Emerald

Yeah, the math isn't really adding up to me. Like, you could get 100 guys to insert themselves per day and that might be manageable. But if we're assuming a completion that takes 10 minutes per guy, that would be at least 1000 minutes of sex. And that's like 17 hours of sex. By hour four, everything would be on fire... especially if she's (hopefully) using condoms.

You thought I was really letting my freak flag fly, huh?

I'm not saying most adult women are good at doing their make-up. It's definitely a bell curve. But there's a very specific kind of awful way that pre-teen girls do their make-up... and even specific brands depending on the generation. And women often bond over stories of how terribly they used to do their make-up when they were 12 as most girls go through that phase. It's a little bit like how middle school boys in the early 2000s were obsessed with Axe body spray. And so, they always smelled like BO and Axe.

It's because men who are being themselves and doing their own thing come across as normal and interesting... and they come across as more Masculine and appealing when they're not trying to be Masculine and appealing. And that's because men generally don't understand what women are attracted to about them. So, when men TRY to act in a way that's attractive to women, they tend to be less successful than guys who aren't trying. What I mean is that men are often focused on more overt Masculine expressions and end up doing the male equivalent of "overdoing the makeup" with their Masculine performance. Like when I was 11 years old and I had just started wearing make-up, I just had the sense "The more make-up I wear, the prettier I will be." And I was wearing this bright blue eyeshadow up to my eyebrows, bright pink lips, glitter all over my face, and silver blush. Then, when I was 13, I started wearing foundation that was 3 shades darker than me and I'd cake it on. I didn't do a good job at applying make-up at all. This is a common phase that pre-teen girls go through where their make-up is awful. This is what guys who actively try to be appealing to women come across as to me... only in terms of personality instead of appearance. They over-emphasize certain elements of their Masculinity to a clownish degree and then they lose a lot of their natural subtle Masculine expressions that come out when they're just being themselves and not paying attention to women. But men in general (especially young men) don't see what's appealing about their natural Masculinity... and they "cake it on" and try to come across as Masculine. That's what over-focus towards women comes across as. When a man is over-focused on women, it makes them come across as nerdy and desperate if they're inexperienced or playerish and sleazy if they're experienced. Either way, it's not attractive to most women. So when a guy is just being himself and isn't super focused on women, it's actually a bit rare and refreshing. And many women will find that appealing if she senses there's chemistry or compatibility with a particular guy.

That is my assumption that this period of time will be negative enough that people will sour on the right wing. But I disagree with Leo on that criticism. It's just par for the course that a populace that's struggling will come to criticize the status quo and the establishment... and some will polarize left and want to progress into the future towards better times, and some will polarize right to try to resurrect the better times from the past. And you will have tons of criticism of the establishment in all leaner times. And there is no suppressing that reality. That's especially true because the average person doesn't understand the dangers of authoritarianism that can arise when Populism is a false mask worn to cement authoritarian control. If Leo were poorer and felt genuinely trapped by economic circumstances (like so many do), my guess is that he'd be far more of a left wing Populist that he is. It's only the people who are doing okay that can make peace with the current system. It's more of an abstract values-based thing for people who aren't dealing with economic anxiety. But for people who don't see a path forwards towards economic stability (which is the position most people are in), you can't just expect them to feel hunky dory about a system that's full of corruption that's designed to give the majority of the benefits to the ultra wealthy and that gives few social good-based benefits for the amount taken in taxes. And a lot of people are struggling. Little niceties from Democrats saying, "Don't worry. We're better than Trump. Vote for us to avoid Fascism" isn't going to work on a struggling populace (especially an undereducated one) because the struggling populace wants (and needs) change. And because they lack the civic education, they will think "Different is better than better" and they'll vote the most different seemingly anti-establishment candidate on offer... even if that candidate rules economically like a typical establishment Neoliberal and rules morally and socially as a Fascist.

Context matters with genocide. Genocides don't happen to the ethnic group with the greatest amount of power in a given region. It's always a minority group and/or a group with lesser military power... usually both. So, those meanie wokesters (most of whom are white themselves) could be as vicious as they want to be to white men without there being a threat of systematic elimination of white people. It's not nice, of course to be unkind to anyone. But the most that happens in this context is that the occasional old white man could get his feelings hurt. And in rare cases, one-off cases of violence. That's why there's less of a taboo around poking fun of whities like myself. With the threat of genocide, it's the contextual difference between striking a match and striking a match near a bunch of barrels of kerosene. In their first scenario, maybe one individual gets mildly burned by the match. In the second scenario, the entire world goes up in flames.

