Emerald

I’m not denying that youth and attractiveness are universally attractive to men. That’s biologically wired in. The distinction I’m making is that, as a woman gets older her biases filter out men who are hyper-focused toward surface level things. But I am actually far more comfortable now with aging than I was at 20. When I was 20, I would get super freaked out about it because I thought men would cease to be interested in me. But I realize now, at age 32, that men who are 32+ who are specifically looking for a woman who is barely an adult or who are hyper-focused toward beauty as a standard for relationship are low quality partners. You cannot grow with these types of men. And that, a man who becomes interested in me at age 32 is far more likely to want me as more than just arm candy. Spam guys filter themselves a bit more.

Men are universally attracted to youth and beauty. There is no argument there. But a man who is ONLY or PRIMARILY seeking a youthful and beautiful partner regardless of compatibility, capacity for intimacy, and power equivalence IS an undesirable man. Younger women usually aren’t experienced enough to pick up on this an will fall for him because she is seeking a partner that seems mature as a result of his age. But this immaturity will rise quickly. Older women have experienced this dynamic already and see the lameness of these kinds of guys. It’s kind of like how, when you’re a 15 year old girl and your friend is dating a 21 year old guy, you get jealous because he seems so much older and more mature. But then you get a few years older and you’re like, “Oh! That guy was an immature creep.” It’s like that... only without the added creepiness of the girl not being past the age of consent.

But this means that that man is a low quality partner... to younger and older woman alike. So, this type of man is not actually high consciousness. A highly conscious 40 year old man will still find 20 year old women physically attractive... simply because 20 year old women are attractive and because his instincts naturally will fire in response to that beauty. But a highly conscious man has control of his impulses and instincts. He will not let his urges drive him because he has character and discipline. A conscious 40 year old man, will be aware of the power imbalance and exploitative dynamic in a relationship with a 20 year old. He will be concerned for her well-being. And he will prefer a partner who is his match in terms of intellect and stage of life. An immature man, will simply let his instincts drive him toward a younger woman who he has a power imbalance with. This is why this type of man is not high quality as he is immature and flimsy. And older women have dealt with lots of these men. So, she will be able to peg him as an unsuitable partner.

I’m not saying the thread is limited to that. But we were all in a conversation about women’s preferences and biases. And you essentially made the argument “No. Those aren’t women’s preferences and biases because male preferences and biases say otherwise.” That’s why I responded that way. Male perspectives/biases doesn’t really affect women’s perspectives/biases. So, a just because men generally are attracted to younger women. This doesn’t change the fact that women get more selective as they age. And we were talking about the dynamics of the latter fact, and you’re seeking to argue against it with the former fact. You essentially said the male equivalent of, “Yeah but unattractive women prefer this.” Just as you probably aren’t very tuned in to what unattractive women prefer, women as they age and get experience are also not tuned into the way that immature men only look for surface level qualities and may even be exploitative to young women. We will tune our radar to men who we can grow old together with, who see women as whole people who will continue to age. And who will prefer this depth of companionship to trading us in for a new model every decade.

I know who you were responding to. You weren’t understanding her point, so I clarified.

No, we’re not confusing how we get attracted to men with how men get attracted to women. We’re talking about how older women get attracted to men. That’s what the post is about. It isn’t about general male preference. It’s about the type of man that older women find suitable of time and attention and how much more chaff she will know to sort once she actually knows what wheat looks like. This is about our biases, not yours. While all men will be attracted to youth and beauty, high quality men will not feel compelled to seek relationship purely on this basis. He will be concerned for the well-being of much younger women who just came of age, even if he recognizes their attractiveness. A high quality and mature man will be concerned with far more than sexual attraction. His relationship choices will be based on a desire to have intimacy, go deep, and find long term companionship. That’s what a high quality man is to all women, young and old. It’s just that very young women usually haven’t discovered this yet and usually won’t until their late 20s or so.

Yes, older women are generally less attractive to men. But women still become more selective as they age as they get clearer on what they need in a relationship to feel fulfilled. But your top 10% idea and who fits into that 10% usually doesn’t resonate with women. That’s more of what men think is positive based on their own biases and not what is actually fulfilling for women... which is a man who is emotionally mature and stable. And keep in mind that older women have all been younger women before. They know how a woman’s youth and beauty are often sought after in exploitative ways by low quality men. They have many experiences with this to draw upon. So, they have a keener system for filtering these men out, and they also attract fewer of these men. Also, men who solely seek out much younger women are just not high quality men. They’re usually just looking for sex or arm candy. If a man is 35 and seeking out 20 year olds to sleep with, he’s a liability. If a man is unable to feel love and attraction to a woman as she ages, then he is not good husband material. And the woman with such a man will always be replaced by a younger model. This is why it’s a bit more difficult for older women to find a partner. Most mature men are already taken because they married young. And the bachelor-for-life types are low quality. So, slimmer pickings because most ACTUAL high quality men are already taken but also higher selectivity because they know what they want/need and they know what a high quality man actually looks like. And an unwillingness to get with low quality fuck boys because they can’t give her what she needs. And it can be a dilemma. But it’s not really a dilemma for her that ‘Oh no! fuck boys are slightly less interested in having one-night stands with me.’ It’s more the dilemma of ‘Jeez. There are no decent single men my age.’

