Emerald

I wasn't referring to that one in particular when I said there were some that had merit. I was focused towards other posts on there which were more thought out than I expected on first glance. I expected a bunch of sentimental "I'm a queen and I need a king" stuff. Now, that post is a bit mean. That said, there are still some kernels of truth in it. There are many men who are like that. And I think it is a generational thing. But of course, I wouldn't use it as a blanket statement about men. And I wouldn't call names. There just are a lot of men who behave that way. So, it's not really surprising that some women would have experiences with these men and be upset and make such a statement.

Many of these are accurate. It doesn't seem as low quality as the OP seemed to suggest. I was under the impression that it was women who post stuff to cope with relationship problems with memes like...

It's a bit different than that. They won't be able to drop their hate for the opposite gender until the roots of it are dealt with, which is low self-esteem and self-hatred. They will also need to integrate their inner opposites (Anima or Animus). Without the inner opposite integrated, neediness for relationship to the opposite gender will arise. And it will be like halves desperately seeking their half, instead of being whole within themselves. But the self-hatred has to be addressed first.

@AtheisticNonduality You two, don't get all hot and bothered too quickly. Obviously if she genuinely felt like she didn't need a man, she wouldn't have felt compelled to post about how much she doesn't need a man. It's the same thing with MGTOW guys. If they were really trying to be independent from women and go their own way, they wouldn't be in a movement that's centered on how much they don't want to be with women. Their whole movement is about relationship to women. The more resistance people show to the opposite gender and the more they brag about how much they don't need anyone of the opposite gender.... the greater the chance is that they are absolutely OBSESSED with the opposite gender. Look in a MGTOW guys head and every other thought he thinks will be about women. Look into a woman like the one in the post's head and every other thought she thinks will be about men. The more resistance there is, the more worship there is.

I have not seen that subreddit as it wouldn't really appeal. And I would guess that most women on here are quite comfortable with their masculine side given that we resonate with Leo's content which has a masculine slant. And this type of "men ain't shit" behavior comes about for women who have an unintegrated masculine side and feel 100% dependent on men for their happiness, which leads to resentment of men because of the power they give away to them. And so they seek to make men feel the same way. Overall, what Red Pill is is male frustration because the men involved feel unlovable in the eyes of women. And it's the same thing with women who make these sentiments, being petty and trying to take men down a peg because these women feel unlovable in the eyes of men. So, it is really the same kind of pettiness that comes about. Red Pill guys are always putting women up on a pedestal and then getting resentful that women are up on a pedestal and then trying to take them down off the imaginary pedestal. It's the same thing as these women are doing. They put men up on a pedestal and get resentful that men are up on a pedestal and then start shit-talking men to drag them off the imaginary pedestal. I see women from my (very redneck) hometown sometimes post these memes about how 'You only find a good woman once because we're rare. And if he lets you go, then that's his loss because he missed out on a Goddess' But the roots of it are deep wounding and feelings of low self-esteem... and a codependent sense that their life is incomplete without a man and a feeling like men hold all their power and worth. So, in that regard, it is the feminine mirror to the Red Pill stuff.

Hi @soos_mite_ah, if you have any questions about my practice, feel free to ask.

Thank you for recommending me.

Cocky guys are honestly super annoying. Their cockiness is usually a facade that covers deeper insecurities and issues. Some women will mistake cockiness for confidence. But usually, once a woman has experience and discernment, cockiness becomes super repellant.

I’m not in denial. I’ve just had enough experiences to know the difference between a mature man and an immature man. Immature men hyper-focus toward the youngest, hottest women as they see youth and beauty as the main or only attraction trigger. This is understandable until about the age of 25, as that’s just where young guys are in their development. But it is a sign that a man has not yet fully matured. Mature men (usually 25+) will be somewhat focused towards looks/ beauty but will require the presence of other personality-based attraction triggers to be interested in pursuing. So, they will not experience the looks-trigger as the “main” one but as the first one out of many. Now, perhaps you’re under 25 and this just isn’t where you’re at now. That would be quite normal. But women are very interested in men who are mature. And part of that maturity is a more multifaceted attraction instinct. And if you want to be seen as a high quality and mature partner, the best thing you can do is tap into your other attraction triggers.