I'm not being disingenuous. I'm reading it again now. Though I see what you meant that he didn't make a direct comparison (which I missed)... he is using a lot of strongly disapproving language like one would use with a mass murderer or terrorist... and acting as though her having sex with a bunch of guys is so intensely depraved. Like, this is quite strong for the actions he's condemning... is it not? "Of course, she is a profoundly perverse individual, and I refuse to degrade myself - or her - by pretending to feel pity." "This cheap barrier doesn’t safeguard us from her transgression; it invites us in."

There are 10 stages to genocide. And name-calling is a key ingredient in the 1st of the 10 stages (classification). So, if society normalizes name-calling... it's already taken the first step to becoming a genocide. That's why those who are in support of genocide want to convince the populace that everyone's "too sensitive" and "too PC". Those with genocidal intent from the jump knows that part of their first matter of business in mobilizing the relatively non-genocidal populace towards the enemy group is to normalize name-calling... and to frame people who are against it as a bunch of PC woke-scolds who can't take a joke.

You're taking this a bit seriously, no? Why compare a woman having sex with a bunch of guys in one day to a terrorist or mass murderer? And why couch this in such dangerous language? You write about it like she's some kind of Bloody Mary demon going around murdering unsuspecting men when they say her name three times in the bathroom.

Men and women both have historically relied on connection within a social group to meet all of their physiological, safety, and belonging needs. So, what you said about women coalescing for no purpose and men coalescing for purpose has no evolutionary basis. Number one, connection itself is a purpose in its own rite because it is a survival need. Also, women and men have always worked together with other community members to engage in survival-oriented tasks. So, humans have always coalesced together for connection purposes... and for survival purposes. But regardless of whether women and men connect through purpose or not... there is just a lack of outlets for connection period because community connection has been eroded. It's just that because women tend to value connection and love more while men tend to have more utilitarian and individualistic values (and might tend to see connection to be a bunch of purposeless "inane bird chirping"), women end up going out of their way to meet their connection needs more often than men do. So, men tend to be a lot lonelier but don't consciously realize because they've been conditioned to not value connection as much and to value things like independence and self-sufficiency. Before, people didn't need to go out of their way to meet their connection needs. It was just woven right into the social fabric and both men and women could be passive about it and still get that need met. But over the past 20 years or so, things have moved online more and more. And we're in a time where we don't need to be so deeply interdependent on one another to meet our physiological and safety needs. So, the result is that women and men are very lonely... but that men tend to be lonelier because they don't tend to consciously value human connection as much as women do.

Bernie has woken me up to politics. It was either him or Trump. You could credit them both as equal catalysts for progressive awakening. Those are huge positives of the current era that will have ripple effects for generations to come. And I think a lot of people around my age (30s) were woken up by Bernie and his Social Democratic politics. But attacking neoliberalism, centrism, and corporate Democrats is just par for the course. It's just going to happen. The same with Fascism rising. It's just going to happen. When the center of society stops working for the majority of people, you get both leftward and rightward polarization to try to create a new and better reality. That's basically what left and right wing Populism promises... but right wing Populism can only really offer scapegoats to blame instead of offering real positive policy change. But you're not going to ever suppress these political patterns because these are really just broad-scale collective psychological dynamics playing themselves out in a political form. And now is just the time for these forces to come forward. My prediction is that Republicans will shift further to the right... and the Democrats will do the same. And most people will hate it because it will be like putting a second grader back in the first grade. And in four years, things will pendulum swing further into the progressive direction. The main point is that times of regression leads to times of progress... and times of progress lead to times of regression which begets more progress. And so on and so on. It will suck for now, but things certainly won't spend 50 years on the backswing. People will get fed up when the Fascists don't deliver for them.

