Forestluv

♥️ ?

An occasional hippie music festival can be a fun way for Yellow to get a shot of Green without losing independence.

That is a big expansion of love. When I see abuse, I feel compassion for both abuser and abused. They are both suffering and acting out conditioning. There is plenty of delusion. I would also want to stop anymore abuse and then try to help both of them. Stopping the abuse may involve temporarily removing the abuser from society. Hopefully, we could help that person get better. Similarly, when I see a religious person indoctrinating others, I see someone acting out their own indoctrination. I would support bringing awareness to the indoctrination to reduce harm. Yet I wouldn’t hate on someone acting out their own indoctrination. I was hard-core indoctrinated into a religion as a child. It’s really hard to work through. I’m still deconstructing some of that crap - 30 years later. . . And yes, the prison system here in America is messed up.

And what if they don’t have the resources to do so? What if their brain and body has been messed up? What if nobody loves them? What if people hate them? How on earth can such a person heal and get better? I volunteered in a psychiatric ward of a hospital for years. Many abused people never had the chance to heal. They were never loved, They were treated like shit their whole life.

That is a different issue. You just bypassed the compassion issue. We can temporarily remove a person if they are abusing others - so this person does not abuse others. Yet we can do so while loving this person and with compassion. We can try to help this abused person heal. You originally said you hate the people doing the abuse. That is a different issue.

@mandyjw Yes. ♥️ ?

You don’t understand the physiological and psychological dynamics of child abuse. This is one reason the cycle continues. There is a lot of science showing long-term brain and physiological alterations to child abuse - into adulthood. As well, I think volunteer work with adults that have been abused as children deepens one’s understanding. It did for me. You are essentially saying that you are allowed to act out your conditioning, yet hate those that act out their conditioning. People that abuse others are not doing from love - they are acting out their trauma and inner hell.

Ok. Imagine a child has been abused. He has been traumatized. His brain and body have been conditioned in terrible ways. The kid is suffering terribly. We now know that these physiological changes persist into adulthood. Their brains are rewired. You say you have compassion for this abused child. You seem to be saying your compassion is conditional. In what ways can this traumatized child behave that is acceptable to you so you will maintain your compassion for him? What are your compassion “deal-breakers”? For example, if the traumatized person acted out their inner hell by cutting themself, would you still have compassion for them? What if they had a PTSD traumatic episode and screamed profanities at someone? Would you still have compassion for them? What does a traumatized person need to do to go from your compassion list to your shit list?

Wait a second, I’m confused now. You previously said you felt bad for children that are abused. Now you are saying a child being abused is “sad”. Those are two different things. Do you feel bad and have compassion for abused children or do you merely think child abuse is “sad”.

My age question was not about ethics. You say you feel compassion for children that are indoctrinated and abused, yet seem to hate those same abused children when they are adults. When does your compassion for indoctrinated abused children end?

@DrewNows Yes Anthony. I haven’t watched his stuff in the last couple of years. I watched a couple of his workshop videos. At that time he was a self described atheist trying to wake up irrational religious followers. He had an agenda to bring them ip to irrational thinking. Essentially from Blue stage yo Orange stage. He was a bit sneaky about it, since he didn’t tell this intention to his interviewees. Yet I thought he was non-confrontational and respectful. I think he is generally a good advocate to help people evolve Blue to Orange. The world needs people like that. I can’t do it anymore, since I no longer identify with rationalism.

In your op, you said you are upset with religious people because they are arrogant, stigmatize and brainwash others. Now you are saying you are upset about the victims. Those people you seem to hate have also been indoctrinated, brainwashed and abused. They are living out their own childhood indoctrination. When do you lose compassion for them? On their 18th birthday?

Why is this problem upsetting to you?

I used to be really into those street epistemology videos. The psychology of it is fascinating and I think it can be helpful for some people. I think he does it in a respectful way. Yet he also has attachments and identification with beliefs he considers rationale. As well as a subtle agenda. He is not purely curious about why people hold their beliefs as he tells his interviewees. He is trying to steer them toward what he considers rational thinking. I’ve seen seminars of his describing strategies on how to do this. Overall I think it’s good to encourage people to question and observe their beliefs, yet I sense a subtlety sneaky agenda with him. Yet I suppose nearly all humans as a fundamental component of an ego. It seems to get subtler and subtler as we evolve. I was seriously considering doing his style of street epistemology at one time

Is god self embodiment limited to humans?

I can see value in that view. I can also see a view in which teaching someone they are a finite, separate self is incredibly harmful. It is the basis of human suffering.

I would say AL-LAD is milder and easier to integrate insights. I think it's great for those new to psychedelics and those that may have anxiety issues.

I have made that same argument many times in the past and think it has some value to it. Yet I now also considered another perspective. I can see suffering related to indoctrination of "irrational" beliefs. Yet, I also see suffering related to indoctrination of "rational" beliefs. As well, I can see that what many consider "rational" beliefs are actually irrational. I would say trans-egoic post-rational modes of being have far less pain and suffering than egoic rational thinking modes. Is teaching egoic delusional rational beliefs to be maltreatment? By your rationale it seems like it would be. So why don't people just teach their children trans-egoic post-rational modes of being? . . . I would say because they lack the maturity and development to so.

I'm learning there is something going on here beyond simply being sensitive to other people's feelings. Sometimes I think of it an empathic line of development - it isn't cognitive. When I was at immature stages it was so distorted and I got tossed around emotionally. More recently, it seems there is some type of ability here - a way of sensing the environment that many others aren't in tune with. Like a sixth sense. Perhaps everyone has this ability and doesn't realize/develop it - or perhaps some are "gifted" with it - perhaps genetically. At times, it seems so obvious and simple - I'm perplexed others can't "see" it. Yet for some, concepts of physics and bench-pressing 300lbs comes easy - yet not to me. For me, the most important thing was to set up boundaries and develop what some call a "shield". Once that was in place, I started realizing that this "curse" that was associated to so much inner turmoil, can kinda be cool. It allows a very different type of relationship and beingness with the environment. It used to just manifest with other people - usually negatively. Now I can be out in nature and things can get "weird" with how I interact with trees, animals and earth - yet in a good way. Now, I'm trying to develop this empathic line - mostly on my own. I don't know of any mature conscious people that are highly developed on the empathic line. I'm also trying to develop ways in which I can "translate" and communicate this sense in ways that others can understand.

You asked "how do you accept/love yourself fully". A cure needs a disease. A solution needs a problem. A right needs a wrong. Awareness reveals the nature of both that which is criticized and that which criticizes. Then, understanding of the relationship arises. For me, the greatest insights were revealed with shamanic breathing. It involves both mind and body.

Thank you. Your idea also widened my view. It revealed a window with a new view

There is awareness which is detached and disidentified. A selfless awareness observes the underlying psychological dynamic as it is revealed. Trying to solve, tackle and change self criticism is a form of self criticism within the underlying psychological dynamic. It may provide relief and reduce the intensity of impact to one's mind-body, yet it won't deconstruct and dissolve the underlying dynamic.

I’d like to change “man” to “being” to also include our plant and animal friends. ? ? ? What do you think?

@LoveandPurpose I found bringing awareness to self criticism to be helpful. It was a psychological dynamic conditioned into me.

@Paul92 Thank you for sharing your thoughts. We had some interesting convos. I wish you well with whatever arises ♥️ ?