use construct funny concepts like Infinity of Gods (very nondual indeed), and other Solipsistic funny stuff, making space for a separate self blown up to God-like proportions. The funny thing with Solipsism is: If you proclaim you are the only one having a sentient perspective, every one else having also sentience and consciousness knows that you are, well, a bit nuts... Probably this here is peak solipsistic/Infinity-of-Gods madness. The top level to where you can drive a still separate self Gestalt, proclaiming it is God and that there are an Infinity of other Gods. But hey, what do I know.... And now please throw some arguments from the Absolute Side of the Street at me Bon Voyage Water by the River

Very True. The concept "everything is just imagination" doesn't help one a bit if the suffering of the separate self still "grips" and is not transcended on a stable basis. And it grips/holds until Full Enlightenment, to varying degrees. And Karma, or cause & effect, or the consistence of this Bardo/Life, is very very high in this life/bardo/incarnation, compared for example to a dream. If you "shoot yourself in the knee"-Karma-wise (or literally), it will be with you for the rest of ones life.... Not like in the dream, where the wound is gone when you wake up. And if one goes fully from the relative side of the street to the absolute side of the street: When all is imagined, or better said a manifestation of the One Reality without a second (its not imagined by a separate/self ego, or one of the infinite perspectives in Indras Net, but by the Whole Reality/Nothingness), there is no difference between "real" or "imagined". One doesn't need to classify it with the concept "imagined" vs. the concept "real/self-existing". It just is. Appearing in The One Reality without a second. And it all follows certain patterns, or Karma, cause and effect, at least in this world/Lila. So what is the point labeling it "imagined", if one is clearly still in the claws of Karma/suffing and separate self? Other than spiritual bypassing? What is the benefit? As long as one suffers, it appears as very real.... or who would suffer if "its only imagined". And telling somebody who suffers "hey, its only imagined, believe me and you can stop suffering now".... yeah, works great, shows a lot of empathy and compassion, and helps the poor sould for sure a lot... The Tibetans are in this business for 1000 years+. They have seen a lot of mis-use of jargon from Enlightened Ones misused by not-so-enlightened-ones. And the outcome of that have been for example statements like this: "Although my view is higher than the sky, my respect for the cause and effect of actions [or Karma] is as fine as grains of flour." - Padmasambhava There is a lot of wisdom in that quote... Water by the River

Hi Mike, I am not sure if I fully get your questions. If my answer below is not on topic, please excuse, and let me know. Below are some ramblings on the topic of space, and how it developed for me going from "self-existing-reality-aspect" to "imagined in Reality/Infinite Consciousness". which was one of the deciding steps boosting nonduality/mere groundless appearance in everyday life, making the constant intuiting of fundamental Nothingness/Reality much more proficient. At least for me, space itself was one of the last things to go from "self-existing" to imagined. "Time" as concept goes before, and is replaced by the Always Here Mind/Reality. Space is one of the first "Archetypes" necessary for manifestation in this dimension, and one of the last things to be seen through. Space is not fundamental (or self-existing), it is also imagined. Space (any kind, 3D, 4D, non-euclidian, whatever. Infinite amounts of different space-dimensions in Mathematics) is not any kind of Absolute Reality. It took me a long time to get this, thinking along quite similiar lines of thought as these you write above. Space is normally seen as such a fundamental that (at least for me) didn't even considering questioning that, or rather wondered how space "fits into the picture" of Ultimate Reality,which has cost me quite some time. The perspectives of Consciousness/Reality of the Leavitt picture (hyperbolic Euclidian Space of Visual Fields Bubbles, see previous posts) are not situated in any kind of space. The "Absolute or Nothingness/Primary Consciousness/Reality unaware of itself when no arising is imagined" is more fundamental than space. It is fundamentally totally spaceless. Space is imagined in it. As one of the first arisings. If there is nothing, there is no kind of space. Just Infinite Potential. See the Massaros Waterpistol example (Conversations with a Skeptic) I wrote about in previous posts. With space, I mean any kind of space, 3D, non-Euclidian, n+1 