Samra

@MM1988 thanks for the honest answer. I think you are not too far off. You might have become too bitter. Maybe you are in love with one of these girls , and the rejection is hard. Treat women with love and respect, and show them your are trustworthy. The JP stuff are not all good. Follow your own natural manly gut. Forget about the bullshit on the internet. I will step out of this thread cause it's just weird. But I wish for you a nice romantic love soon.

@MM1988 why you hit on your friends? Are you guys really friends , or you have ulterior motives? If you do have other motives, would you ultimately call that a friendship? Can your "friend" trust you , or you are not trustworthy?

@MM1988 do you have any girl friends? Just friends

This thread gives me the chills though. I agree and resonate with @Emerald on this issue. You guys need to hang out with women just to make some friendships first. I knew all of my boyfriends before I dated any of them, either from work, school, classes or friend of a friend , or even my friend! I was friend with my partner for one year before we really went for it. You never know. I have never dated a stranger. You guys talk about women as if we are not human. We are not that different. Maybe try and get to know us first a little bit so you can see for yourself. You wanna be with someone who you can hang out with first. Make real connections , and sexual relationships will happen naturally.

If you don't mind, I'll add something to this. The truth you are talking about is subjective, which comes from the perspective of an ego , and it's an illusion. If you were another human being, or another animal, your truth would have been different. And that is the proof that this truth is subjective. I know , this sounds wrong and horrible at first. If you go beyond this point, the truth of suffering, your love and compassion will come from an even deeper, calmer more accepting place, and real change can happen. See ugliness as beauty. Accept the imperfection as perfection. You don't need to change your moral, but you need to grow your acceptance to be inclusive. Don't take sides in this game of survival and suffering.

@Preetom Thank you ,will do. I am not concerned with enlightenment though. Its not on top of my list. Im just curious.

I hope I can put this understanding into words. I have intuitively known that all beings are "I" s. So when I look or think of another person, I right away become them. And this is beyond just empathy. But there is something else (or isn't in better words). There is no other type of "I", that i know of. I don't know any aliens. This is a big revelation for me. Has anyone ever experienced or encountered another type of "I", unknown to their nature of "I"? There is none. There is only one I. How can there be any other type of I ? Maybe in another realm?

@metwinn yes i guess so! So Alien is the the other I that you cannot switch roles with it. So the question is, can I switch my role with an existence such as a microbe? I think so. @Preetom Thank you! But i need to contemplate on this more. I want to be skeptical about this. I want to be 100 percent sure, that there is no other type of "I". "The fool who persists in his folly will become wise." World is a mysterious place. You can't find something you are not looking for. @Highest Physical world is not a certainty, but awareness is a certainty? how you know awareness is a certainty? I'd like to know. @Danelius Thanks for the reply. I need to think more about what you say.

Switching your identity with theirs briefly. Imagination and role playing.

Oh man. I'm trying, but I'm not very good at explaining. There is only one type of "I" . Even a mosquito is the same "I". Have you ever experienced any other type? No! An alien "I"? And I don't mean alien not from earth. I mean like mother Ayahusaca alien. A completely different entity that you cannot comprehend as your own "I". It doesn't exist. There is only one type of exsistance than I know of.

Ram Dass had a lot of issues with his father and his family after he left his old life. Listen to some of his recordings on YouTube. They are lovely. There is one that he has a family reunion right after a night of LSD. It's quite nice and funny.

@lmfao thanks for sharing. Once I read your post, I realize I'm in a very predicament as you. I don't understand love the way most people do , and that's my biggest challenge. My mother was not abusive, but she had extreme depression and didn't want to interact with me. I have an amazing father, and so I'm independent and financially successful. Too independent. Most relationships of mine ended with "I can't be someone who doesn't love me." So you are not alone on this journey. That doesn't make the spiral dynamics inapplicable for us, it just shows the work we need to do. Everyone's work is different. Some need to work on discipline, some on their addiction, some need to understand love and compassion. The fact that you are here and sharing this means that you are already half way there.