That's interesting that there was a search for homeostasis. Is there anything that corresponds to that search in real life? And yes, that's what I was thinking. As a teenager and before, I was really polarized into the Masculine with a strong disdain for the Feminine. But I was unaware because I was of the mind that Masculinity and Femininity were purely social constructs. So, I had layers of Stage Red, Blue, and Orange misogyny and anti-Feminine values that had been buried underneath my beliefs about gender neutrality and a very Stage Green kind of Feminist egalitarianism and a Stage Orange Feminist meritocratic sentiment. Then, when I was 20, I had my first medicine journeys and realized that there was more to the Feminine beyond social construct. And I realized how polarized I'd been towards the Masculine. But my polarization to the Masculine benefitted me in certain ways. I was hyper-individualistic and hyper-motivated. And I knew I could do anything if I put my mind to it. And the universe was this giant cut-throat competition, where I had to always be proving myself different than and superior to others to prove that I deserve to exist. And it was very unhealthy. But I was also thriving in certain ways that I haven't since then. I used to be the most motivated person that I know. And I had a really strong resolve and a high tolerance for pain and discomfort. And I was not aware of inequality and assumed everything to be on an even ground. So, I saw almost everyone as being on equal footing with equal abilities. And I would assume all of my victories were purely based on my merit and the fact that I was working harder than everyone else. And my life was chaotic, and I prided myself on being able to succeed in chaos. Then at 20, I experienced so much hardship that I was humbled because I failed so much because of the chaos in my life. And I realized that people really can be totally taken under by chaos. And my victories were no longer so sweet because I could no longer celebrate my victories in innocence because I realized that there's a lot of luck to having the ability to overcome obstacles and that someone will always be more successful under greater levels of duress and chaos. But before, I used to really pride myself on living this underdog story of succeeding in chaos. And there was this searching always to be superior to others in some way. Then, I experienced how a lot of this was mostly just me trying to get away from self-hatred and shame. And all of my motivation was coming from self-hatred. And I experienced unconditional love and realized that that was really what I was looking for. So, I threw away all my hyper-Masculine coping strategies... even the ones that had been helping me survive and thrive. And I haven't really felt on top of life ever since. I've been half-assing it in life and I never quite feel like I'm riding the wave of life. But the discipline and working class "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" values that I used to have remind me so much of the values these right wing famous guys claim to value. And I just don't like the vibe of the whole thing as it reminds me of my teenage self. But I also kind of miss teenage Emerald and her hyper-discipline and will to power. Teenage Emerald would have taken over the world already if she knew what Adult Emerald now understands. So, I think these guys remind me of the values of my teenage self that I repressed at 20. But that I find them disgusting is par for the course because I really threw the baby out with the bathwater... and those guys are the bathwater to me.