dimensions. Also, Indras Net is not situated in space. Leavitts Picture is a version of Indras Net. Both taken together are a nice working model. An Infinity of perspectives are imagined, and all but your own perspective forgotten in space. Psychedelics can loosen that quite a lot, you get access to more than "your" perspective of this life. But One Absolute Consciousness/Reality is aware of them all (since there can not be anything else than THAT, which is also a direct realization), and "that" also happens to be the stuff/material of all appearances, totally nondual. Perceptions perceiving themselves. And with no appearance/arising, this Reality is unware of itself, but with the potential for sentience. To make it more practical: If you have ever remained aware while going from Dream Sleep to waking state (or the other way round): There is a spaceless state in between, with NOTHING arising. Infinite. No Space. "vast", but not even vast. Just infinite. It is not 3D-Space. Just Nothing. No separate small you. Only Infinite Potential. Similiar to Deep Sleep (blackout), but like an infinite Nothingness/darkness suffused with light, timeless since there is no movement, just nothing. Your perspective is not situated in space then. Space gets imagined in the dream, and in "waking-life", so "before" or "after" THAT (and to be more precise, since there is no time/change in it, it all gets imagined IN IT). And of course, waking life is also a dream, just more coherent, happening in IT/You/Reality. With enough meditation/practice awareness can carry into these states, and instead of the usual Deep Sleep Blackout it can become something as described above, which of course makes the structure of reality more clear. Maya-Deep-Sleep-Blackout replaced by something more revealing (Infinite Darkness suffused with light, and not just a blackout). And I know, all of that is imagind right now, but these states still can occur. And its quite beneficial for understanding to experience them. All this logical reasoning can't get you to the big Awakening into what You really are. But a coherent explanation can help calm the thinking-mind during meditation (on or off the pillow), especially when its no longer only concentrative meditation, but meditation without concentration-support-object, and make it "compatible" for the Realization. And can help you boost your nondual/mere appearance visual field during that. With that goal, I write these lines. Not to logically get you to a conclusion/reasoning that you are IT, but to open the door to be available for that Realization in certain fully nondual states when you are fully empty of separate self arisings, and all perceptions appear as mere appearance. But I agree that the Zen-guys are way smarter than me: They would just mainly stay shut up, smile at you and make you meditate (boost nondual states), and say something like "go looking for the face before your parents were born". Which is actually the same thing I try to point to above. It is up for the reader if these ramblings of mine are of any worth. The Realization is a direct insight/understanding, Consciousness/Reality understanding itself, since there is nothing else. It is not "I always come to this conclusion, that is why I can rule out the rest, so that must be it". That is all nice and good (and necessary), some of the preliminary Awakenings/Enlightenments coming before the Big Bang, necessary to a certain degree and profiency to make the Mindstream "compatible" for the Big Bang. It is more like something undeniable, like a punch in the face. It is an unmistaken insight into what the True You/Reality are, no doubt/error possible. Self evident. Dead-certain (literally). The possibility that one can be gaslit on that Realization is something like a joke occuring in You/Reality. Or, as said in Zen: You can smile the devil in the face, and not be shaken in your certainty of What You are. Or: Who knows the spring does not drink from the cup. If "you" still can doubt it, it is not It. The more compatible your mindstream is with the Enlightened Mind (meaning no possible concept not seen through as thought arisings-in you, the last to go after space is "individuality" of a separate anything), the higher the chance for the Big Bang described above. Small "you" can't force it, but create circumstances where IT can happen (That is a large chunk of the essence of Nonmeditation-Yoga in Mahamudra). You become the whole Infinite "Thing" afterwards, with nobody watching "It". Perceptions perceiving themselves, Steven Norquist style. See my last post if you are so inclined. And yes, that haunted emptiness is the price to pay. But it just happens to look like there is a "real" price to pay, looking like that from before that Gateless Gate. Having