Emerald

First off, I didn’t say anything negative about men in the whole post. I really am just saying what’s evident to me about an emotional pattern that men are experiencing and how men and women are reacting to each other as a result. But I am differentiating between things like surrender/receptivity and submission. Submission in the way that I’m defining it here means to forcefully self-diminish to fit into a rigid role…. Whereas surrender and receptivity are a more expansive state of letting go. The former is additive where the latter is subtractive. But insecurity in a man can lead to lots of unsafety for women. The weakling and the tyrant are two sides to one coin. Plus, once a woman is secure in herself, insecurity in men becomes unattractive. So, it’s not usually a conscious decision at that point. So, it isn’t really defensive because it’s so automatic. The insecure guy just doesn’t ping on the secure woman’s radar.

The alternative is to recognize the humanity in the other person, and how the desire for love and the feelings of shame (combined with ignorance to the humanity of the opposite sex) create misunderstanding and feelings of unnecessary hatred and bitterness. And once you see this, you can line up with people who are also on that wavelength and simply won’t be attracted to those who are still in the power struggle. And the reason the power struggle looks misogynistic is because it’s a dynamic of collective scapegoating. This is where an individual feels ashamed of themselves and projects that shame and judgment onto another group to feel better about themselves by contrast. It’s the self-aggravating and simultaneously self-soothing of judging the other as lesser and we become the greater by contrast. And usually men will say things that relate to looks/age, competence level, social role, stereotype, etc. to criticize women or make them feel diminished in importance in some way.

I didn’t realize that

Women who don’t feel powerless to men have to realize some things… here are a few… 1. Men are NOT unfeeling creatures that are incapable of loving. Consciously or unconsciously, men crave love very intensely just as women do. 2. Love and lust are two different things. And while most men fantasize about tons of hot women, they don’t fall in love that way. And most men who get tons of sex with hot women end up finding it empty after a while. When it comes to love, it’s all about how you make him feel. 3. Men are not actually that picky when it comes to looks… and if they are really picky about looks they’re probably that way to stay on the surface level and avoid the vulnerability that comes with love 4. Some men will say they want submissive women that are self-diminishing because they don’t feel confident in themselves. And they don’t feel good enough to be with a confident woman with high self esteem. And the reality is that men universally respond with love the most to confident women who challenge them in positive ways. But if a woman has low self esteem and listens to what the guy says, she may try to self diminish. This actually makes her less compelling because she isn’t challenging. And this enables the insecure man to feel comfortable with her because he feels superior by contrast. He won’t fall in love with her and she won’t have any power over him because of that. It’s just an easy-going relationship that he’s not invested in. So, you have to learn this as a woman to recognize your power and that the best men will want you at your best. 5. Misogyny is actually a reflection of fear and insecurity toward women. Secure men are at peace with women. 6. You cannot lose lovability. It doesn’t expire. 7. Most of the time, men are more scared of you than you are of them.

Some women do feel powerless to men. And these women will often play power games because that’s how people cope with feelings of powerlessness. But if you observe without bias, you’ll notice that men are grappling with this issue significantly more than women are. And it’s not because of anything women directly did usually… it usually comes way before anything like that happens. You have entire communities of men (Red Pill, Incel, MRAs, MGTOW, etc.) that exist mostly so that men can either wallow in their feelings of shame and powerlessness relative to women in the case of Incels and Black Pill… or fight and vent against their shame and powerlessness in the case of Red Pill, MRAs, MGTOW, and some facets of the PUA community. And in each of these communities, there is both an obsession and hatred towards women PRECISELY because these men feel totally powerless to women. And women do this on a smaller scale in reaction to all of this. You’ll find little mini-communities of bitter women grousing about men. But it’s nowhere near on the same scale and it’s usually reactionary in nature. There is no equivalent “womanosphere” to the manosphere because women don’t feel as powerless to men as men feel to women. And we collectively aren’t as compelled to create these self-soothing echo chambers. But it isn’t just guys in the manosphere that have this problem. Those are the moser extreme cases where the shame and powerlessness is the most intense. Most men, in varying degrees feel shame and powerlessness in relation to women. And misogyny (from mild to severe) is a common coping mechanism that’s employed to avoid those vulnerable feelings.