I think anyone who is on this forum is open to change, at least partially

Have you tried Ayahusaca? You need to be clean for a month (absolutely no less than two weeks) to do a ceremony. The ritual of preparation and integration alone might give you a head start. Maybe it will give you the insight you need.

... After the Shamans sang our songs, I went back to my mattress. I could feel vibrations and the effects of the songs within me. They were working their magic. I started seeing and becoming one with the plant. The plant showed me that my mother is not a human. No ones mother is a human. There is no human. And everything starting going back in time. And everything became one simple plant. He/She said, I am your mother. You are me. Then everything started to go even further into nothingness. And all sensory systems disappeared. I started seeing the original fabric of existence. It was made of two linear lines. Floating and dancing, changing colours, playing with each other. Sometime after that the ceremony ended. I through up right before the last song at the request of the alien within, and it made me feel better. As i walked out of the spaceship, I was blown away by the stars in the night sky. For the fist time in my life, I could see the Milky way. My friend joined me soon after. We picked up bunch of blanket, went on the big porch balcony in pitch black, and slept under the stars for some time. Day 2: In the morning, we all gathered in the same room, cleaning up after our own mess, and cleaning our buckets. We all shared details of our journey to each other and to the Shamans. To my surprise, most people didn't have any visuals. Most people had physical and emotional insights. Some just had a hard night, throwing up violently. That somehow fed my ego. I was proud of myself for seeing so many beautiful things, whilst others didn't. I though to myself ( that's because I am an artist and I have a super creative mind). This ego backlash came to hunt me at night. On this day, I made couple of mistakes in retrospect. I slept in the afternoon, from 1 pm to 5:30 pm. Although the Shamans suggested that, it made me super drowsy. Also I think i ate more than I needed. So by 9 pm, i was still not hungry. I started running around the retreat, trying to burn some energy and feel more alive. Nothing really worked. I went in the ceremony not in a great mood. Like the first night, Ceremony started and everybody had a cup of the medicine. I soon started to feel the effect. However, no visuals. I wanted to see. I needed to see the visuals again i thought to myself. My ego took over, I was in so much control. I was so frustrated at myself. After sometime, the Shamans offered a second drink, no one went for it. So even though i wasn't really feeling high, i didn't go either. An hour later, two guys went for a second cup. It was then that the plant ( or the ego) asked me to for the second cup. I was in doubt, but i heard the voices in me, "i thought you are ready for this. I though you wanted an ego death. I though you wanted to know me. Why are you being a pussy now." So i went in front of the Shaman for the second cup. The Shaman looked me with doubt. But he offered me a little bit. I literally had a sip, half the amount the Shaman offered me. As soon as i got back to my seat, I started seeing visuals again. "Now we are talking!" I though to myself. But the visuals were in pure. They were forced. They were mine, not a gift from the plant. I accepted that and enjoyed my trip anyways. Sometime after that, the ceremony ended, and my trip didn't. I tried throwing up, nothing cam out. I was so dizzy. Everybody left the room. I went to my room to my friend. She had an amazing night. She had cried and felt so much love. And she had seen so many beautiful visuals. I hadn't experienced any of that. Jealousy took over. We went to bed, and my real trip started. I had heard about bad trips before, but i have never really experienced it. I now know what hell is like. I was in so much agony. Physically, emotionally , spiritually. I could see darkness taking over me. My breath became toxic. My blood pressure dropped. I was dying, but not in a nice way. I was fading away and joining the dark forces. Light was gone. And thats when i started getting a lot of insights. I told myself: You have brought this on yourself by being a control freak, you accept the responsibility. Face it all. Face this moment. And i faced all the sadness, hate, suffering. I faced my ugliest form: I am impure. I am weak. I am alone. My parents are dying. War is coming. No one likes me. I have no friends. I have no talent. I am such a mediocre artist. I am a failure. I dont deserve love. I dont know love. I dont deserve a good life. This is all fake. I am so fake. I am such a pity. Nothing matters. No one will save me.... I faced all of myself. I was dying. From inside myself, I called up thousands of Roman soldiers to come to my protection. All these gladiators surrendered me. But a powerful female entity appeared, and melted all the soldiers away. She said there is no escaping this. Face it. So i faced it all. It never got easier. This went on for an eternity. I though i am lost in this madness forever. To be honest, even now, i am still not sure if I totally got out. Sometime past. I was able to get out of the bed. I needed to get the alien out of body. My friend woke up as well. We went to kitchen, and i had gallons of water. Finally something came out. Still feeling dizzy and weak, we went to our room. My friend came to my rescue. She so full of love, lied beside me, gently cresting my hair, telling me it will be alright. I let her go to sleep, and i went back to my own darkness. Around 8 am, I fell sleep. I think i slept for an hour total that night. Around 9 I woke up. Feeling dizzy and weak. But I was reborn. I survived the night of the dark soul. I congratulated myself. Went out of the room. At 10 , we had breakfast and shared our night experience. Most people had a fantastic night. So many insights, so much love. So many beautiful visuals. My night stood out like a swore thumb. I cried and was shaking the whole time describing my experience. Both Shamans looked at me with their wise eyes and smiled. I was so humbled. I am just an old child. Thank you.

