Emerald

I think the men who talk about these things like this don’t realize how much of an anti-advertisement this is from the perspective of a women. When a woman is deciding who she wants to be her partner, if she is wise, she will take his fixation on looks as a big red flag. A man who’s all about dating 10s is a liability to the woman. Even if the woman is a solid 10 now, she knows that beauty is ephemeral. And so, her beauty will fade. And such a man who needs a 10 to feel good about himself will leave her for a younger woman. And will leave the younger woman for a younger woman. And so on and so on until he’s 80 and married to an opportunistic 25 year old. He can keep re-upping on more and more 10s to prop up his self-esteem. But if she buys into this framework and tries to play this game, she can’t keep re-upping her looks the same way. And so women must die that death and find a mature man who understands the value in dying that death as well. They must both transcend the game. And many men and some women never will. And she is left feeling in a state of permanently increasing inadequacy where she hides herself from the world with every new line on her face. And he is in a constant search for youthful beauty to fill his voids by seeking newer and newer models. And any male/female relationship is doomed under this circumstance. So, the wise woman will look for tells of immaturity as it comes to women’s looks and sort the men accordingly.

It’s not even that. Shady men aren’t that attractive to most women when they imagine their ideal relationship. But an unpicky woman just gets feelings for some guy in her social circle and then ignores the red flags and deal-breakers. And this unfortunately can happen to any woman because the feelings are intense once they set in. It’s happened to me before. It’s following the heart without bringing the brain. And it’s seeing a man through such rose colored glasses that she doesn’t realize that she’s with a “low value partner’ It’s not that she’s necessarily interested in shady characters. Most adult women are not, unless they themselves are shady. But if she happens to develop strong feelings for a shady character, then previously held standards go out the window. Double that feeling if she hasn’t gotten a lot of love from her family of origin and has issues with shame. The guy could be an ugly couch potato who never bathes and does drugs all the time who hasn’t had a job in 10 years, and the woman will just accept it (or try to manipulate him into changing) because of how she feels. The trick is not to even give shady characters the time of day. The heart isn’t picky. It’ll just set itself on one of the guys in the social circle. And once that happens, it’s going to be hard to detach because the feelings are very strong. I think men underestimate the strength of those feelings… and how little they have to do with a man’s objective qualities. So, the best way to be a picky woman is to not interact that much with shady guys. You have to be picky before feelings have the opportunity to set in. That’s what wisened women do.

It’s not true though. Women honestly aren’t picky enough. So many women are with awful guys. The bar is really on the ground, Most men who think women are picky are probably just not that social and haven’t had that much experience. We are more selective than men and we don’t get easily impressed by random guys approaching. But women are often picky as it comes to feelings but not picky as it comes to the quality of the man. It’s unfortunately quite common that as long as a woman has feelings for a guy, she’ll bend over backwards to excuse all his flaws and shortcomings and throw standards out the window. I’ve seen great women jump through hoops to hold onto total deadbeats and jerks. And that’s because women are selective, but once she selects it goes really deep. But she’s not selecting on some meritocratic basis. It’s all about feelings. So if she has no strong feelings for a guy, she’s going to be pretty neutral about him. This might be where the illusion of pickiness comes from. Most women won’t be interested in a given man. She’s not like a guy who is interested in women in general. The prospect of men being interested in her is pretty boring. But once she likes a guy (which comes about for no logical or meritocratic value) a sizable minority of women forget all about their standards. So, women generally are not picky at all… though they are more selective in that they will usually only be interested in one or a few guys at a time.

You’re welcome ?

My purpose for posting it is that men who are falling into this trap (and I’ve seen many on this forum) will recognize it as a trap and liberate themselves from this victim’s narrative that will never be satisfying. The solution is for men to let go of false old-school prescriptions around Masculinity and actually find the deep Masculine within. But first, the necessity it for men to recognize that their worth as a person isn’t contingent on how close they are to Masculine prescriptions… and it isn’t contingent upon what women think of them.

I’ve seen plenty of posts on here before about this… as early as a few days ago. There are LOTS of guys who see women as being to blame for their feelings of inadequacy… and their difficulties/insecurities about masculinity and dating. ‘It’s because women are too picky.’ ‘It’s because of Feminist brainwashing.’ ‘It’s because women are too loose.’ ’It’s because women aren’t Feminine anymore.’ Etc.

Couldn’t have said it better myself ?

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That’s true of the hero as an archetype. But human beings are not archetypes. They are only informed by them. The archetype of the hero can only be integrated internally. It does not rely on the external to validate it.

Yes, it’s definitely not something that can be put on from the outside. Masculinity is real. But it has nothing to do with these Fetishized notions of the Masculine and Feminine.

No, it says the IDEA of Masculinity is constructed in relation to a Fetishized and unrealistic ideal of Femininity. And so it creates an illusion in many men that women are responsible for the man’s Masculinity. Thus, when a man feels like he isn’t measuring up to the IDEA of Masculinity, he blames women for deviating from the Fetishized unrealistic IDEA of the Feminine.

Yep. They have to take responsibility for their own insecurities without scapegoating and blaming women for their own issues. The call is coming from inside the house. It’s always so weird when guys on here want women to take responsibility for their insecurities. And are like… women need to change. It’s always so random to have these things projected onto you because.

Yes definitely. And what’s funny is that the male victim narrative runs completely counter to the Masculine ideals that they claim to want to embody.

