Emerald

Men technically didn't vote her out. Donald Trump sustained about the same numbers from 2020 (74,223,975 in 2020 vs 74,831,719 in 2024), while Kamala just failed to excite her base and under-performed Biden's 2020 numbers. That said, it was mostly left leaning suburban white men who stayed home... probably because they didn't feel like Trump was that much of a threat to them AND because Kamala is just your run of the mill establishment Democrat. Also, they might have felt more identification with Biden because he's a white guy, while Kamala is a black woman. So, they might not have been as energized to elect someone of a different race and gender to them. Plus, all across the world EVERY SINGLE incumbent party declined because of inflation. I see this as the biggest reason that depressed the Democratic vote. Also, Kamala didn't engage in identity politics at all. Hilary leaned into identity politics in 2016 without giving a strong populist message, which made her campaign particularly weak because her slogan was "I'm with her". And she didn't have much focus on bread and butter issues. And she thought it was enough to get to the White House to skate in on the idea of being the first female president. But Kamala didn't do ANY identity politics at all because she was intelligent and avoiding a Hilary situation. Whenever Trump tried to bait her into talking about race, she'd just dismiss it and say "Same old show." And she didn't talk anything about gender either. She deliberately avoided identity politics altogether. Her message was one of general unity and the idea of "not going back" while also talking about her policies for gradual improvement like a child tax credit, adding home care to medicare, $25,000 for first time home buyers, etc. But it didn't really matter. Because she's a black woman, most people just assumed she was running on identity politics because people will project what they think is there. It was really Donald Trump who was doing all the identity politics... while male identity politics. And that sustained Donald Trump's numbers from 2020. And it made him a darling of the male identity podcast circuit. But I disagree that no one has been catering to that demographic. Trump and Republicans have been leaning into white male identity politics heavily and overtly since 2016... and subtly before that. And the MOST popular podcasts and YouTube channels are all about putting the male identity up on a pedestal. It's literally everywhere to where I even get served a bunch of male identity politics stuff despite my political viewing habits being decisively on the left. And Trump's campaign was hyper-focused on race, ethnicity, gender, and calling anyone who wasn't a white male a DEI hire. So, the lesson is that identity politics IS a winner... as long as you cater your identity politics to white men. And this has, of course, always been the case. It is nothing new. White male identity politics has always been super popular. That's why most people get upset when anyone else tries to do identity politics because male identity politics is the default and everything else an aberration.

Political movements are almost always formed (at least partially) in response towards collective psychological patterns or as a means to compensate for and balance out collective psychological patterns. So, you cannot separate politics from human psychology as there is a reason why people gravitate towards the movements they gravitate towards. And with what the poster that I was responding to said, they were describing that they noticed themselves having a magnetic pull towards Fascism. And a pull towards a pattern like Fascism is usually as a result of some internal drama playing itself out externally. For example, someone might project their authoritarian parental figure onto a Fascist leader... or authoritarian leader more generally. And this can activate a child aspect of them that still sees the parent as perfect. And this gets projected onto a given politician. Or, they can play out traumas around unfairness and scarcity from childhood... and scapegoat and project that onto people of different groups who they perceive as getting unfair treatment or taking up all the resources. And these are just a couple examples that are more straight forward. Here's one that's a bit less straightforward. A person has authoritarian parents. And they come to rebel from those parents... and develop a contrarian way of thinking. And if a political figure comes on the scene that comes across as anti-establishment, the person may feel "an enemy of my enemy is my friend." And then, the contrarian can begin conforming to this anti-establishment dictator figure. And then, the contrarians repressed conformity starts to bear its head in unconscious ways.

It's good that you're aware of that tendency within yourself. The ability to recognize your Fascist Shadow can help you avoid the collective pull towards Fascism. It is those that identify with goodness that think "I could never be a Fascist" that are the most susceptible to being weaponized by a demagogue. But don't let what I just said make you complacent. Now is the time to explore and discover the vulnerabilities and patterns that that Fascist impulse arises from. Ask yourself "Where does that pull on my psyche come from?" "In what ways does the pull towards Fascism feel like it will serve or protect me? "What is it about macho stuff that feels appealing to me?" "Why does Fascism feel alluring?