That’s not actually true. Leo does seem to genuinely value love and relationships. And while not against pick up and one night stands, his goal seems to be to help young nerdy guys break out of their shell and meet women… and grow in that way.

Thank you My point is that men try to make women feel powerless because they feel powerless to women. And they feel powerless to women LONG before any woman plays power games with them. Some of these men never even speak to any women and yet still feel victimized by them and powerless to them. The origin point for this powerlessness isn’t women at all, actually. It just feels like it is. It’s feelings of shame put upon them by a culture that has so many arbitrary expectations of men. And women get cast in this arbitrary expectation story as the determiner of male worth. And so many men (in varying degrees) are shadow boxing women and competing in a one-sided fight that they are convinced they are the victims of. And to protect themselves from shame (and the powerlessness they feel in response to women) they try to minimize women’s power and importance in relationships and in general… and posture as the strong superior masculine man who is the dominant leader of his inferior woman. He positions himself as the one who loves less… and perhaps even avoids love in his relationships, so that he can maintain an imbalance and avoid feeling powerless. And the women who believe these men’s stories start to internalize these feelings of shame and powerlessness. And they start trying to outgun him in the game he’s playing to avoid their own wounds. But it’s all just one big coping mechanism toward a deep shame that originates in men and is projected into women.

I understand your response to Leo here. He does have some blind spots to address relative to the topic of women and relationships. And these blindspots do keep him locked into a partially Blue/Orange perspective about male/female relationships… which are somewhat misogynistic by design. But the thing to recognize here is that you’ve had a strong reaction to him because you believe what he’s saying to some extent. And you believe him because you are afraid that you will never be truly loved… just lusted after and discarded for ever younger and more attractive women. And when men make you feel that way, they’re unconsciously trying to make you feel as they feel. They fear that women will never love them and will always discard them for more masculine men. So, they try to make women feel like they’ll always be discarded and never loved by emphasizing age and looks… which women have little control over. You see men do this all over the internet… specifically to get women’s goats and to consciously or unconsciously try make us feel inferior. They feel powerless and ashamed and unworthy of our love. And so they try to make us feel powerless and ashamed and unworthy of their love. And men who are afflicted by misogyny (which is most men in varying degrees) will try to rationalize away and minimize women’s power to cope with feeling powerless to gain our approval and love. And this can come off in a very catty and spiteful kind of way. Leo is no different. He is a man who once felt totally powerless to attract a woman. But then he learned how, and wants to close the book and feel like he’s conquered the beast. But he hasn’t really. And for him to change his perspective to a more developed one, he’d have to really face into the powerlessness that underlies his harshness on this topic. But that’s for him to work on. You wouldn’t feel so bad if you didn’t have deep levels of internalized misogyny to work on. Part of you believes in the idea that men are superior and that women are inferior… and that no woman will ever be deemed worthy of love from a man. And that all women except super models are only ever settled for. And Leo talking about hot women in an objectifying way and framing dating in the way he does (upping men and downing women) triggers the part of you that feels unlovable.

This just isn’t true. Society has given you so much. You just take it for granted. But if you really paid attention, the value that society provides to you is massive. Think about the food you ate today that you didn’t have to hunt or scavenge for. That’s because farmers, truckers, cooks, and grocery store employees all worked together in an organized way… and now your stomach is full. without work and a society to organize that work, you’d have to do it all yourself. And if it were taken from you, you would probably quickly realize just how much you benefit from society. Now, there’s plenty of problems to be fixed, of course. But to say that society does nothing for you is false. Now, to answer your original question of why I work. One reason I work is to support myself and my family. But I love work because I have to capacity to impact people and society in a positive way. And this potential for positive impact is genuinely exciting and inspiring to me.