That’s just not true. Women learn a lot about men in their first decade of adulthood that they don’t realize when they’re young. And they grow disenchanted with just any guy because the chad/sexual conquester type of guy doesn’t fulfill what women are really looking for, which is intimacy and love. It often takes women a while to understand the difference between a high quality partner and a low quality partner. And this lesson is often learned the hard way. So, even though younger women are sought after more often than older women, they tend to have much lower standards than older women who actually know what they want/need and have been around the block a time or two. But men often project less openness and more pickiness onto younger women because they represent a cultural ideal of feminine beauty and are an ideal projection screen for male insecurity. So, a man might feel that the younger woman is pickier simply because he feels intimidated by her. But this is a feeling not an objective truth. The more learned a woman becomes, the more selective she becomes. I gave chances to men at age 20 that I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole now at age 32. And my taste at 16 was even worse.

Actually women tend to get more selective as they get older. Young women generally have much lower standards for what they’ll accept in a partner. They tend to have less of a grasp on their boundaries. This is why they end up falling for low quality guys. But what you call a “beta male provider” is also what I call a higher quality man. That’s a man who has his life together who is good husband material. A man you can actually connect to. So, what you see as a lowering of standards, women see as a raising of standards. The older women get, the more they tend to become disenchanted with unreliable and flighty men. It’s novel when you’re 16-20 but very blah after that.

Now, I can understand the intensity of your reaction as someone who has some sub kinks. And I’ve worked 1-on-1 in life-coaching with several people dealing with more intense versions of these kinks/fetishes. And I’m going to wager that the OP doesn’t really understand the scope of how triggering the criticisms he’s giving can be for someone dealing with fetish. And I’ll also wager that he doesn’t realize that people with kinks don’t really choose to have them. Lots of people try so hard to get rid of them because of the shame they feel. So, I don’t think getting into a pissing match with him is really going to get him to understand these things. Also, considering that he posted this, it does show that something about this fetish is triggering for him... perhaps highlighting some analogous internal dynamics, even if they don’t necessarily express as fetish.

Doing some Active Imagination again, I see. Very interesting.

That makes a lot of sense actually. Interesting connection between the archetypal parents and the archetypal lovers.

Aha!!! The truth always rises! ? J/K

Yeah, I could see living that lifestyle as being a way for codependent and narcissistic people to treat the other as their other half. The codependent externalizes and projects their personal sovereignty onto others, where the narcissistic adopts a hyper-sovereign personsa. So, this dynamic can be helped by either person getting in touch with their own emotional compass and genuine personal sovereignty.

I thought you were referring to simply the act of calling a man “daddy” in bed and being aroused by it. Or a man enjoying being called “daddy” in bed. Basically something that has a beginning and an end that’s a dynamic explored in the bedroom, where there is otherwise a balanced relationship. In which case, I think that’s fine to explore and doesn’t inherently hurt anyone. Though it’s still wise to explore deeper as kinks can tell us a lot about ourselves. Now, if someone’s lifestyle is completely swallowed up in this dynamic, then there’s a problem. And I can certainly see some very dysfunctional dynamics with codependency come up.

It could be about invoking that more archetypal paternal masculine quality. Sex as an archetypal symbol is all about the interplay between the masculine and feminine... which can be expressed through certain God images. So, that could be part of it... wanting to tap into that archetype and the feminine counterpart to that archetype.

People with kinks are not inherently abusive. In fact, the majority of people have some kinks. And there is nothing inherently abusive or unhealthy about exploring those kinks with a partner. But a person is wise to look at the underlying reasons that the kink has resonance... which can often be about something other than what the kink itself relates to.

I definitely think the dynamic comes from stuff in the Unconscious for sure. But I see this (and most kinks) as a fairly benign symptom of deeper dynamics that would be best explored and resolved at its roots. I don’t see kinks as inherently negative to express unless it causes harm to someone. Nor do I view kinks as something that feeds themselves in intensity. Basically, the kink is a symptom of a deeper cause that doesn’t Itself impact the deeper cause or make it worse.