The physical attraction trigger has to be there to be interest in the first place. So, it is the first and most apparent trigger. But to call it the ‘main’ one is a perspective of someone who isn’t in touch with the other triggers... which are also instinctual and not logical And this is a good litmus test that women use to sort men as she gains more experience. If a man only or primarily focuses on the looks/youth attraction trigger, this betrays a lack of experience/development. But if a man is attracted to a woman in a multifaceted way, this man will be much better at bonding.

Beauty is an important attraction trigger for high quality men too. And you probably see it as the main one because it’s the first and easiest instinct to notice. Even a teenage boy notices this trigger. But a high quality man becomes attracted to a woman based on many triggers as he matures. And physical attraction based on beauty is one just facet of the male attraction instinct. A man with an integrated feminine side, will have a more multifaceted instinctual response to women that goes beyond the surface. You’ll find out when once you get there. ?

The key word here that she’s disagreeing with is “main”. Neither she nor I agree with your argument that it is the ‘main’ attraction trigger for men who are highly conscious. It is definitely an attraction trigger and an important one. And it is the initiatory attraction trigger... as if a man isn’t attracted to a woman, he won’t be interested. But most men can and do get attracted to women around their age. The average age difference in couples is two years. But the same is true to an extent for women. If a man doesn’t hit a certain bar of physical attractiveness, then there is not much he can do to bring himself above. There are some guys you just know you won’t be attracted to. Though women’s bar for looks is usually a couple points underneath her physical attractiveness level. For example, a woman who’s a 6 would go for a 4 with a lot going for him... but definitely not a 3 regardless of what he’s got going for him. So, attraction definitely needs to be there. But it isn’t the main trigger for attraction in a well-developed man... he will have many triggers that need to be there for him to consider a woman for relationship. But attraction will be the first trigger. Sex on the other hand, he will go for just the attraction trigger as long as he feels there isn’t a power imbalance in the situation otherwise. But a man who’s specifically looking for 18-20 year olds for sex who is past the age off 26 is probably looking for an imbalance in power and is having some maturity issues.

@Harlen Kelly Most men will want to sleep with 18-20 year old women. But a high quality man will be concerned more for her well-being than with satisfying his base instincts. A highly conscious man will have his lower age limit at 22 or 23 when a person’s brain stops developing. Anything younger than that is exploitative. But AGAIN, this is a conversation about how women’s taste in men changes as we age. It doesn’t really matter what men generally respond to. When we’re older and looking for a partner, we will filter out men who are only focused toward these surface level things.

No she isn’t arguing against it. She and I are saying the exact same thing. She’s stated that she agrees with you many times. But older women are more selective despite the fact that they have a smaller pool of suitors. The size of the pool of suitors has nothing to do with how selective a woman is. As I’ve said, female bias exists independently from male bias. Fewer men are interested in older women, this is true. But likewise older women are much less likely to accept low quality men compared to when they were younger. So, older women are more selective than younger women. That’s just the way it is. Ask any woman over 30, and she’ll tell you that her standards have gone up since she was in her early 20s... simply because she knows better now what a good man looks like.

I went back and realized that I misunderstood what you said. But I responded to it earlier thinking you were arguing that a conscious man would get in a relationship with an emotionally immature woman. This was the quote... “I addressed your point about a conscious man forming a relationship with an immature but hot young woman on my response to @Etherial Cat.” But I reiterate, why are you arguing with Ethereal Cat and I when we’re not disagreeing with you. Obviously, we know that physical attractiveness and youthful beauty is a trigger for male attraction. That’s a “duh” thing. You’d have to live under a rock not to know that. But when we’re talking about female sexuality and how it changes over time and how tastes in men change with experience (which very few people know about) it gets resisted against. And in ways that make no sense. It really seems like you’re upset that we’re talking about women’s preferences in men, so you feel like you have to argue with or push back against something. And you continue arguing with something that we’re not even disagreeing with.

