Carl-Richard

I'm starting to think maybe Turquoise is an incoherent stage due to the way the model was constructed, back with Clare Graves using person interviews. The problem of course boils down to the problem with WEIRD samples (Western, Educated, Industrialized, etc.); "Western people" for short. When Western people reach high Tier 1 or early Tier 2 and get statistically more familiar with New Age ideas, particularly Eastern-inspired non-duality, maybe this then becomes their new highest value system when asked about it in interviews, even though it's trans-personal/trans-cognitive and it's possible to happen earlier in the Spiral (like it has for millenia), producing what appears as Turquoise. Had instead the sample been more universal (including particularly people from Eastern cultures), then this confounding variable of Eastern spiritual beliefs would've been ruled out much more easily. So Turquoise essentially ends up becoming this bastardized mix of Green-Yellow cognition and Eastern spiritual ideas, only because we based the model on rich kids in American universities and not much else. But I would have to study the particular methods used in more in detail before making any firm conclusions.

The thing is if you don't engage in that hierarchy, then you just become a part of the other hierarchy of unread dorks who think they're original and think they've re-invented fire for the millionth time. Not long ago, I personally wanted to write a book about the relationship between flow, instrinic motivation, meaning, health, functionality, etc.; something which I felt I had discovered all by myself; but not long after, I realized that this has been talked about for millenia through concepts like eudaimonia, virtue, wisdom, etc. Probably the only favor I would've done to the world would've been to package the same ideas in my own clumsy and idiosyncratic language for people to spend their time scratching their heads over. If I were to "borrow" a concept from John Vervaeke, what you're talking about is called "rabbit hole epistemology" — burrowing yourself down in your own bullshit, which again at the end of the day becomes the same boring and unoriginal exercise, because so many people do it and end up unintentionally replicating the same uninformed low-resolution view on everything.

✋🥸 (That's a commie salute, not a Hitler salute )

🫡 Emojis are dots 😠 Change my mind 😌

I will personally appoint myself to Punctuation and Capitalization Moderator🫡

He has one PhD in computer science and another PhD in philosophy of mind (ontology). So you could say he is qualified to talk about both metaphysics and computer science. That said, a PhD just means you spent around 3 years writing about a very niche topic. I think having a life long personal interest in something, given that you're able to put yourself through the same level of rigor and discipline on your free time, goes way deeper than a PhD. This is evident by the fact that Bernardo only spent 1 year (and one week) completing his last PhD because he had basically already written all of it before he started. He is not a materialist. He is an idealist who is not allergic to scientific thinking. And that is why I admire him.

Lonely coomers are still lonely. Nothing societal about it. It's biological. You're made to be touched.

Me. I'm a Carl 🤡 No idea. And anybody who tells you they know, probably very definitely don't know.

Me neither. I don't know how to distinguish Yellow from Turquoise in any principled way.

This is one big reason why people think AIs are conscious. They look at a computer and think "magic". Meanwhile, if you actually study the engineering down to being able to build these things essentially from scratch, then these things start to look less magical and more mundane. Then the true mysteries like consciousness are understood to be nowhere near such mundane activities like building tiny electrical circuits. This is what I intuit from listening to Bernardo Kastrup, someone who has studied computer engineering to the deepest levels, to being able to build computers from scratch on his spare time, and who has worked with some of the most advanced computer technology professionally, and who also knows a thing or two about metaphysics. When he looks at a computer, he sees water pipes and valves, completely mundane things, and he scoffs at people who think it has anything to do with consciousness. I'm fascinated by this, as I've always wanted to know how computers work, but just like you, I never took the time to get into it.

You're a mammal. Do the things.

Haha. I actually think I had the thought: "what if I told him I sometimes listen to 'satanic' Black Metal music by people who literally burned down churches?"

I was approached by a Jehova's witness on the street while hanging up a poster to my study, and I was like "yeah, I'm into what you could call religion, took some courses on the psychology of religion" etc., and he was essentially like "yeah, but my religion is true though" 🥲

Ruth Underwood playing Frank Zappa's music on piano in the piano room at Juilliard and an employee coming into the room saying "What's that?" "That doesn't sound like the kind of music we play here!" "Get out!" 😝😅

The simplest way is for the general public to become pedophiles themselves. And that might even become a real possibility with the increasing amount of questionable anime watchers (I'm not judging of course 😗). More seriously, just blast them with statistics like "most child molesters are not pedophiles". Exactly how? I dunno. Honestly, you'll probably have a better time trying to make Young Earth Creationists empathize with Matt Dillahunty.

Don Beck who created Spiral Dynamics made Leo retract that video because it misrepresented Turquoise (like you were doing in the start of this thread). Nevertheless, if you dont know what Turquoise is (neither Beck's or Wilber's conception of it), you're most likely not Tier 3. (In Beck's model, there is no Tier 3). It doesn't hurt to learn more about it if you otherwise spend a lot of time thinking about it. Besides, it's one thing to talk about what you personally think is the highest value or stage of development, but it's another to learn about a model that somebody else made.

But do you know what Turquoise is?

Two things: Firstly, now you're talking about Ken Wilber's model, not Spiral Dynamics as conceived by Don Beck. And obviously you're no longer talking about Turquoise. But now I wonder what you think Turquoise is if not non-duality? Secondly, while you might have had non-dual experiences that might have even caused a transformation in your day to day experience, from what I understand from Ken Wilber's model, Tier 3 is essentially the embodiment of non-duality + being at Turquoise. But I haven't studied Wilber's model in detail, so take what I say with a grain of salt. Now, if you don't know what Turquoise is, it's unlikely that you're at Tier 3.

But even then, it might not work for you 😜

Transmutation is something that happens naturally, and transmutation to the extent where you don't need to fap will happen when you're ready for it. Until then, I say don't worry about it. You can significantly maintain the benefits of no fap by just fapping at longer intervals, and then you'll also keep the side effects under control.

Hmm, I just watched this video: I was there in the audience where the audio was taken from btw 😊, and the visualizations gave me an interesting new perspective on that talk. I think the visualizations could've helped many people in the audience, especially when he was talking about fields and the different theories of vision.

@Reciprocality While on the topic of understanding and learning new things: https://twitter.com/sapinker/status/1084490338629242880

I don't get what the problem is.

Try to chill out a little about being the spirituality police in every thread.

That's really interesting. The masculine can be thought of as the judger, divider, reducer, so if you drop that to zero, maybe you'll be more receptive to experiences of acceptance, lack of division, wholeness, oneness. Besides, hearing stories of the side effects of massive doses of anabolic steroids; anxiety, violent fantasies, rage, lack of positive emotions, lack of experiences of beauty; surely, the inverse of that looks lighter somehow. Or maybe it's when you combine anabolics with already pathological mechanisms (self-focus, insecutity, ego) that you get that, which likewise on the other end of the extreme (zero test, high female hormones) could probably manifest as histrionic, borderline and other flaky behavior.