About a year ago or so, there was this pattern that kept coming up in my dreams that I felt a little perplexed by. But I have recently had some insights about. I was having all these sexual dreams with famous right wing men that I find repulsive in real life. And funny enough, most of my sexual dreams feel very awkward and boring. It's like, just happening without any compelling feelings. But these dreams with these guys I find repulsive have all be super intimate feeling and very passionate... and arousing. And that never happens with my dreams. (I'll write out the dreams below.) But it's occurred to me that there's something very archetypal about these dreams. If anyone knows me, they know that I find the tendencies coming from these famous right wing figures really foolish, dishonest, heartless, and repulsive. And I see them as a net negative for humanity because I see them as harmful to the fabric of society. And that's because they're whole job is to froth people into a rage and direct that rage towards more vulnerable groups of people. So, it is precisely the things I find most disgusting about Shadow Masculinity that these guys embody... tyranny, picking on the weaker, making career power moves at the expense of other and society at large, etc. And I've realized recently that I've had a lot of difficulties with integrating my Masculine side over the past 15 years or so. I used to be really polarized into my Masculine side, but I've been more polarized to the Feminine side since I was about 20. And it's decreased my productivity and drive. I used to be crazy productive as a teenager, and now I'm only 50% as productive as I was back then. And I suspect that these guys are a reflection about the disgust that I feel towards my own Masculine side (which I pushed away after realizing that I'd repressed my Feminine side so strongly in my first 20 years of life). And I see them as a similar archetypal reflection to the one that's in the story of the Frog Prince... where the princess has to kiss the frog for the frog to transform into a handsome prince. And it is in my rejection of the "disgusting" Masculinity of the frog that keeps me from integrating the higher expressions of the Masculine... which is symbolized by the prince. Like, I really feel aversive to most things that are Masculine in terms of values to the point where I can't really access a lot of the positive Masculine potentials that used to come to me so naturally as a child and teenager. I even had a dream once that I went into a Burger KING to meet the QUEEN of England. But all these men were in line and I didn't get to meet her. But the Burger King was two stories. And the lower story looked like a Burger King, but the upper floor looked like a dark psychedelic space... like a cool roller rink with black, dark purple, and neon colors. And I could see it from the lower floor but didn't get there. My sense is that, if I want to get in touch with the inner QUEEN (my personal sovereignty and leadership qualities), I must integrate and love the lower Masculinity of the frog... to open up to the higher Masculinity as symbolized by the upper floor of the Burger King in that dream. And I sense that it comes from approaching these figures that I feel disgust towards from a more compassionate place, where I come to understand and find the love there at the deep level. This has come up in my medicine journeys anyway. But I find it difficult because I tend to feel so angry and disgusted. It's hard to "kiss the frog". ___ Here are the dreams... I had two really spicy dreams about Jordan Peterson where he and I were arguing and it turned sexual. In one, he and I were teaching at the same school and his classroom was next to mine (btw, I used to be a school teacher in real life). And I found out from another teacher that he wasn't teaching the right curriculum to the students. And I went to his classroom, and he was up in front teaching, but there were no students there. And I was SUPER angry. And I got into a big argument with him. And then, he was sitting down in a chair and I was standing up. And we were arguing with one another. And I got aggressive and climbed onto his lap and straddled him and was speaking very closely and intensely to him with my face really close to his. And then, were started kissing passionately and aggressively in the same way it happens in movies where the characters are arguing and it turns to suddenly into sex. Then, in the other one he was just arguing with someone and explaining something with intensity. And he was inexplicably making love to me in doing so. --- I had another dream that I hooked up with Andrew Tate at a party and it was really intimate friendly sex. And then, I knew by the look on his face that he'd fallen in love with me and that felt a little too intense because I wasn't looking for anything serious. So, I was taking all these random secret passages to avoid him so that he didn't get too clingy. --- Then in another dream, I was outside at twilight in from of the high school that I went to as a teenager. And there was a bunch of mobile homes that these famous right wingers on tour had set up. And I was a teacher at the school, and another teacher was mentioning that some of them needed to move. And I volunteered to knock on Tucker Carlson's door to tell him this. And I walked over to his door and knocked. And when I knocked, I felt this cool breeze hit me. And I suddenly felt this sense of arousal and anticipation at the prospect of visiting with Tucker. And I was wondering/hoping it would turn sexual. Then, I went in and he had pizza boxes everywhere and his place was messy. And he had all these papers everywhere with blue writing all over them. And I kept trying to engage him in conversation and to take things to a more intimate connected direction. But it was like he struggled to make eye contact with me. And he was so wrapped up in his own thoughts, that he couldn't really see me as I was. And it was like this longing to be seen and connected to and to take things in a physical direction... but it was impossible because he'd already written over everything with "blue pen"... which I think represents him being wrapped up in his own mind and projections onto reality. --- Then a couple months ago, I had a dream that I was at a house party that Elon Musk had thrown... or was in attendence of. And I was a little tired, so I decided to take a nap on this long couch. And everyone at the party left the living room, except Elon Musk. So, it was just me (awake but trying to sleep on the couch) and Elon Musk sitting close to where my feet are. And I can tell that Elon thinks that I'm asleep, and that he's going to try to do something sexual to me in my sleep. So, I decide to pretend to sleep so that I can see what he's going to do to me. And I'm curious but also aroused... but I'm also sort of disgusted by the behavior and waiting for him to incriminate himself with me. I can't recall what happens after that, but I know that something sexual happened. If I remember correctly, things escalated to sex and I just let it keep happening because I wanted it to happen. But I was still pretending to be half asleep.