Neither of us are arguing against that. Attractive women are attractive... of course. And this will be noticed by both men and women and it will trigger that instinct in men (as well as women who are attracted to women.) Everybody knows how this element of male sexuality works. You’d have to live under a rock to not understand that. But again, when we’re talking about what women’s perspective and biases are (which most men aren’t aware of because it’s not as apparent), you are arguing against it by talking about men’s biases and perspective when that’s not really relevant. And while we fully grasp and even explicitly state in all of our responses that we’re fully aware that men are attracted to youth and beauty, you keep arguing against what we’re saying about women’s desires and how women’s tastes in men get more refined as they age. What must be understood is that man who is hyper-focused on the looks-based attraction element of women is a man who is immature and is not a high quality partner. Also, you did argue earlier that a highly conscious man would be in a relationship with an emotionally immature woman because of the attractiveness factor alone. So, you’re changing your argument now. But you’re now (because you’ve moved the goalposts) arguing for something that Ethereal Cat and I don’t disagree with. And that doesn’t make sense.

I’m not denying that youth and attractiveness are universally attractive to men. That’s biologically wired in. The distinction I’m making is that, as a woman gets older her biases filter out men who are hyper-focused toward surface level things. But I am actually far more comfortable now with aging than I was at 20. When I was 20, I would get super freaked out about it because I thought men would cease to be interested in me. But I realize now, at age 32, that men who are 32+ who are specifically looking for a woman who is barely an adult or who are hyper-focused toward beauty as a standard for relationship are low quality partners. You cannot grow with these types of men. And that, a man who becomes interested in me at age 32 is far more likely to want me as more than just arm candy. Spam guys filter themselves a bit more.

Men are universally attracted to youth and beauty. There is no argument there. But a man who is ONLY or PRIMARILY seeking a youthful and beautiful partner regardless of compatibility, capacity for intimacy, and power equivalence IS an undesirable man. Younger women usually aren’t experienced enough to pick up on this an will fall for him because she is seeking a partner that seems mature as a result of his age. But this immaturity will rise quickly. Older women have experienced this dynamic already and see the lameness of these kinds of guys. It’s kind of like how, when you’re a 15 year old girl and your friend is dating a 21 year old guy, you get jealous because he seems so much older and more mature. But then you get a few years older and you’re like, “Oh! That guy was an immature creep.” It’s like that... only without the added creepiness of the girl not being past the age of consent.

But this means that that man is a low quality partner... to younger and older woman alike. So, this type of man is not actually high consciousness. A highly conscious 40 year old man will still find 20 year old women physically attractive... simply because 20 year old women are attractive and because his instincts naturally will fire in response to that beauty. But a highly conscious man has control of his impulses and instincts. He will not let his urges drive him because he has character and discipline. A conscious 40 year old man, will be aware of the power imbalance and exploitative dynamic in a relationship with a 20 year old. He will be concerned for her well-being. And he will prefer a partner who is his match in terms of intellect and stage of life. An immature man, will simply let his instincts drive him toward a younger woman who he has a power imbalance with. This is why this type of man is not high quality as he is immature and flimsy. And older women have dealt with lots of these men. So, she will be able to peg him as an unsuitable partner.

I’m not saying the thread is limited to that. But we were all in a conversation about women’s preferences and biases. And you essentially made the argument “No. Those aren’t women’s preferences and biases because male preferences and biases say otherwise.” That’s why I responded that way. Male perspectives/biases doesn’t really affect women’s perspectives/biases. So, a just because men generally are attracted to younger women. This doesn’t change the fact that women get more selective as they age. And we were talking about the dynamics of the latter fact, and you’re seeking to argue against it with the former fact. You essentially said the male equivalent of, “Yeah but unattractive women prefer this.” Just as you probably aren’t very tuned in to what unattractive women prefer, women as they age and get experience are also not tuned into the way that immature men only look for surface level qualities and may even be exploitative to young women. We will tune our radar to men who we can grow old together with, who see women as whole people who will continue to age. And who will prefer this depth of companionship to trading us in for a new model every decade.

