SOUL

There is no paradox in that because emotions are just stimuli which can motivate us to behave and they don't have anything positive or negative about them other than what we give. The way I found effective to manage emotions is to view them from the perspective of helping, hindering or having no effect in me for what I seek to accomplish. This addresses two things that tend to manifest in self conscious, judgment and dualism, first it's far enough removed from moralistic judgment and it also gives 3 different types of influences that an emotions can have in us. People usually just see only two because of the tendency of the mind to form a duality in concept. How emotions move in us to motivate behavior doesn't have to be unconscious conditioned response, this is what awakening and enlightenment does for us, it's illuminates in us what is darkened so we won't have to be enslaved to it..

@Joseph Maynor Well, actually, if stripping concept from reality is a key to enlightenment then even the concept of stripping concept from reality as a key to enlightenment needs to be stripped.... or it isn't. This is why I try not to apply conditions to the unconditional or limit the infinite...so I just let it be and be at peace with what it is.

Stripping concept from reality being a key to enlightenment is a concept that would need to be stripped from reality as a key to enlightenment then.... jussayin

Meditation, consciousness, enlightenment and spirituality are a very subjective experience so I'm not sure who or what can be the arbiter of what is valuable or legitimate. Does this just become another place where group think rules as doctrine and the infinite divergence of personal expression gets shut out? What makes absolute sense to one may be non sense to another so majority accepted ideas and concepts doesn't make for validity. I agree there has been some thread flooding and personal attacking going on but by internet standards it's tame so I hope it's only the most egregious examples of it that get handled and it doesn't end this venue to explore these topics and our experience of them.

Then cease arguing about concepts.... how do you like them apples?

@Joseph Maynor Did I quote or tag you in my comment? I guess you must think it applies to you, this is something you may examine more closely in your self, especially since you just challenged my comment.

The self conscious is a natural expression in consciousness of the manifest that has effects in the body which urges to sustain itself and we as sentient beings happen to be aware of our self conscious. Some people at the behest of their religion or belief will call it evil or sin or a disease or any other number of negative characterizations in an attempt to justify their ideas of it and/or manipulate people into following them and their beliefs.

Using words and concepts to challenge other's words and concepts while denying attachment to them.... a classic blind spot in one's awareness.

It isn't a race and there is nobody to beat, not even your own self, so the comparison of Usain Bolt may not be so apropos to it. Enlightenment is just a word, it's used to refer to the process of awakening of what is asleep in us and an illumination of the darkened in our consciousness. It isn't some achievement to be gained or a destination that can arrived at, it's an ongoing process that is like the waxing and waning of the moon or the ebb and flow of the tides.

Yes, it can.

Sleepy one....awaken.

Hmmmmm... calling someone's genuinely expressed and exercised spirituality "bullshit" isn't insulting?

@Fidelio, The answer you sought from me was very eloquently and effectively elaborated by @Emerald.

I didn't have to make any assumptions, you provided the evidence of it yourself with your own words. Is this lack of self awareness you have one of the eight folds? I'm just wondering...

Why are you so angry? Also why are you so bitter and dismissive of others because their way doesn't mirror yours? What in your spirituality brings you to call other people's way of expressing their spirituality as "bullshit"? If this is the type of behavior and attitude towards others the eight-fold path produces in someone who claims to have it's teachings as second nature to them I'm not sure it's something that benefits anyone.

@Fidelio I was quoting the words you used, that's an appropriate use of them but thank you for your concern about my grammar. I apologize if it made it so difficult to answer me. Can you find it in you to answer the question? What is this everything that is almost second nature to you? I'm genuinely interested to hear your answer.

@Fidelio What is this "everything" that is "second nature"?.... "almost" that is....

@Fidelio So when do you plan to start this "refined, tried and true" method yourself?

You asked what's the difference and I replied in a way to clarify what some of the facets of consciousness are and what people may be referring to with those words. I didn't say anything about theory or that anything is ultimately pointless so not sure how I can reply to those.

Those are just labels that people use to describe certain aspects of our consciousness but if you allow me for a moment to set them aside to explore some of the various aspects it may help bring some clarity. There are different parts of our brain that contribute to our conscious thought processes, the oldest has been called the lizard brain which provides our primitive instinctual urges and responses like the flight, fight and freeze response to a threat. Then there is the younger part of the brain that is responsible for our social and emotional bonding and responses which could be called the mammal brain. Then there is the youngest part of the brain that is responsible for what we call our rational mind. Now these different parts don't operate in isolation or independently, they are an integrated system that produce all of the different urges, instincts, thoughts, feelings, conditioning and everything else that creates our experience and perception. Even our attachment to an identity is an accumulation of input from different parts to result in us identifying with our self. Much of this is involuntary actions that happen even to the point of us not being aware of some of it happening. Our identifying is also involuntary, it's a natural expression of natural processes. It seems like most people use monkey mind to refer to the way the brain works with the different parts together doing what they do and the resulting expression in our mind. While it appears they use ego for the identifying facet of the brain processes that produces the expression of identity. So what people are reffing to with those two labels are really very much intertwined and I don't see any real value in seeking out specific defining parameters to fit them into separately because they are expressions of a whole that each individual may perceive differently.

@S33K3R Part of the monkey mind conditioning is being fixated on right and wrong(accurate and inaccurate) which empowers that belief system so if we are seeking to change the habituation of this mechanical creature we can do it by offering it alternatives to that primitive dichotomy paradigm. Plus even the most inaccurate beliefs can produce powerful effects for working in one's life so ultimately it's just using a mechanism of the monkey mind to heal it self. It's freeing the mind by transcending the ideology of the concept in working with the methods of the mind stripped of identity justification and anything that may give a foothold for the ego to use it to justify.

Whether beliefs are accurate or not isn't the most effective way of viewing their value, what I prefer to view them as and found it effective is if they are contributing to our well being or are detracting from it. Which is really just an extension of do they aid in us being present in the moment or do they distract from our presence. Other than that your response is succinct. @Joseph Maynor Yes! It will. Monkey mind see monkey mind do, What we put into the mind will eventually come out of it so we feed the mind what we seek it to eventually reflect in us.

It's a simple conscious axiom of that my fulfillment in life is not dependent on or measured with what appears in the manifest.

Well, just in resistance to the mind and what it does, even in trying to still it, or cease desire. It's like asking us to stop the flow of the infinite source of being in us. Just let it be. I understand why you would interpret my words that way and I agree on some level of the temporal moment things are in a state of flux with us experiencing waxing and waning of the manifest so who even really knows if we 'have' anything anyway but in the mind we can realize our fulfillment every step of the way in the moment. It's not about pretending anything although once one has the experience of being fulfilled in consciousness the cycle of desire and satiation of the mind can be recognized for what it is. The 'thing' we supposedly need and don't have won't effect how contented we are so when monkey mind ego flashes in the mind of me wanting I am experoience being fulfilled regardless. Or something.....

@S33K3R I prefer not to form an absolute concept conclusion about things and I myself have in the past thought of the ego as being solely in the past and future until from sustained observation I realized there is a significant emphasis on the present in it's natural function. Even though the ego uses the past to predict a future for us to be prepared for it I became intimately aware of how present it needs to be to deliver the information in all the multidimensional perceptional qualities of a virtual reality to our mind that it does.