That wasn't specifically directed at you or the OP... or anyone else in particular. But if you're upset by what I said about relationship with guys with the Madonna/Whore complex, then that's probably a reason to look into it and do some inner work. I brought it up because it's the general reality of being with a guy who can only see you as the whore or the madonna and not as a real person with both and neither of these sides... as no woman is fully either of those dichotomies even if they lean more towards one side or the other. If you're with a guy who sees you as a Madonna, there's no sexual fulfillment there. And you don't get to experience the man's real sexuality as he only keeps that part of himself reserved for the Whore. And it's like a really dry and boring relationship that only looks good on the outside... but is frigid and affectionless on the inside. If you're just seen as a the whore, the guy devalues you and you get neither sexual fulfillment nor love and commitment. So, the only two options with a guy who has this complex both involve a lack of sexual expression and fulfillment. So, it's like... do you like your sexual unfulfillment with a side order of disrespect or would you prefer your sexual unfulfillment without a side order of disrespect? You could probably imagine that neither option would be very fulfilling. It's a little like how a lot of guys think women are functioning... where you're either the beta or the Chad. And women are saving their sexuality for Chad but marrying the beta to get some societal fringe benefit. But that's all really a projection of what really happens with the Madonna/Whore complex... only the projection is the beta/Chad complex.

I was just thinking about this after I wrote the reply that you responded to. I suspect it's a bit like tending to lie to ourselves about only having one of the polarities and going semi-unconscious to the raw sexual impulse. Like, in recent times, I've been getting a lot more in touch with my sexuality. And I see how there's this muddied intertwining of my drive towards sex (purely for sexual gratification sake) with my drive towards relationship and my identity-creation drive. My perception is that living in a society that has a huge Madonna Whore Complex tends to cause women to be more likely to wrap sex drive, relationship, and identity into one homogenized thing in order to have a "good identity" and to feel worthy of a loving relationship. But then, raw sexuality feels deeply intertwined with identity as well because of the identity, sexuality, and relationship-drive interweaving. And the experience of external desire or lack thereof, feels like it means something affirming of our identity or unaffirming. And there can be a sense of loss of identity in aging because of society being less likely to project sexual desire onto women over a certain age, so it shakes that underlying identity since sexuality and identity got wrapped into one. Then, (though I don't have this one as much), there's also a tendency to create identity from romantic relationships. But it causes women to be more likely to have a relationally dependent sex-drive that feels like it belongs to someone else, rather than having a sex-drive that feels like our own that roots in our own bodily sovereignty. So, I've been thinking in the past few days about how to unweave those strands of identity, sexuality, and romantic relationship more so that each of those can just be what they are without getting confused together.

Yes, I think they represent parts of my repressed Masculine side that I find aversive. I used to be really in touch with my Masculine side in my teens, but had all these realizations about the negative side of that. And these guys represent the excesses of that negativity. So, I think the steaminess of the dreams are all about a need to integrate with those parts as I'm really disinterested in them in real life.

How old are you? This seems like something a 14 year old boy would say trying to be edgy. Yet again... your name is EdgeGod900... so...

Madonna and Whore Complex has to do with a split vision of the Feminine in yourself and in women (as a result of the internal split). You either see the Feminine as pure and motherly and the image of perfection of the Madonna. And this is what you might seek in relationship and marriage. But all the sexual attraction is wrapped up in the image of the Whore, who gets all your sexual desire but none of your respect, commitment, or love. From a female perspective, being in relationships with guys with this complex is sexually unfulfilling and stifling because that sexual half of the dichotomy isn't being accepted or getting its needs met. And depending on the temperament of the woman and code of ethics she abides by, it either leads to self-sacrifice and sexual starvation or cheating. But also in the guy's life, he has this dichotomy of sexual starvation or cheating to deal with this complex because he also can't get his sexual needs met in the relationship.

I see Jordan Peterson as somewhat handsome. And I could see being interested in him if the timeline was different and he wasn't such an ideologue. But with the other guys, I find them to be physically unattractive and unattractive personality-wise too. That's especially true for Elon Musk's looks. I see him, and I just don't like looking at his face. So, I don't think it has to do with an actual attraction to them. But in the dreams, there's lots of spicy feelings. I think it's because they represent parts of me that I've repressed. And there's a strong desire for reintegration.