@Gladius My intention was to have an ego death. But the plant does as it likes, and you just go with it And it showed me my life purpose, i was not expecting that. I guess i wasn't ready for an ego death I read your trip report. Sounds fascinating!

@Gladius Sounds like you had a one hell of an amazing journey thank you for sharing! You seemed to have gone deeper than me in some respects. I was still in control on my trips i think. I totally get when you said, by the end of first not you decided not to attend the second night, but by the next day you couldn't wait Every ceremony will be different. You don't get the trip that you want, you get what you need. You can have an intention before you go in, but the plant will show you what it wants. I would do a ceremony at least once a year if you have connected with the plant. Its a good idea to work on the teachings you have received before you attend another ceremony. Don't overthink things Be chill and live your life

@Charlotte @Sparkist thank you lovelies <3

Ayahusaca Trip report : June 2018 I arrived in Lisbon, Portugal on a Wednesday and met up with my friend who has flown from Canada. We had lots of fun exploring the beautiful city of Lisbon and catching up. Next day, we rented a car and drove three hours to our retreat. We met with all the other super interesting people who were there for the ceremony. There was a total of 12 of us. I had an interview with one of our Shamans. She asked about myself and my intentions, as well as any previous experiences with any drugs or psychedelics and all the other important details. Around 9 pm, we all gathered around in a beautiful glass room called Spaceship for obvious reasons. We had our Purge ceremony. Basically, you drink a horrible Tobacco medicine, and after some time, you drink gallons of water, until you throw up. It is not pleasant, but after you are super clear and you have this amazing sensation. Bunch of us gathered in the backyard, and talked about ourselves and intentions and experiences. I made couple of lovely connections which i will never forget. Next day, we had a very healthy breakfast. No salt, no suger,.... We had an even simpler lunch at 1 pm. Around 3 pm, me, my friend and bunch of other people went to a beautiful beach near by, high above the cliffs. The beauty was mesmerising. I sat on top of the cliffs, and meditated and contemplated for a while. Once we got back to the retreat, I found another glass meditation room and just stayed there by myself, trying not to get tangled up with conversations with other people. Most people were doing the same thing. We were all preparing for our journey. Around 9 pm, everyone gathered in the Spaceship. The Shamans told us were to sit. The had paired people up for based on some sort of logic. The Shamans who are a couple, had a very interesting of singing their Icarus songs. They each sing a different song with a different beat. At first it was very confusing, but soon it made my brain do a funny thing. It would split my consciousness and brain activity in two. I got to love it by the end. After an hour of taking the medicine , I still couldn't really feel anything. People were already throwing up, so I though something must be wrong with me. I was getting frustrated and thought maybe i am not worthy. It was then when the Shamans called for anyone who wants a second cup. Almost everyone got up. I managed to go as well. This was quite surprising to me, since i had a very hard time last year. It seemed that my body and mind have become much more tolerant and stronger. Within minutes of having the second cup, the plant started talking to me. I started shaking and feeling pain all over my body. I felt an alien going through my veins. It was a horrible pain. I realised this must be how a heroin addict must feel like. And I learned compassion. The plant told me if i can't take it, I am allowed to through up. I told he/she I am ready, so Bring it on. Right away, a light burst out of my chest, and I saw a portal opening, and the alien entered my being. It took control. I started seeing a lot of visuals. Beauty, destruction, death, life, horror, pain, fear, love. Everything was visual and sensual. I was in bliss and pain at the same time. I asked her what is my purpose in life? He/she said why don't you become a Shaman? And i said no way. Im not strong enough. And she said fine, then i'll give you an easier purpose. Just draw me. Just paint me. Show people my beauty, and that will alone will bring light. And he/she showed me all her incredible beauty ( which i m already starting to forget) . She also told me that she is not only light, but the opposite as well. And all this dark forces appeared. So powerful and masculine. I was terrified. But she said accept. So i did. There is beauty in horror. He/She has no preference, and so I should learn not to have a preference either. And then I here the Shaman calling my name. I walked in front of him, and my friend was called by the female Shaman. Then they Sang a song specific to each of us at the same time. I was blown away. Sharing this experience with my friend is priceless. To be continued ...

