Forestluv

There comes a time when it becomes a waste of time. If I wanted help with my knee pain and someone went on and on about how the pain is caused because my parents told me there was no Santa Claus to soon, it’s just a waste of time. It’s not going to help my knee. I would leave that conversation and go find a osteopath or physical therapist that has knowledge and wisdom regarding knee injuries and can help me.

An accurate diagnosis is a critical skill as well and at the highest level involves multiple modes of being. If I tell an Olympic weightlifter is problem is he is too muscular and needs to lose 100 pounds so he is within is BMI, that is a misdiagnosis - it doesn’t matter how much I play devil with him. . . .Yet in other contexts with a clear vision, playing devil can be helpful. Seeing complex situations clearly takes a lot of maturity and skill.

It’s context. Please don’t take what I say out of context. I am saying when there is a misdiagnosis of a situation and the other person is trapped there story, then I would leave the conversation. For example, if I came looking for help about my runner’s knee pain and someone said the pain is due to repressed emotions from my childhood trauma and I lacked humility to look at this, I would wish them the best and move on to someone that understand what I was asking about. A mind often it assumes it can see a situation clearly and becomes attached/identified to the story it creates

@Mu_ To elaborate on your point, sometimes a mind creates a problem it sees in another. So many times, people have created all sorts of “issues” about me and what I need to do to “work through” it. When I reply “no. . . actually I wasn’t abused by my father”. The other may respond “Well you must be ignorant and have repressed emotions about these abuse issues. You lack humility and courage to address these issues”. If someone treated me like that, I would wish them the best and remove myself from the conversation. . . Recently, some random person said I was suffering from untreated multiple personality disorder. When I tried to explain that I don’t have those symptoms, he replied that I was in denial and needed to have some humility to work through this and heal. I was like “uh ok, I wish you the best” and I moved on.

@DrewNows Thank you for the clarification. Personally, I wouldn’t make the assumption that “a lot of inner work needs to be done”. @bejapuskas we each have our personal filters based on the story we have created about “me”, “my experiences” and “how things are”. If a mind is limited to this particular filter, it will interpret stimuli through this filter. It is a contracted mind state. For example, someone may speak of loneliness. This goes through the perceiver’s filter - through their experience and thought stories about what loneliness means. The stories of their own loneliness, all the videos they watched about loneliness, all they personal work they put into loneliness and what should be done when loneliness arises. When they hear another speak of loneliness, it goes through their own personality filter. Like a projector, it projects images into a screen. These are relative, limited, contracted images. Attachment and identification with such experiences and thought story will keep the mind in a contracted state. . . As I reflect on loneliness, I would say I can make several distinctions of loneliness. I’ve experienced perhaps four distinct forms. I’d say two of those is at the personal level involving personal psychological dynamics to repressed emotions, past trauma, insecurity etc. Yet there are also transcendent post-personal forms of loneliness that is “above” these tier1 personal need-based personality construct dynamics. Of course, there can be inter-relatedness between the two - especially as a mind-body transitions into tier2. If I had to guess, this is the main dynamic of the OP. It is a green-yellow hybrid transition, more expansive and sophisticated than what some seem to be reducing it to. . . . The tier1 to tier2 transition is absolutely enormous. Cognitive thinking is just one aspect. It goes waaay beyond that. Notice statements like “you are this”, “loneliness is this”, “Yellow is this”, “You need to do this”. These are are reflective of contraction, attachment and identification. A contracted view. It offers grounding and stability, yet it prevents exploration, discover and expansion. Along the lines f the OP, I live in a small town. I’m fairly athletic and like to do outdoorsy recreation. Very few people in my town are oriented like this. They are much more docile and do outdoor activities like fishing. I’m more into running and cycling. The nearest city to me is an hour away. So, I do most of my outdoor activities solo. It can be lonely at times. This loneliness has nothing to do with past trauma, repressed emotions or family disjunction. Dumping that stuff on to me would be portrayal of one’s own experience and storyline. At times, At times, I would just like to share these sporty activities with others. Similar to what the OP described, it can be challenging to create healthy social networks.

