Faceless

Before there can be any investigation about the real, the nature of the unreal must be explored very very deeply. Otherwise the real and the unreal gets muddled together and is taken as all together real or even taken as TRUTH. We cant explore the real until we understand the mechanism that explores, THOUGHT. Which means the unreal must be totally understood in its nature and how it moves. To understand it’s driving force.

Yes all things are not truth. But there is the real and the unreal. We are talking of the unreal. I am more interested in the much more subtle forms of self deception. Like how we escape our problems to such an idea “illusion” that everything is self deception. Do you see where I’m getting at. There are much more sublte and disguised forms of self deception within the structure of thought. This can be seen with exploration of the self.

Yes. Through self reflection in the understanding of nature of thought/self. Thought/self “the old” is the result and response to memory. If that memory being “static” is not carried over to the “dynamic now/the new” there is no movement “self/thought”...That is what is refered to as centerlessness. So If the movement of thought is in motion each “new/dynamic“ experiencing gets covered by that of the past “knowledge, past experiences, through memory. This is the field of time. This is the barreir to the timeless.

Cool. What have you taken away from that video? Anything you see as significant that can be shared here for others?

Oh no.. I didn’t think that one bit. I am following you I will get back to this in a bit. I must feed and get my baby boy ready for the day.

@Nahm Thank us

Yeah. There shouldn’t be any fear at all. If there is fear then the experiencer still remains. i think this has to do with memory.

That’s because the self’s very function is to maintain permanence. To fully and totally understand the self/mind can bring about a cessation of the very movement that feeds the self. Therefore it won’t be a conceptualization about the self being a product of mind but the self “knowledge, past experience, through memory” actully slows and can end. This is the final frontier to centerlessness.

I agree. After all anything of the mind is never truth. And yes routine is a B Routine when it comes to the psychological realm is very destructive. I understand what you are speaking of.

Yeah I knew what you meant after a second. That is very important to indeed.

I thought you were referring to experiencing without the veil of experience acting as a mirage

Are you sure? You are saying we “self” are the product of the mind right?

I think he is referring to primal ignorance. Which is beautiful. It is actully the highest form of intelligence. When the the movement of the self/thought/time ceases.....Centerlessness.

@Saumaya @Prabhaker Those are good ones. Thanks Anybody have any more?

Why do you want an enlightenment experience? And if if you have one do you understand yourself so completely that you totally leave that experience behind? If that experience is carried over to the light memory it then becomes projected on top of the next new moment experiencing. Then you are back to where you started. Are you aware of the nature of experience?

It's ok. I think you have gone into the theory/conceptualization a bit. I go into this more in non conceptual way. We can’t know reality “truth”. So we simply try and deal with everything in the conditioned mind, which is reality, the way I explained reality above. But have you gone into the nature of self/thought/experience in yourself personally. Until you do this your investigation will remain dualistic. And that will never bring about a cessation of thought. You can not answer those questions about consciousness empty of things, because that is not a fact for yourself. If your conciousness is full of things then it only knows things. It’s not about the accumulation of things “concepts/theory’s/ideas, to get to NO-THING. It’s about ending things in yourself actually. Which means the ending of the authority of experience. To not carry experience and place it upon “new experiencing’s” that’s where the movement of thought gets fed its energy. If you understand the whole nature of self/thought/experience you might be able to “actually” empty the contents and slow/end the movement of things in consciousness. So perhaps you will be able to come at this free of dualistic/divisive/limitation of experience. Because any attempt to understand No-thing with the movement/content of things “experience” is futile. The movement of thought can end, but one must understand totally self/thought/experience. If we do not understand this movement of the experiencer very deeply then the movement of thought/self will never cease. To understand oneself is essential. So explore the nature of thought/self/experience..This is something that one will do, well until one is no more. This is an art.

And what do you mean by reality?? Reality is the real and the unreal. We shouldn’t use reality for that which is beyond the conditioned mind either. Because you can not know that which is independent of mind. Mind implies things. So perhaps we could use TRUTH “unconditioned” in place of reality. Reality is everything we think about or reflect upon....Reality consist of actuality, fact, real, unreal, correct, and incorrect but never TRUTH. This way there can be a clear distinction between TRUTH “independent of thought “conditions” and reality “mutually dependent of conditions” THIS IS JUST A MUCH MORE EFFICIENT WAY TO DISCUSS SUCH A TOPIC.

The way your going about this will never bring about clarity for yourself. That’s not what I’m asking....Do you know what causes delusion?? You have witnessed people doing things to attain enlightenment/or truth right? All the tricks that you have seen/observed/read about.

Question 2# And if one claimed to have ended this self, by what means did they do so? These questions would have to be answered. What do you guys think

Is No-self just another delusion? We would have to ask ourselves what causes this delusion? Because until “NO-SELF” becomes an actuality it is still self “dualistic in nature” Question 1# What causes delusion??

Learn/understand the nature of fear and the complusion to escape to pleasure. Learn about yourself.

Do you see the contradiction and paving the way toward illusion in this?? We can go much deeper here.

If you are bound by fear your now is merely a continuation of the past. Therefore your now is based off your conclusions of the past. The now is “dynamic/new” the past is static/dead/and never new.” To meet the present moment with fear is not to meet the present moment at all. Look into that. It’s quite interesting indeed.

Illusions, illuisons, illusions, they will get you in the end.

There is no awareness until we understand the whole movement of the self/thought. Look at it very deeply...The escape to that idea “AWARENESS” is ”desire/will and the action of desire in the pursuit as pleasure. Until this is seen actually in ones self then there is only unawareness... This is how the conditioned consciousness moves. Self sustainment ”security” is its very function. perhaps you keep “forgetting” because you are not facing that fact “unawareness” check into this. If I have to point it out that means there is no awareness. If we can't identify contradiction then Illusion is inevitable. If Illusion/self deception are the fact then this “awareness is a romantic idea” heaven...after all the idea of heaven sprang up from the dualistic movement carried out by contradiction. Fear from what is to the idea of what should be. And the movement of duality creates heaven out of its opposite. But goodness is not born of that which is evil. Only the dualistic mind creates the opposite. And illusion/self deception is born. Thats right. And if it does what it likes there is no awareness, no freedom. We then are inslaved by what is meant to be used as a tool. Then every step you take perpetuates and will end in conflict. You will continue to seek security in illusion. And in that very doing create and maintain psychological insecurity. Actually yes it does. If you are caught in illusion you are not conscious. One is only conscious to the extent that they are free of the illusory, the inattention of the movement of mind. If you are merely seeking security than there is and will never be truth. That is illusion. To evade what is to an idea in the attempt to capture and maintain psychological security. If you are only interested in self soothing the ego, then the ego will continue to call the shots. And there will then be a life of contradiction, conflict, sorrow, and misery. If one seeks psychological security then one is not conscious/aware of WHAT IS. One must see WHAT IS actually the case , both inwardly and outwardly. WHAT IS does not choose. WHAT IS does not seek security...WHAT IS implies no movement of duality as the chooser. The ending of contradiction/division. Only an ego accumulated ideas. Only an ego seeks security in ideas, and defends them. Do you see that?? This may seem like an attack as ego/thought only cares about maintaining permanence. But if you drop all assumptions gathered by the ego you may find that any attempt to seek psychological security is the actual thing that causes that insecurity. Your choice my friends. It’s up to US to understand OURSELVES.