To be clear, I don't have any attraction to these guys in real life. I think Jordan Peterson would be somewhat handsome to me if he wasn't such an ideologue. But the other guys, I genuinely find unattractive in multiple ways, especially Elon Musk. I think it's more about my own power... and pushing away my own potentials for power because of my disgust towards the misuse of power and the imperfect systems I'd have to leverage to increase my power. But I do have a very strong will to power and very strong survival impulses. I just feel conflicted about it because I'm very sensitive the the sufferings in the world. And there's been this pattern of "Why should I get to thrive, when there are people in the world who are barely surviving?" (Of course, this is a question none of these guys from my dreams would ask themselves. They'd just be like "Who cares? I'm getting mine.") But my concern for human suffering causes me to find self-enriching and empowering endeavors very conflicting because I need them to feel safe and comfortable and empowered... but "Why should I get to feel safe and comfortable and empowered when so many others don't?" And I have a lot of feelings of responsibility over the suffering in the world. And it's this over-extension into the Nurturing Mother archetype that's left me drained because I've unconsciously felt like the mother to the entire world since I was a child because of certain patterns that were at play in my childhood. And I don't like it when people use their will to power in a way that benefits themselves at the expense of others. So, I think this is about integrating and coming to peace with my will to power... even if others are still struggling out there. I have to basically leave them behind in the fire of the world to save myself and my family.... like an animal in the woods that must eat or be eaten But there's still this self-sacrificing sense of, "I should go down with the ship" that I find difficult to shake despite its fruitlessness and the depletion it causes.

@mmKay I definitely think there's a lot to that love/hate dynamic.... both internally and externally. It's the resistance and dislike that creates the attraction to my own Shadow... and the Masculine qualities that I've been repressing. But there's also this dynamic in the macrocosm with men and women... where there's this strong love/hate and difficulty with integration and harmony. And I see this Shadow Masculine dynamic coming up like in the story of the Princess and the Frog, where the princess is disgusted with the frog. But she kisses it (accepts and loves it), and so it transforms into a handsome prince. And we are all the princess... we are all the frog... and we all have the potential to be the prince. That's why I'm putting this here in this subforum. I think it has a more macrocosmic application. Like, how can we all "kiss the frog" of things like exploitation, tyranny, authoritarianism, hegemony, war, and all the other 'disgusting' expressions of the Shadow Masculine... and allow for higher expressions of the Masculine to rise from them. It's similar to how the World Wars of the early 20th century were the dirt that the flower of the peace and equality-related movements of the 60s to grow out of. You can't have the flower without the dirt. And you can't have the prince without the frog.

@Brittany That makes sense. I don't like gender essentialism because it fits people into boxes and creates polarization. Plus, I am naturally quite a bit Masculine in my energy as well. So, I want to own whatever is there. I find it mostly helpful to know about these energies and archetypes to spot the biases and imbalances in myself and society at large. And it really opens ones eyes up about how polarized into the Masculine society really is... in ways that have almost nothing to do with human gender. The key is really to use the understanding to pinpoint imbalances and deconstruct boxes... rather than using them to construct them. Like, you can use the understanding of the Masculine and Feminine principle to create rules like "Men do/should behave this way. Women do/should behave that way." And then, it becomes an issue that creates more repression and polarization. But if these understandings reveal a deeper pattern of resistance towards the Masculine or Feminine, they can be used to subtract and deconstruct biases that we may not realize are there without an understanding of the archetypal Feminine/Masculine. And it's important to set the goal as integration and taking away barriers to wholeness.

That is true. I feel a lot of anger and disgust in real life at this entire collective human pattern around the rise in authoritarian thinking. I intensely dislike it, and I fear the implications of what it could mean about where we're heading as a species. And I am especially disgusted by the famous people who are spear-heading and stoking the flames of it... often times just to grift and make money. But I think that intensity of disgust and anger that I feel translates to me pushing away parts of myself to try to be "nothing like them". And in that disgust, I push these parts of myself away. And then, I have these intense passionate and romantic feelings in these dreams about sexual union with these men I find repulsive in real life. But it's just me wanting union with the parts of myself that I've pushed away in my disgust.

Sure, they're grifters. That's part of the disgust factor and why they're the Frog. They play tough guy misogynist online to steal attention and money from insecure men and people who hate the passage of time. But the bigger disgust factor is that they're effective and they're popular. So, it's more a a disgust at this Froggy Masculine side of humanity at large. Edit: But this is where the large scale application of these dreams comes in. How to embrace this Froggy Masculinity in humanity in a way that doesn't enable it or excuse it... but yet transforms it into something exalted.