@Zweistein no nothing will change. But we have added each others profiles in this app , and so we can approach each other with better understanding. For example , my boss has a lot of blue and purple in him , and my personality profile is conflicting with his. So we now have a better tool to try and minimize conflict. Not sure how that is going to pan out!

@Ether of course it is an ego game. It's all ego games! I'm well aware that, as you are. I'm playing until it's no longer necessary. The other option is to drop all games. And I can't do that, not in this lifetime, not in this karmic body. So let's play

@Gladius ayahuasca is no nonsense drug. You respect her , or she will show you who is the boss. I'm actually meeting Madra this weekend myself (so fuking excited and nervous! It's like meeting my crush on a date :p) I recommend doing the diet properly two weeks before. Also limit you internet intake of news , YouTube, bullshit... just reduce noise from life as much as possible. I do Hope the retreat you are attending is legit. Best of luck!! And share your visit later

@Zweistein it was quite interesting. He obviously knew a lot about spiral dynamics, but he tried to stir me away from it. For good reasons ( they don't want to say one colour is better than other). He said their Drives are based on Spiral Dynamics , but it's not the same. It's a circular shape rather than spiral. Meaning that no drive is better than another. It's just dependent on circumstances that one drive does better than others in different societies. For instance, UK is mainly green and blue. Us is Orange and blue. China is purple and yellow. Etc. He said although you can go through personality development in your lifetime (spiral dynamics), your drive won't change that much. So my main drive yellow ( dreamer , future oriented) and second green ( caring) third red ( decisive) .for example It means my main drive is not money or success, rather it's freedom and fun , then people, then action and speed. And every company and every team needs all drives for different reasons. For example , our company has a lot of greens ( people care about each others needs and feelings, very British) , and very few reds ( aggressive decision makers ) and while that seems awesome at first, it can become a problem. Because at crunch times, we are at lost cause we don't have a lot of aggressive decision makers. Yellows are too much of a day dreamers sometimes, but they are also super future oriented and creative. Blues are past oriented and discipline. The combo will have hard time getting along, but they also compliment each other. Also a yellow can learn discipline even if she doesn't like it or it's not natural to her. Same with blue. All of this reminded me of something Alan Watts used to say. Too many saints or enlighten people , or too many scientists is not a good thing. It becomes like a cancer. You want a mix. And you need to accept everyone, and bring the best out of them. This doesn't mean you can't develop through different stages of personality and become turquoise or what not. That's a whole other thing I guess. Thanks for checking!

@herghly Last time was alright. I had a hard time keeping the tea in my stomach. My friend who was with me was vegan , and he got a lot more out of it. This time I am physically and mentally more prepared. I let u know in two weeks time!