Hey, good to see you ?

In my psychedelic experiences of Divine Masculine, there was the experience of God Mind and God Heart. And it was this mixture of deep vulnerability and attachment mixed with infinite strength and detachment. And it allowed the Divine Masculine to extend itself through every facet of reality and to come to know and love all things infinitely… and to care deeply for all things and grieve all losses. And if I’m to pick the number one quality that makes a great man is that he is able to embody this in human form. It is the Lover Archetype that extends the most vulnerable parts of itself to give love out into the world. And being willing to experience pain and discomfort if it comes, in the pursuit of this love giving. And practically this looks like a generous and prolific giving to his family, community, and humanity at large.

Since this is a very male-dominated forum, I figured I would put a few bits of advice on here for a woman looking to find her match. 1. Work on yourself psychologically - (Number One Advice!!!) You will only ever find a man who mirrors your Shadow until you integrate it, so integrate your Shadow so that you won't attract or be attracted to it in real life. Work on getting rid of any self-esteem issues and codependent tendencies especially, as these tend to attract abusive men. 2. Know and respect your own boundaries - This means knowing what you do and don't want and knowing what your dealbreakers are. You don't have any ability to change anyone. But you can be firm about what you want and sort anyone who doesn't fit. 3. Make your relationship decisions with an 80/20 heart to mind ratio - Most relationship decisions should be made by following your emotions, instincts, and intuition as this will always bring you to who mirrors you (either mirroring your shadow or your personality). But you should also keep the mind around to keep sight on your boundaries and dealbreakers. But avoid letting the mind create huge lists of traits that you require a partner to possess. The mind will sort everyone if you let it lead over the heart. 4. Adopt the "I am the prize" mindset in dating - Never chase anyone or compete for anyone's attention, no matter how much you care about him. The man should be the one reaching out 75% of the time as he is the one winning you over, not the other way around. The egg does not chase the sperm. 5. Be friendly and social with a network of people who are cut from the same cloth as you - Have a strong social network with many acquaintances, friends, and very close friends. This is the best way to meet a partner. Honestly... this bit of advice should be number one for both men and women! It's the best way to meet someone. 6. Never date a guy who is outside your social network - This one might seem extreme to many people because of us living in a very atomized society. But it's super important! The advice here is, if you haven't known and interacted with a guy platonically for at least a month or two, then don't go out with that guy... not even on a 30 minute coffee date. If your relationship to a man starts out on a romantic/sexual foot, it doesn't give enough platonic time to develop a proper attraction or bond. It's also a red flag because he probably starts off on that foot with many women. Also, full stop, don't do dating apps. Dating apps blunt the intuition... which is your best tool in dating. 7. Nothing lukewarm - Only form relationships with men who you feel very strongly about. Let your intuition show you who you like. 8. Develop your own unique style - When you have your own style, of course, do it for yourself. But a perk of having a unique style is that you'll tend to attract men of similar tastes. Also, it tends to repel the men who don't share your tastes. 9. Don't try too hard - Be yourself and meet people. And if a man strikes your fancy, then don't overthink it. Interact with him casually and playfully but don't come on too strong. 10. Look out for red flags - A lot of this has to do with numbers 1 and 2, so begin there first. But also watch out for red flags that indicate that a given man is unkind or has weak character. For example, things like not having a job, being rude to waitstaff, making jokes at other's expense. 11. Know your green flags - Know which positive qualities you require in a partner. (For example - kindness, respect, hard-working, discipline, etc.) 12. Be in your Yin energy - Similar to number 4. Be in your Yin energy, which means focusing towards being, receptivity, warmth, creativity, intuition, etc. This will not only attract men in general... it will also attract compatible men who appreciate your unique Yin energy. Edit: One last piece of advice... You must understand that love is blind and that there is a chance you will fall in love with any man you spend a considerable amount of time with. And once that deeper bond happens, it will be difficult to sever the attraction. So, be sure that you only spend a lot of time around men of strong character. If you're hanging out with violent criminals, you'll likely fall for a violent criminal. If you're hanging out with immature men, you'll likely fall for an immature man. If you're hanging out with good men, you'll likely fall for a good man.

