Forestluv

Also consider working on relativism. It is one of the keys to stage yellow stage.

That’s like asking a billion dollar lottery winner how many lottery tickets they bought. Sure, buying more tickets improves one’s chances, yet once you win, how many tickets you bought becomes irrelevant.

You are asking me to be reasonable, which is challenging for me. I’m still developing that skill.

That view uses a hierarchal framework. Imagine a community of shamans. They only used the term “shaman” with those that were unawakened.

For some, a mild dose of 5-meo is very pleasing. Some use it recreationally. Therapeutic *is* personal development. The intention is to create a healthier *person*. Spirituality goes far deeper than the person. The person is within something deeper. Regarding psychedelic therapy, various studies consistently show staistically-significant benefits. In the U..S., were are now at phase III clinical trials for MDMA therapy for PTSD. The stage II trials involved severe PTSD patients in which no other form of treatment worked. After a few MDMA sessions, 2/3rds of patients no longer qualified as having PTSD based on DSM criteria. Three-year follow-ups showed the effect is long term. They were cured of PTSD similiar to how one is cured of cancer.

Because the view is pre-transcendant. All of those teachers and students are within something deeper. Keep digging deeper.

And would Mario need a therapist? ?

Imagine transcending teachers and students.

This goes much deeper than disagreement, me and Leo.

Go deeper to see what you cannot see.

I don’t accept your view of “enlightenment”.

I don’t consider psychedelics to “belong” to anything. Intentions for psychedelics include: recreational, therapeutic and spiritual. No intention is more valid than another intention and one can transcend all intentions.

There is no need for therapists in an enlightened community. Delusion is dissolved and there is no self to treat.

What would a psychologist treat if there was no self?

I lived within an awakened community in the mountains of Peru. There was no need for therapists.

If other areas of spirituality resonate with you, great - go for it. Regarding psychedelics within spirituality, this is a naive view.

So true ?

This seems like an assumption that the sober state of mind is more real than the psychedelic state of mind. Rather than asking whether the trip was just an hallucination, why not ask if your sober perspective is just an hallucination?

That is Orange level thinking ? Sometimes Orange tools come in handy ? . Other times green tools, other times Yellow. Sometimes an integration. . .

I’ve blacked multiple times on psychedelics. It can be disorienting and unsetting when regaining consciousness. Yet, for me, they are not like you describe. They are not like an alcohol blackout. Psychedelics are post-rational and beyond ego - being in control and rational is dissolved whether it is a “good” or “bad” trip. In the sub ego death zone, I have experienced anxiety and fear of harm impulses. I’ve learned that is a construct of my ego to avoid surrender. That which lies beyond the ego has no interest in causing harm to me or others.

I speak from a humanist view.

@graded24 Welcome to the forum! There are plenty of people here interested in learning more about quantum mechanics and metaphysics. It’d be cool to start a mega-thread. Your post is sooo awesome. I need some time to contemplate it and will return with questions.

@7thLetter Immaturity and insecurity

@FredFred Great questions! I’ve thought about this myself. Does quantum phenomena apply at the macro level? We are begging to realize it may at the molecular level. Quuantum biology has recently begun to emerge. Exciting times!

You are assuming the egoic delusional state is less delusional than the psychedelic delusional state.