Even if that is the case, my point still stands. There's plenty of evidence that Trump is just as much of a war monger as the next president... if not more of one.

We weren't even really talking about the "right way" to be Masculine in the first place. I was just saying that right wing guys don't come across as any more Masculine than the next guy. They just pedestalize Masculinity more than the next guy, and they believe that that makes them come across as more Masculine. But with regard to the dehumanization of the other, these are Shadow-Masculine qualities and are unnecessarily petty and harmful... and maladaptive given the post-industrial environment. And perhaps at war, there is a necessity to callous one's self to the other side in order to win. But the majority of wars that are happening now aren't actually benefitting anyone. It's just how governments are wielding their power to steal resources from other places. But in the 21st century first-world, where war is rarely about defense of your loved ones, these are maladaptive tendencies that come from peasant-brained willful ignorance that reflect a lack of social and emotional development. And they only divide the working class populace and make us all more susceptible to being dominated and controlled by the wealthy and powerful. It's the working class white guy who will let himself be oppressed and sell all of his power to a dictator if it means he's allowed to be on top of the hierarchy of oppressed peasants. And this guy will make himself lower just so he can bring others even lower than him. And I never met a person who was an out and out racist or xenophobe that possessed positive Masculine qualities. It was always the most ignorant people who were lacking the most with work ethic and standards of ethical values. Because of this recognition that I had as a teenager that racists are just a bit ignorant... I even had come to the conclusion of, "Who cares about racist people. I don't like it. But they're just ignorant but harmless. They might run their mouth off about this, that, or the other group, but they're not actually going to do anything." And individually, that was true. Most of the racists that I knew from my hometown were not evil... just gullible. But I made the mistake as a teenager and early-20-something of under-estimating the power of large groups of stupid people. Now, of course, many people who weren't out and out racists/xenophobes who conceptually valued tolerance and kindness still had their blind spots and unconscious biases. And many of them, I'm sure, will be weaponized if we become a truly Fascist state... mostly because they aren't consciously aware of what path they're going down. And they don't recognize their unconscious Fascist impulses. And it's easy to trick people who aren't aware of the unconscious biases. But anyone who was out-and-out bigoted was always the least developed, well adjusted, and well adapted people. So, it's important to not put Shadow-Masculine behaviors up on a pedestal and find a positive reason for it to exist. This is what happens when Masculine values go out of alignment.

People are unaware and take what he says at face value. They don't realize they're being lied to.

That's a very specific conjecture that I can't really see the logic behind. Why do you pair a guy like Leo with an aggressive curvy basketball playing woman? What is your rationale?

If being mean works on a woman to pull her closer to you, she probably has parents that treated her very mean since childhood. And so, now she has been conditioned to associate mean-ness with the drive to seek connection and love. But a healthy woman who lacks that trauma or has healed from that trauma will disappear super fast if you treat her mean. The same is true for men, of course. Everyone is subject the allure of a repeat of abusive familial patterns. It's not really a gender thing.

Fascism didn't break through in 2020... likely for a variety of different factors. But it's been very close to breaking through for nearly a decade, all over the world. But I think the issue is mostly an economic one as that is what tends to lead to Fascism.... and authoritarianism of any stripe really. But because there is no left wing options that are widely known, the authoritarianism that was chosen was a Fascist authoritarianism. And so many people associate Republicans with a better economy, even though job growth is historically significantly better under Democrats by a large margin. The issue really is that Democrats don't have effective messaging, while Republics (especially Trump) do. Democrats might have better policies that will lead to slight but genuine improvements in people finances. But they lack a compelling narrative. So, the average person is unaware of their policies despite (in recent polls) Kamala's policies being ranked as far more popular than Trump's policies by 80% of American people when people were polled but not told whose policies were whose. So, it isn't policies but the narrative. And Trump's narrative is, "Everything is economically terrible. But I'm going to fix it and Make America Great Again. It's all the leftists, immigrants, and trans people's fault because they are poisoning the blood of our nation. I'll make them pay for the problems they have caused you, and you will get your revenge. And I will get rid of them and fix it." While Kamala's narrative is, "We're not going back!" And this is a promise to protect social freedoms, which is a winning message for those who are already aware enough of history and collective human patterns to understand that Trump's narrative is Fascist and historically leads to worse conditions for 99% of people. But for the majority of Americans, they don't get that. They don't realize that they will be on the chopping block... not just the people they feel 'deserve' the crackdown. But they do understand, "You're being treated unfairly, and immigrants are getting all the benefits that you would have otherwise gotten. If I'm elected, I'll make them pay."