Yes exactly

I know I’m right about it. My eyes don’t deceive me. The mundane reality is much gentler and nicer than the falsehood. People are people. And there’s literally no one out there who’s universally undesirable. And anyone who’s a 3 and above won’t even struggle to find someone, as long as they have reasonable expectations of finding a partner in their league… and enough self-esteem to put themselves out there.

Back in the day and now is probably about the same in terms of people finding partners. Back then, it was probably more common for men to die young because of war. That’s probably the biggest difference. But why is it your assumption that there’s 30% of men who are just not going to have women attracted to them? It’s an assumption that’s not based in reality at all. I’ve met plenty of lame guys in my life. And none of them were incapable of finding women who were interested in them. For example, there’s a guy I used to know that looked like a walrus and was really creepy and weird. He had nothing going for him at all in any department. And even he had a few girlfriends in the time I knew him. You seriously need to go live in a redneck town for a while. You’ll realize that no one is totally unfuckable. You just have to get in touch with the reality of how people pair bond. It isn’t this extreme thing you’re imagining where tons of people are just hopeless.

You’re making that assumption again that only a small percentage of the population will have people attracted to them. But as I’ve said before, most people are capable of being attracted to most people. And NO ONE needs to be with anyone that they’re not attracted to. Attraction is just the pre-requisite for romance to occur. And people tend to be attracted to their match… especially women. In a person who is emotionally mature enough to sustain a long term relationship, looks and status are just the initial bar that has to be crossed. And for most people, that bar is analogous to where they are personally. If you look at statistics (or if you just go to a flea market or grocery store), you’ll see that most people have a partner who matches them. So this people only being attracted to millionaires and supermodels thing is not actually a real issue. Dispossess yourself of that illusion.

Yeah… I’m glad to have never had to use one. It feels blah and like it would suck really bad. There’s really nothing quite like in-person, contextual connection.

Yeah, that is big problem.

I can see how someone can end up in that perspective. And I can have some degree of sympathy. That said, as a woman, it is very frustrating and sometimes traumatic to be on the receiving end of all of it. There’s just literally millions of guys who are all subscribing to these false ideas about womanhood and ending up bitter and misogynistic as a result. So I’m not very gentle about confronting these guys with their illusions. They need to snap the fuck out of it before they end up creating some dystopian handmaiden’s tale of a situation to solve the problems with women that only exist in their own heads.

Listen, I am quite familiar with what men face in dating because it isn’t a secret. It’s VERY well complained about… especially on here. And the number one thing that will help is for a man to dispossess himself of these distorted ideas about women. It will make the process of meeting women so much less scary once he actually sees the reality and not this alien projection.

Yes, exactly. Most men’s issues come from the distorted way they view women. It makes us seem like a bunch of scary aliens to them. So of course they act like spazzes around women.

You will need to learn how to socialize normally if that’s something that you struggle with. But men don’t need to be Rico Suave with their words to get women. Normal will do just fine.

Because that’s online dating and isn’t reflective of real-world dynamics. Women are very intuitive and online dating is basically just visual. So, women aren’t getting the full depth and breadth of experience that they need to know if a guy is attractive to them or not.

I probably wouldn’t want to be a guy’s wingman. But I will give them a dose of reality and let them know that their whole framework around women is nonsense and that most women are looking for a very human connection with a normal man. And that they will be exactly what some women are looking for, no matter who they are.

Insert regurgitated red pill talking point the family court system…. Very original. But to your other point, women don’t care that much about sexual abundance. It’s not really a priority because most women don’t want random sex that much. It’s just not very fulfilling. And this post falls into the trap of men projecting their own sexual agenda onto female sexuality. This is honestly why men rarely ever understand anything about female sexuality. Their agenda is too different, so all they can do is project what they’re familiar with.