I don’t really think I am dancing around it. I genuinely think that’s the appeal... the combination between... - dominance/submission - the procreation drive - puritanical notions of sex as dirty and desire to sanitize parenthood and see it as separate from sex. Of course, this doesn’t preclude the possibility of there being some kind of Oedipal or Elektra dynamic. But I think, far and away, you’ll find that this fairly common sexual trope is much more about the three factors above than involving a genuine desire for incest.

It could have to do with an incestuous drive for some. Those complexes certainly exist. But my guess is that, when you talk to women who like to call their partner “daddy” in bed, most of them would probably be repulsed to imagine their actual father in a sexual way. My money would be far more on the connection between the procreation instinct and calling the man a name that suggests both dominance and parenthood.

I think the majority of people are not conscious that procreation drives are the reason why they respond so much to the term daddy. The word does have a lot of taboo to it but also a lot of libidinal charge. And I think it is because saying that word triggers some deeper procreation instinct. But most people are only partially aware of what’s happening in their body during sex. And they aren’t so much in touch with (or perhaps they are even uncomfortable with) the erotic drive to create new life. So, when a woman calls a man daddy, it’s going to trigger that deeper procreation instinct in him and her and create more sexual charge. But it’s also a taboo so it will create other more difficult emotions that bring up a resistance. And this allows an internal drama to play out externally in sexual ritual. So, saying the word ‘daddy’ triggers a mixture of the procreation instinct cresting above the surface of consciousness... followed by the shame associated with sex and the desire to sanitize parenthood. So, it pushes lots of psycho-sexual buttons for people because of the clash between the procreation instinct and the puritanical notion of sex as dirty/bad/naughty... and the resulting desire to strip the idea of motherhood and fatherhood of its sexual origin, and hence its dirtiness from the puritanical point of view. This is why it’s so common also to see a lot of “Shame on you” messages in sexual content and within many people’s kinks. It hits that button because of the inner clash between instinct and Puritanism.

I guess I just don’t see the term daddy as being about their actual dad the majority of the time. I could definitely see it be more fetish-like than the Mami or Papi association as you’d mentioned. Though I genuinely believe that parenthood/sex connection accounts for most of the urge. But I think it might be more about the social unacceptability/taboo of the word and playing up to a submissive dynamic and to make the man feel more dominant. I mean, it could be issues with the father. But I think ‘daddy’ is a pretty well-used taboo sexual term. So, I don’t necessarily think women that use that term are doing so out of some latent desire for their father’s love. It’s a common sex trope at this point.

My actual daddy hasn’t been called daddy in a very long time. His name is grandpa now. So, if I were to call my partner daddy, it’s only because of the association between sex as being the act that makes a man a father. And if you look at (for example) some people who speak Spanish might call their partner Mami or Papi as a term of endearment expressing sexual attraction. And that comes from the association between parenthood and sex. So, I don’t see calling a man daddy in a sexual way as weird because it would have nothing to do with my father. I see it more like Papi is used in Spanish. But there’s a lot of cognitive dissonance when it comes to the connection between sex, sexual attraction, and child rearing. We like to see sex as separate from the urge for procreation. This is one of the reasons why daddy sounds so weird, because we don’t like to think of the connection between sex and parenthood.

Thank you and you're welcome!

It's very specific. You pick up on this particular guy's energy and vibe and gestures and flaws. And that all adds up to more than the sum of his parts. I remember in the 7th grade, I had a huge crush on this kid Billy. And he had a really wide squarish head. Something that would definitely be regarded generally as unattractive. My friend Joe used to call him fat head. But every time I'd see him from the back, I'd notice that particularity about him and just feel all kinds of fireworks. And it was little things like that were attractive because they were part of him, but were not attractive in general. And this has always been the case for me. It's always the feelings that his unique idiosyncrasies (physical traits, gestures, patterns of speech, vocal tone, flaws) create a vibe and that vibe itself is enticing. Now, as far as polarity goes, I am a woman who is mostly feminine with some masculine... maybe a 75%/25% split. And I'm rarely attracted to hyper masculine guys beyond simply recognition that "Okay, I see this person is objectively attractive." I usually get the Cupid's Arrow for men who are mostly masculine with some feminine... again probably 75/25. And it's nearly always been that split for me. These are the men that I'm most polarized to because my feminine side is attracted to their masculine side and my masculine side is attracted to their feminine side. That's how polarity works. You attune to your own energetic signature and you find someone with the mirror opposite. But some common things with all attractions are these ecstatic feelings in the center of the chest and base of the spine... and a general warmth and relaxation upon thinking of the guy. But I've never felt the same way about someone twice. Each attraction I've had deals directly with the unique energy of the person.