Sure, that's true. I've noticed that just being who we are and sharing our perspectives tends to trigger insecurities in them. And this seems to cause them to go into spiteful, petty, catty competition mode with us. And it all is very reminiscent of adolescent mean girls stuff. And perhaps other men don't get to see that side of them. That said, it's genuinely difficult to imagine that these guys come across as particularly Masculine, even in the eyes of men because they are so sensitive about basic things and have tons of petty grievances that they lack the resolve and stoicism to weather the storm of.

I was raised in a very rural, blue collar, white working class environment in Central Florida where 80% of people are conservative. And in my teen years, I lived in trailer parks and trailer neighborhoods where the values were very centered around toughness and grit. I know there are many great "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" values that I've learned from growing up in a place like this. And going to college with a bunch of sheltered wealthy progressives was a bit of culture shock because I was so used to the rough and rugged, worldly but unworldly redneck values. And the college kids were in some ways more conscious and worldly than me and in some ways less conscious and worldly than me. And when I tried to bond with them through talking about conspiracy theories like I did in my hometown with so many people, they just looked at me like I was crazy because they were better educated than me. So, it was difficult to fit in because I was so used to the redneck mores and ethos. And the Wilkins's (my dad's side of the family) are out of rural Georgia. And spending a lot of my time there during Summers. And there's a lot of great working class values that I've picked up from them. The Wilkins's genuinely are a great example of these values. And I still value that idea of self-sufficiency, toughness, and grit. I really wouldn't be anywhere without it, and my heroes as a teenager were always men of a high work ethic which was a huge influence on my personality. But the dehumanizing tendencies you associate with these people and these values are just very maladaptive in the current era. And anyone who was worthy of being looked up in my family and hometown, did NOT have these bigoted tendencies. Sure, the bigoted people would talk about good game about work ethic and standards of moral behavior and talk how black people and Mexicans were lazy animals. But these were the people who were the most likely to behave like lazy animals with low standards of moral behavior. And they were the least likely people to live up to these values because they'd much rather whine and blame minorities for all their problems. For example, I was hanging out with my then-boyfriend and his coworker Tim (who was about 40 at the time). And Tim was alright. My bf and Tim worked at Golden Corral together. Then, Tim had invited us over to his house to hang out for a bit one evening. And he brought a plate of Golden Corral food home for his brother, who I hadn't met before. And when I met his brother that evening, he was one of the most neurotically racist people that I've encountered in my entire life. He reminded me of the character Seth from American History X because he was a really big guy who was SUPER obsessed with hating black people. Like, this guy ONLY ever wanted to talk about black people. And Tim gave him the plate of Golden Corral food which was fried chicken and mashed potatoes. And the guy is ranting about black people and calling them monkeys, while he talking with his mouth full of food and is using his bare hands to shovel mashed potatoes into him mouth and getting them all over his face and shirt. And he's literally eating like an animal as he's comparing black people to animals. It was the most ironic and clear instances of projection that I'd ever seen... a man who eats like a monkey calling black people monkeys. So, don't try to school me on working class values. That's the environment I was raised in. And I know all the highlights and shadows. And I will tell you that the most admirable people who held those values did not spend all their time bitching and whining about things and blaming minorities for their problems. The just did the work and would give anyone the shirts off their back if they needed it. It was only the local yokels with low intelligence and low standards of moral behavior that engaged in scapegoating the other.