Do you really think that I’m posting a video that ACTUALLY blames women for the masculinity crisis? You should know by now by my posts that I’m an uber SJW Feminist wokescold. ? It’s a video about how men get convinced by online influencers that women are to blame for the ‘masculinity crisis’ by not fitting into a fetishized ideal of Femininity that’s supposed to validate that fetishized ideal of Masculinity. And you find a lot of those same male victimhood narratives that state ‘women are destroying masculinity’ being regurgitated on here by some of the posters. So I thought this could be a good video to reduce victim’s mentality and the scapegoating of women in some of the posters here.

I am a relatively introverted person who prefers my partners to be relatively introverted as well. But if a man is a total lone wolf then this is a bit of a red flag as well. I usually think of lone wolf guys as lacking in social acuity or having issues with avoidance. So, I don’t have any romanticization of the lone wolf. It’s not the type of guy I want in my life because he doesn’t seem like he’s got it together because he doesn’t have a social support system and he’s not community oriented. But in terms of mindset, typically guys who are into pick up are either nerdy guys who have very little experience with women who are trying to get experience with women. OR they are avoidant players who are always trying to add to their body count. And I’m not interested in men from either of those groups because I prefer men with an equivalent level of relationship experience to my own. And I’m definitely not keen on being a part of some random guy’s rotation. Neither of those are interesting to me.

Yeah, it’s pretty annoying in day-game situations.

If a guy randomly spots a girl he’s interested in at a relatively social event and sparks up a regular conversation, it’s one thing. But if he has a practice of doing pick up all the time, everywhere he goes, then it suggests totally different things about where he is in his mindset and his life. And that’s a bit of a red flag. But I’m not saying I should be special in the pick up guy’s eyes. That’s to look at things through a pick up frame. Of course a pick up guy is playing a numbers game and won’t view any particular target as special… in the same way that a perfume salesperson at the mall won’t be viewing any particular target as special. It’s just the nature of marketing. But my point is that I don’t enjoy being marketed to. It’s spammy, low quality, low investment attention. So, if I’m not at least somewhat compelling to him as a particular woman, it’s boring to me. And it’s also a much more dangerous way to meet men because you haven’t witnessed him in different social contexts over time. And even more dangerous than the average man with PUAs because many of them have been indoctrinated into misogynistic viewpoints by various influencers. The best way to meet men is to develop a robust and broad social circle of about 150 like-minded guys and girls who are at various levels of friendship and acquaintanceship. And you do this through congregation in places of interest like art walks, book clubs, yoga class, etc. And this gives you the opportunity to get to know who a guy is and to develop feelings for him organically. And as long as a woman has this, I don’t see why a woman would ever go for some pick up guy.

I wouldn’t do that. I’d still be nice if I’ve decided to talk to him… but I’d be more sardonic and cheeky with some slight eye rolling. That is, if I felt he was a relatively safe guy. But she might have given you the lovey dovey look until she confirmed that you are a pick-up guy. From a woman’s perspective, it’s a bit of a red flag if a guy is into day game pick-up as a regular practice. It takes the fun out of it because you know the guy is doing this like 20x per day. It’s a bit like getting a letter in the mail with a handwritten address, and you’re like “Ooh! Someone wrote ME a letter.” And then you open it and realize that it’s junk mail advertisement. You were intrigued before. But then it takes the personal element out of it because you realize that you’re just part of a numbers game.

Why assume before you watch? But yes… I posted it because I agree with many points in the video.

You’re so wrapped up in ‘anti-victim’s mentality’ mentality that you put the onus of blame more on the victim than on the perpetrator. When a person pendulum swings themselves into ‘anti-victim’s mentality’ mentality a person becomes cold and callous to the suffering of themselves and others. And it’s a very self-hating mentality because they will often downplay their suffering and keep their pain to themselves. And they can judge themselves harshly and feel shame for exhibiting any sign of weakness. And it makes them quite fragile for this reason. Also, I used to dress quite a bit like Manson and express dark themes in my art. And it was ignorant when people assumed that type of thing about me. And Alice Cooper never had this kind of track record despite being the OG shock rocker. And I’ve known plenty of gothy folks. And most of them are kinder than the average person. So, it wasn’t ignorant of them to assume that Manson wasn’t a threat to them. That’s just a basic assumption if you realize that someone’s attire doesn’t determine their character. But Manson probably learned that he could portray his wolf in wolves’ clothing as being a sheep in wolves’ clothing. And this could disarm a lot of people into believing or wanting to believe that his stage persona is only a stage persona.

This just sounds like a way to victim blame… spiritual bypassing style.

You’re coming off a bit judgmental in your post. Do you think you’re better than other people because you choose to forego using models to talk about things? Spiral dynamics is just another model to use to communicate about things…. just like MBTI is… just like Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs is… just like OCEAN is. And models are very effective for understanding and communication because they provide clarity about complex phenomena by delineating categories with firm definitions. That’s why they are constructed in the first place… to make complex phenomena comprehensible to the human intellect. So don’t be too surprised when a lot of people on this forum use SD as a framework to communicate the ideas that they’re trying to get across. And you seem to be quite offended by my take on Manson. And I’m honestly not sure why. I still enjoy a lot of his music. And it was an important facet of my life precisely because of his Red romanticization. But after a few years, I could recognize him as someone who got way too wrapped up in his stage persona.