I know who you were responding to. You weren’t understanding her point, so I clarified.

No, we’re not confusing how we get attracted to men with how men get attracted to women. We’re talking about how older women get attracted to men. That’s what the post is about. It isn’t about general male preference. It’s about the type of man that older women find suitable of time and attention and how much more chaff she will know to sort once she actually knows what wheat looks like. This is about our biases, not yours. While all men will be attracted to youth and beauty, high quality men will not feel compelled to seek relationship purely on this basis. He will be concerned for the well-being of much younger women who just came of age, even if he recognizes their attractiveness. A high quality and mature man will be concerned with far more than sexual attraction. His relationship choices will be based on a desire to have intimacy, go deep, and find long term companionship. That’s what a high quality man is to all women, young and old. It’s just that very young women usually haven’t discovered this yet and usually won’t until their late 20s or so.

Yes, older women are generally less attractive to men. But women still become more selective as they age as they get clearer on what they need in a relationship to feel fulfilled. But your top 10% idea and who fits into that 10% usually doesn’t resonate with women. That’s more of what men think is positive based on their own biases and not what is actually fulfilling for women... which is a man who is emotionally mature and stable. And keep in mind that older women have all been younger women before. They know how a woman’s youth and beauty are often sought after in exploitative ways by low quality men. They have many experiences with this to draw upon. So, they have a keener system for filtering these men out, and they also attract fewer of these men. Also, men who solely seek out much younger women are just not high quality men. They’re usually just looking for sex or arm candy. If a man is 35 and seeking out 20 year olds to sleep with, he’s a liability. If a man is unable to feel love and attraction to a woman as she ages, then he is not good husband material. And the woman with such a man will always be replaced by a younger model. This is why it’s a bit more difficult for older women to find a partner. Most mature men are already taken because they married young. And the bachelor-for-life types are low quality. So, slimmer pickings because most ACTUAL high quality men are already taken but also higher selectivity because they know what they want/need and they know what a high quality man actually looks like. And an unwillingness to get with low quality fuck boys because they can’t give her what she needs. And it can be a dilemma. But it’s not really a dilemma for her that ‘Oh no! fuck boys are slightly less interested in having one-night stands with me.’ It’s more the dilemma of ‘Jeez. There are no decent single men my age.’

That’s just not true. Women learn a lot about men in their first decade of adulthood that they don’t realize when they’re young. And they grow disenchanted with just any guy because the chad/sexual conquester type of guy doesn’t fulfill what women are really looking for, which is intimacy and love. It often takes women a while to understand the difference between a high quality partner and a low quality partner. And this lesson is often learned the hard way. So, even though younger women are sought after more often than older women, they tend to have much lower standards than older women who actually know what they want/need and have been around the block a time or two. But men often project less openness and more pickiness onto younger women because they represent a cultural ideal of feminine beauty and are an ideal projection screen for male insecurity. So, a man might feel that the younger woman is pickier simply because he feels intimidated by her. But this is a feeling not an objective truth. The more learned a woman becomes, the more selective she becomes. I gave chances to men at age 20 that I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole now at age 32. And my taste at 16 was even worse.

Actually women tend to get more selective as they get older. Young women generally have much lower standards for what they’ll accept in a partner. They tend to have less of a grasp on their boundaries. This is why they end up falling for low quality guys. But what you call a “beta male provider” is also what I call a higher quality man. That’s a man who has his life together who is good husband material. A man you can actually connect to. So, what you see as a lowering of standards, women see as a raising of standards. The older women get, the more they tend to become disenchanted with unreliable and flighty men. It’s novel when you’re 16-20 but very blah after that.