You didn't even read my last post did you? I'm saying that Trump didn't win because of lefties shaming people. That's not what wins and loses elections. And when I say that Fascism is rising all over the world, it's not me pointing the finger at the Fascist other. And I'm not shaming anyone as that's not productive. I'm being almost clinical in my labelling of Fascism because I see that any and all human beings (without exception) can fall into and be weaponized into Fascism and authoritarian thinking more generally. What I'm saying is that Fascism is part of who we are as a nation and as a species when certain conditions are in place. We're incredibly vulnerable to falling into Fascistic patterns, just like ants can end up in a death spiral in certain conditions. And until we recognize this about ourselves as individuals and as a collective, Fascism will always re-arise and we'll repeat the same patterns again and again. And a big part of this is that most people don't want to face with their own Fascist impulses. We want to think "Only the bad people become Fascists. But I'm a good person, so of course I'm not a Fascist." So, we deny it to ourselves and hyper-identify with goodness because we would feel ashamed of ourselves if we saw our own Fascism. And then, when a demagogue comes and lights a spark to the repressed dormant kerosene of Fascism in us all... people just find themselves magnetized to him because he's giving permission for those repressed Fascistic impulses to come up. Trump is very aware of this. So, he knows that Fascist rhetoric is a winning message. That's why he brought out all the Fascist rhetoric so close to Election Day. That's why he had that rally with all the anti-immigrant sentiments so close to election day. Trump knows that Fascism is a winner. And people who are on the left are generally clueless about this deep seated Fascist impulse in humanity. And so, they keep trying to say "Don't vote for Trump. He's a Fascist." But it's important to recognize that deep down, everyone already knows that. And that's an advertisement for Trump for so many people... not a warning. It's a hard pill to swallow about so many in humanity. But the sooner we realize that and the vulnerabilities that Fascism comes from, the sooner we can truly grow past our Fascistic patterns to ones that are more reflective of species-unity.

Let's not let the Commanders in Chief off the hook for their military actions. That means Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden, etc. Trump is 100% responsible for the military actions taken under his administration... because it was HIS administration and he appointed those neocons. And he had plenty of his own ideas in the mix. And there were plenty of instances that Trump wanted to be even more militaristic that his generals had to talk him out of. And when neocons are talking you out of militaristic actions, you know you messed up. For example, he wanted to go to war with North Korea (nuclear war). And one of his generals had to talk him out of it by appealing to his ego and giving him the idea like (paraphrased) 'wouldn't it be so cool and special of you to have diplomatic relations with North Korea.' And Trump liked that idea. So, he went with it. It's why he was all buddy-buddy with Kim Jung Un. But if not, we could have had nuclear war with North Korea.

"no wars where started while Trump was in office" I was rebutting your quote that I copy-pasted above. I was just informing you and others that are under the misconception that Trump is a dove that he's very much NOT. Lots of people think he's a dove (because that's what he claims), but he did 432% the amount of drone strikes in his first 2 years than Obama did in 8. So he is just as militaristic as other presidents, if not more. Of course, lots of presidents take military actions. But Trump is claiming that he's not and that his administration was and would be more peace loving, and most people are buying it because people are unaware. So, I'm just shining the flashlight in case you or others are under the false perception that Trump was less of a war monger than other presidents.

Maybe Masculinity is something that men are intellectually defining differently than women tend to intuitively/emotionally pick up on. And women perhaps don't sense a greater Masculinity in right wing men compared to any other guy... while men tend to have a clearer distinction because of the ways men are collectively conditioned to conceptualize of Masculinity. Maybe men index more on stereotypically Masculine acts that they can check off of a list, as opposed to indexing on Masculinity as an energetic vibe like women intuitively sense... especially in dating dynamics. And the right wing worldview itself is more polarized to the Masculine principle to the exclusion the Feminine principle. That just doesn't (to my perception) increase or amplify a man's Masculine energy or mannerisms... neither in toxic nor healthy ways. If anything, a lot of right wing guys tend to come across as catty and petty... like mean girls. Ben Shapiro and Matt Walsh particularly have somewhat of a catty vibe that comes through in their speech and mannerisms. But I find this cattiness a lot online from right wing commentators... especially with Red Pill and Incel guys. Interacting with them online with them throwing their arrows at women feels quite a bit like it felt to be bullied by the petty bitchy girls in middle school. It's like, when guys don't integrate their Feminine side, it comes through in negative ways. Like @Etherial Cat said. They come across like a bunch of spicy cats. And I just can't sense the Masculine vibes. But really, look around on this forum and you'll find tons of right wing guys. Do you really feel like they're more Masculine (toxic or otherwise) than the next guy?