gone through it, there never was a price to pay. To the opposite, you win It all. Everything. Everything there could ever be. What you "loose" is just the grip of the separate thinking/feeling arisings of the separate-self-Gestalt, which was nothing more than a a pattern of illusion-arisings (technically (and beware, reductionism ahead): patterns of phenomena-arisings of a separate self=structure=probability distribution of arising, a process of arisings with a certain systematic to it). Arising in you, but not self-existing: You can happily exist without it. What remains is Reality itself, and a person that isn't less functional than before, but more so (because you are not standing in the way of the optimal rollout of Consciousness/Reality). Short form: "I am not a human, I have a human". To fully get it, you need to awaken to it. Or said differently: If you would fully understand all of the above, you would be realized. On how long its stays "haunted", and how much this haunted reaction lasts: I write more about that in my last post. Maybe that is interesting for you, and I hope I didn't miss the questions too much. If I would have known that back in the day, I would have been faster and could have avoided some time-consuming mistakes. That is why I write it, not to lecture anybody or proove any fixed ideas of mine. The Ego is in large parts a cluster of beliefs, which it has to defend life-or-death style, because for the Ego its exactly that (at least with important core-beliefs). Similiar to what the bear does in the video in the signature of the post. If its not useful for you, just disregard it. In case I rambled on, please excuse the deviation. Selling Water by the River PS: If anyone feels inclined to comment on the post, please check if the bear-move in the link below (signature of the post) is being performed or not, and preferably the Blackeyes Peas and "Where is the love" (or something similiar) is being played in your emotional continuum. Then, any questions, comments, and suggestions are even more welcome than when the song is not playing. PSPS: "If God as you say are exploring though us does that mean those two bodies in that conversation is not looking at each other but that God is imagining and holding both of them within itself? And all these ideas of eyes and perception that aren’t actually in my direct experience are the ways I’ve been taking a false ownership of what’s really God’s experience of the other body as something belonging to my body?" Yes, pretty much like that. Various aspects: 1) Leavitts Non-Euclidian perspectives style, and most perspectives forgotten + 2) Indras Net that any perspective reflects all others + 3) aspect that for example even an atom or molecule has some kind of proto-perspective, reacting on similiarly leveled perspectives (=Holons in Ken Wilbers system, and similiar leveled = other molecules). And Holons/Perspectives all the way down (to infinity, quarks, ....) and all the way up (to infinity, like Galaxy-governing-monads, Universe-governing-monads, Multiverse-creating/sustaining/governing monads, and infinitely higher up n+1, and also completely "OTHER" realms, unimaginable to human mind with space/time/.... For that, see Jac O'Keeffe). And then one could start wondering of how much of that one can have explored/understood of all that manifested stuff in one single human lifetime. Next to Nothing. Infinitesimal so to say, if one is mathematically-prone. So maybe instead one fully realize ones essence and structure of Ultimate Reality/True You as Infinite/Nondual/Absolute Reality/Infinite Consciousness, and LIVE THAT as much as possible? With the bliss it brings? Not to talk about the "hang-over" of the (imagined of course) good Karma/tendencies that brings for ones next imagined manifestation (only if one is inclined to believe in that, which is of course not absolutely real, but part of the imagined show). But that would still be nice for the big show that "we" are all celebrating here So basically, with that model above, you don't need space as self-existing reality. Any maybe consider replacing the God word with some bundle like "Infinite Consciousness/Reality/God/True You". Just to not project/make God some self-existing external reality outside of you. Ultimate Reality is nondual, Infinite Consciousness Nothingness perceiving its own manifestations, perceptions perceiving themselves without separate self elements "clouding" the true state of things. God is not somewhere outside. God is right here. What imagines all of that? Biggest possible accident: Projecting/Confusing the Individuality-Arisings of the Separate-Self-Gestalt on God/Reality/Infinite. That is the worst possible seductive kiss from Maya imaginable. Yet, quite a show....