@Mezanti I also have a schizophrenic and had the same concern. There are a lot of variables that combine to yield schizophrenia. From a scientific perspective, we estimate it’s about 2/3 genetic and 1/3 environmental. Having an affected family member suggests higher risk, yet there is degree to that risk. There are dozens of genes involved and it’s a very complex network - then that “internal” network interacts and is modified by the environment. Having a second order relative, such as an uncle, only marginally increases the risk - only about 2% higher than the general population. My impression is that there aren’t any schizophrenic symptoms you are currently experiencing. That these symptoms are “out there” and you may be vulnerable to “catching” them since you have an affected family member. If so, that is precisely where I was prior to my first trips. Based on what I’ve read an ime, I would take greater precautions, yet not go overboard. The clinical studies did screen out people with a family history of schizophrenia. This is precautionary. During stage 1 and 2 trials the researchers want to select the best candidates, so they select individuals with PTSD, depression, alcoholism etc. without schizophrenia or a family history of schizophrenia. It’s an extra complicating variable we just don’t want in the trials and we want to limit any potential side effects and harm to the individual as much as possible. So, we just don’t know. We don’t have any scientific empirical data on this, just fragments of anecdotal reports online. However, there was a meta study that examined if the psychedelic therapy sessions increased the frequency of post-treatment psychosis, suicide etc. There was no significant difference between control and experimental groups. Yet keep in mind the participants were in a control setting - they had received therapy before and after the trip and the trip setting was very comfortable and safe. So I would be a bit more cautious. I would start with a small dose and create a comfortable, relaxed tripping environment. I would be mindful of my own tendencies regarding anxiety. Are you more of a “go with the flow” kinda guy? Or do you generally like more structure and grounding and knowing what’s going on? Imagine you went on a three day meditation to retreat and found out there is no schedule. For three days, you won’t know what happens next. You just go with whatever arises. Would that be relaxing or stressful to you? Or imagine you are in Guatemala riding a Turk-Tuk into a remote village to buy some hand-maid scarfs. Once you are in the middle of nowhere, the driver says “we are going to head to another place”. Would you naturally be like “Cool! What an adventure!”. Or would anxiety arise like”Whoa, what’s happening. Where are we going? This could be bad.”. Psychedelics can allow a mind to explore different perceptions of reality. Yet the mind “comes back” and one can integrate the experience to expand their consciousness. I would just be cautious, as if you are scuba diving. Your first time, you wouldn’t buy used scuba gear on eBay with no instructions, try to figure it out on your own and then go out into the Pacific Ocean for a solo dive, hoping for the best. Here would be a high risk it doesn’t turn out so well and afterwards one might feel traumatized and swear they will never go scuba diving again.

@Shin I think development along empathetic, emotional and intuitive lines are key in this area. With less emphasis on the cognitive, analytical line.

It’s not so much harsh judgements, it’s inaccurate judgements. Responding to someone asking Yellow level questions about inter-personal communication within social structures by suggesting she has repressed emotions, trauma and family disfunction is way off the mark. Its like someone coming to a doctor for help with an eye infection and he thinks she broke her leg because she had been neglecting her family. It’s not the harshness, it’s an incorrect filter and inability to relate and intuit what is being communicated. I’ve had very similar communication challenges when I’m in yelliw mindsets. It can be very lonely due to inability to communicate on this wavelength with everyone around me. I only have two people in real life I can have tier2 discussions with. It can be lonely and I’ve thought a lot about how to create a healthy social life. It’s not about repressed emotions, past traumas or dysfunctional family dynamics.

@Yellow_Girl I can relate to the feeling of lonliness with a Yellow mindset and how difficult it can be to communicate. I think you ask some great questions regarding how to create and live within social networks. I hope you return to discuss more. I’m a big fan of Yellow level discussions ? @ajasatya Wrong lens, way off. Inappropriate portrayals.

The ego loves the narrative that it will figure this thing out, become enlightened and act however it pleases. Not only does this keep the ego in The Game, it is the star of the show! ?

Of course not. There is the relative human experience. ♥️ ?

The construct of “me” is within a more expansive consciousness. The term “awakening” suggests a “before” and “after” awakening. This an an imaginary door within a timeline. It can be useful at the personal level, yet it would be more accurate to simply say there is awakeness, rather than “I have awakened”. I think taking one step back from the personality and simply saying “There is ISness” can be helpful at the personal level since it removes personal attachment and identification.

A general comment: please don’t hijack threads. The OP has requested it get back on topic. ?

@Jed Vassallo Today is day five. I’ve been vaping freebase thus far - about 1-3mg. I’m not weighing it out. Intensity ranges from light to strong. I’ll be introducing plugging soon. Likely today. Vaping offers higher resolution.

?? ?

Yes. It is more expansive than it’s own belief. It has no limits. Limits are imaginations that appear within the mind. Those appearances are within what IS. It’s right Now. A direct experience without an experiencer.

It is more expansive than knowledge. All knowledge is within it. You are all knowledge and much much more.

There is a fundamental difference more than language. The “little you” is within something much more expansive.The infinity of what is Now.

You don’t come to know what god is. You are God.

Nice insight ?? ?

Beautiful ♥️ ?

I should add that what I wrote about imaginations is also an imagination - yet I can’t see any way around that.

I’m experimenting with daily 5-meo trips (once per day). In the past, I’ve had “breakthroughs” consciousness within the trip. Afterwards, there is plenty time to recover and integrate (2-8 weeks). Here, there is a new element are with consecutive days. Today there was “breakthrough” consciousness within the series of daily trips. Not like an “ah ha!” realization after a breakthrough trip. This was more like a transcendent breakthrough over a collective series of trips.

Ideas of what dual and nondual perspectives are like are imaginations of the mind. Nothing wrong with that. Yet there is also a transcendence of that. Similarly permanent and impermanent is an imagination. There is transcendence of that also.

The gaps between thought storms is a great way to describe it. ?? Sometimes the mind-body is caught in the storm and it’s miserable. Yet there is also a peaceful place to rest with the storm occurring “outside”. It is a very different experience. Here, even storms can be beautiful to watch and experience.