This is a very reductive take. People on the right are always shaming people on the left. But that's not the reason why Biden won in 2020. And even if people on the left are shaming people on the right, that's not why Trump won. Fascism is just rising everywhere in developed nations... not just the United States. And there are deeper macrocosmic dynamics that have so much more to do with economics and new technology giving so many people access to far right propaganda that promises to solve their economic issues by kicking out immigrants and sticking it to ____ group.

The last formal declaration of war that the United States made was when we joined World War II. So, no modern president has technically started any wars... though plenty of presidents (including Trump) have been involved in military attacks. For example, during his time in office Trump was responsible for... Doing 432% more drone strikes than Obama's 8 years as president in just the first 2 years of his term alone (then he slapped down the mandatory reporting requirement to hid the records of his military actions, so he very likely did even more in the latter 2 years of his term.) He kept us in Iraq and Afganistan Had a 330% increase in CIVILIAN deaths in Afghanistan under Trump's presidency He bombed Syria twice He bombed Somalia He wanted to occupy a 1/3 of Syria to "take the oil" He let Israel illegally annex the Gollon Heights He illegally assassinated the top Iranian Commander Sulemani (who was fighting against ISIS). This led to retaliatory strikes on American soldiers that led to many of them getting traumatic brain injuries. He tried to coup Venezuela He armed Saudi Arabia as they did a genocide in Yemen... and vetoed cutting off our weapons to Saudi Arabia. (Trump has business ties to Saudi) Trump has said that he wants a war with Mexico in his second term He wants to do airstrikes against drug cartels He has received millions of dollars in political donations from Miriam Adelson who he has promised to annex the entire West Bank for in exchange for that money He dropped the MOAB on Afganistan He let Neo-Cons (like John Bolton) run his foreign policy His first military raid as president killed a small American girl He signed a pro-torture executive order

I totally agree with this. There are many men who have internalized the message that they aren't Masculine enough. And so, they look for guys who they think 'fit the bill' of Masculinity. And the guys who uptalk the value of "becoming more Masculine" tend to attract a lot of these guys who feel like they need to look to external role models to "increase" their Masculinity.

Personally, I don't even think they're more stereotypically Masculine than the average leftist guy. I think that's just a stereotype that's widely believed. Think of Sam Seder, David Pakman, Cenk Ugyer, David Doel, Destiny, Hasan Piker, Vaush, etc. All of these guys are either equally Masculine or more Masculine compared to Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, Nick Fuentes, Dennis Prager, Dave Rubin, Andrew Tate, etc. I don't sense any difference in the average level of Masculinity between these two groups of guys. They're all kind of medium level of Masculinity... except Cenk Ugyer, Hasan Piker, and Stephen Crowder who are a bit more Masculine than average. And if they weren't directly vocalizing their ideologies and talking about politics and everyone went in blind and you had these two groups of guys to observe and you could observe the way they speak and act, I don't think most people would rank the right wing group as more Masculine than the left wing group. The Masculinity of right wing guys is kind of like the emperor's new clothes in that way. Unless you've specifically been taught to associate Masculinity with right wing ideologies, you wouldn't read them as more Masculine than the next guy.

It's probably an expedient business decision for him, because he's a very Masculine guy who probably has a mostly male audience. Plus, for a Spiral Dynamics perspective... Most men who tend to strongly value Masculinity who have some Stage Yellow qualities tend to resist Stage Green. So, in significant ways these guys end up stuck partially or mostly in Stage Orange because they are still valuing Orange values, even if they do have some Yellow perspectives. And Trump is the definition of Stage Orange.

I think it has to do with lacking an understanding of the archetypal distinction between the Masculine and Feminine... and seeing the Feminine as antithetical to the Masculine as opposed to a necessary component of what makes an attractive and well adjusted man. The esoteric Masculine without the esoteric Feminine makes someone a "brain-in-a-jar". (aka a robotic hyper-nerd) The esoteric Feminine without the esoteric Masculine makes someone a "blob-on-the-ground." (aka a lazy couch-potato) And of course, neither of these polarizations into the Masculine and Feminine make a person attractive. So, there is a misconception that a man need to be only Masculine, and that the more Masculine a guy is that the more attractive he will be. But the Feminine is what enables us to have emotional intelligence, social acuity, connection to the body and instincts, etc. as all things of the body, emotions, and social connection are in the Feminine principle. And this is what makes a man come across as Masculine and attractive in the eyes of the world. But because there is a distinction between the cultural associations with Masculinity (which includes A LOT of archetypal Feminine qualities) AND the esoteric Masculine (which is pure raw Masculinity), so many men keep doubling down on pure Masculinity and becoming more and more socially maladjusted, nerdy, and weird because they have repressed their Feminine sides, which is what makes us more down to Earth and human. So, these guys who seek to be Masculine and to repress their Feminine sides become total "brain-in-a-jar" robotic hyper-nerds that come across as a bit disconnected, lofty, and alien. And of course, women don't like that. And these hyper-Masculine nerdy guys believe women don't like them because they're not Masculine enough, when the problem is that they're hyper-Masculine and not integrated with their Feminine side enough. And they keep doubling down on Masculine polarization and making themselves more and more nerdy and less and less socially and emotionally attuned. And then, what's the solution? Clearly they're not Masculine enough... so they keep trying to subtract the Feminine and add the Masculine. And that doesn't work. And then, what's the solution? Clearly they're not Masculine enough... so they keep trying to subtract the Feminine and add the Masculine. And that doesn't work. And then, what's the solution? Clearly they're not Masculine enough... so they keep trying to subtract the Feminine and add the Masculine. And that doesn't work. And then, what's the solution? Clearly they're not Masculine enough... so they keep trying to subtract the Feminine and add the Masculine. And that doesn't work. And then, what's the solution? Clearly they're not Masculine enough... so they keep trying to subtract the Feminine and add the Masculine. And that doesn't work. etc.

Of course. I didn't mean that guys wouldn't want to be Masculine and value those things. What I meant by "Are you sure?" is "Are you sure that these right wing guys are ACTUALLY Masculine?" They don't come across as any more Masculine than the average guy in Walmart.

Are you sure about that? On average, these right wing guys don't come across as any more Masculine than the next guy. The only one I can think of that's Masculine is Joe Rogan... and he's not even the most ideologically right wing guy. Most right wing male figures are just ideologically fetishizing their views on Masculinity. But that doesn't actually translate to them coming across as more Masculine. Like, I can't even think of a right wing guy other than Joe Rogan... or maybe Steven Crowder that come across as more Masculine than the average guy. It's just like a if there's a woman who ideologically fetishized Femininity... it wouldn't make her more Feminine. You can see a slight example of this with trad wives that have an ideological attachment to the idea of traditional Femininity. Unless they're influencers that play trad wives on TikTok, most of them are not paragons of Femininity just because they subscribe to that ideology. Some are truly the opposite and use their beliefs in trad Fem ideology to try to gain male validation, which doesn't actually translate to more Feminine allure in these men's eyes. Masculinity and Femininity are not things people can add to themselves just by believing an ideology that puts Masculinity or Femininity up on a pedestal. Think about Ben Shapiro, Nick Fuentes, Charlie Kirk, Matt Walsh, Andrew Tate, etc. Matt Walsh and Andrew Tate are in the 50th percentile of Masculine vibes where they're dead on average... while Ben Shapiro, Nick Fuentes, and Charlie Kirk are slightly less Masculine than the majority of men.

It really depends on if you're good at active listening, asking questions, and holding space for people's answers... and reflecting their answers back to them in your own words. The better questions you can ask, the better coach you will be. And the more you're aware of yourself, the more you'll be able to pick the best questions to ask.

The rules for social calibration depends on the context. And the "Overton window" of social calibration arises organically as an emergent property of the context. It isn't something decided consciously by any given person, though individuals can influence this Overton Window. It's just that (in every social context, from workplaces to countries to nightclubs, etc.) a culture intuitively arises based on a myriad of different factors that are so multifaceted that it would be very difficult to parse out.