SOUL

Doubling down on a dogmatic belief doesn't make it valid.... it's just a belief. It's one that is built on the premise there is something wrong with us for just being us, that our naturally occurring human existence itself is diseased and this is just manipulating others with the idea that your dogmatic beliefs can save us from it. Here's an alternative perspective you may consider, it's based in actual human experience for it's premise. We are born an awake being, simply aware with virtually no ego and very little self since we...well, are just born. Then as we grow over a number of years our self conscious is constructed by our mind as a naturally occurring mechanism and that includes as part of it an ego. So whether the ego/self is healthy or unhealthy depends on what was put into it while it is being constructed by the mind and continually goes through changes as more and more experience happens. It can also be intentionally transformed by us through inner work. It definitely could be said that most if not virtually all common conditioning that happens induces a sort of zombie mind even before we have fully matured. Although to conflate the two, the naturally occurring mechanism in our mind and what gets put into that mind which is used to construct the ego/self, is itself an unaware perspective. It would be like calling a car broken and blaming it for the actions of a bad driver. A dog isn't diseased for just being a dog and a human isn't diseased for just being human. It may be a popular view with many "eastern" spiritualists to believe as you do but popularity doesn't validate it either. Ironically, this "diseased" concept is just some unhealthy conditioning you are attempting to project onto others in hopes they will believe it, too and that just bolsters your own ego sense of justification in believing it yourself. Yes, I do see the confusion that eastern spirituality creates in the people who believe it.

Yes, it's just a fad that's been going on for thousands of years....and his opinion of it is a fart in a tornado.

This type of thinking reminds me of the western religious concept that we are born sinful and is just as much the manipulative dogmatic belief. Your telling someone to leave the forum if they have a differing view because it only belongs to the religious rhetoric that you embrace? Wow, that's pretty egoic.

Whatever you want to call the phenomena it doesn't matter to me but I am living proof that through the present moment our life experience can transform the whole self....Yes, ego included because all of it is the product of experience. It's as simple as the primitive axiom of monkey see monkey do but a little more complicated in how we express it.

There is only one condition of unconditional happiness, it's being happy. The mechanism to creating fulfillment in my experience is using the present moment to sow seeds of a lasting sense of fulfillment through finding appreciation in life as it unfolds.

Our ego feeds on our experience for it's identity so as we fill our life experience with healthy patterns and perspectives the ego reflects that.

Yes, it does exist even if it may exist as an ever changing temporal illusion.

I was insulting? Did that idea come from the non thinking you do all the time? Yes, it definitely would be a belief to think one doesn't think. I'm at peace with what is.

It's amazing how much posting you do for someone who is non thinking all the time.

The void is non existence, it's only feature it has is the absence of everything so we cannot have it, hold it, feel it, be it, see it, visit it or anything with it because it is non existent. The only thing we can do is be aware of the absolute nature of non existence and contemplate the implications of that in our consciousness. Thoughts are naturally occurring involuntary mechanisms that are integral to the survival of us as a biological organism. Stopping our thoughts is like trying to stop the heart beating or the lungs from breathing, it's an impossibility. Although through our awareness using meditative methods we can slow the breathing and heart rate so in the same way we can slow the thoughts. Not only in the pace and frequency of them but we can cultivate the intensity, subject matter and context of them as well as how attached we are and identified with them we are. Preaching no thoughts in the void though makes for seductive esoteric and mystical framed rhetoric.

Learn how to watch the mind thinking without being the one thinking it........and breathe.

Having a mindset of loving acceptance can surely be a healing influence on the psyche so I wouldn't suggest it has no value. In fact, for some people this is the exact type of approach that creates the inner life that benefits them most.

I prefer an impartial observation of thoughts or feelings that may stir especially of those I am not seeking to endorse but if a loving acceptance is working for you that is all that really matters.

Buddhism definitely has dogma and those dogmas have been adopted by many spiritualists since the 60s. Although to me it's the personal dogmas that are the ones we should be wary of forming in our mindset. It's very easy to fall under the spell of our own experience and hold up something that happened in the past as an idol to worship. We will view it as a truth in which we will project on to others or everyone as a universal truth so is our own dogmatic paradigm. Success is just accomplishing a goal we have set for ourselves so if your goal is to be part of a community like that, if you do it. you are a success. It appears you may still be believing the dogmatic idea, ironically, of what success is as it is attributed by others or society.

On the contrary, it sounds like they have had an awakening to the 'just being' of presence, of just being in the moment, and they don't really know how to interpret the experience yet. They recognize the seemingly paradoxical nature of them coexisting in spirituality but currently cannot comprehend the resolution of it in their mind. At least they realize the distinct experience in their consciousness of the joy and fulfillment that comes with being present. If you had the slightest bit of the same joy and fulfillment in your own life you likely wouldn't have been so critical while offering no solutions. .....but that's just my impression, you may view it differently.

@Nahm It's rarely productive confronting dogmatic ideas and especially on the internet people won't concede anything. I can see the direction this discussion is going and to be aware of the snare. I suspect you see it as well but just wanted to mention it, peace.

The more I hear what people say about being "enlightened" the less I understand what people mean when they say enlightened.

It's very common for family to be strong triggers since we have such deep emotional entanglements with them and they typically have a considerable role in crafting the inner dialog going on in our head, too. So instead of speak on the obvious that you likely already know I will instead ask about the thoughts and feelings going on once triggered, if you can become aware of them through observation you can do some inner work to resolve those. Then when they go tromping all on your triggers there will be no energy behind them and it will be easier to shrug it off. You are well aware that you aren't going to fix them and apparently also aware that they aren't impressed by your development or knowledge, it probably is no value to them since you say they are asleep and very few of the slumbering souls do value what we gain from awakening. This means taking the sting out of the triggers through inner work will be the most effective way to gain any peace, Becoming aware of exactly what it is that is being triggered in you as far as feelings, thoughts, imagery and inner dialog is the way to do this. I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you didn't already know so just chalk this up to a friendly reminder....

All this is revealing in you is the difference between the happiness that comes from the ego in our consciousness and the fulfillment that comes from the awareness in our consciousness. The ego based happiness is dependent on stuff going our way, it's temporary and the ego is always looking for it's next fix by not being satisfied with what it's already got. The awareness based fulfillment is not dependent on the stuff in life, it transcends the temporary and can be felt regardless of whether things go our way. So we can feel fulfilled in life even when stuff doesn't go our way because through awareness we can be fulfilled with just being.... not being something or anything, just in being. If we get our fulfillment through awareness then everything we do as far as business success, fitness, relationships or any other goal we will have is enriched because our contentment is in being and not dependent on circumstances going our way.

Oh look, another person that has decided to tell me I don't have free will but I choose not to believe them.

@Arkandeus While I can appreciate the passion you have for your spiritual expression but that response was putting more spin on top of the already spun.

The most fulfilling success we can have is to be at peace with reality as it unfolds in the present moment with each moment we can be present in it.

I have read on this forum that someone who is 'enlightened' can rape children and it's not 'evil' because that is a construct of the mind. I have also read that even though someone can genuinely love and care for others, if they are unawakened it's just monkey mind conditioning. My view on it is in attributing an identity of and label on something we actually create it as such for ourselves even if there is not really a distinction inherent of it according to what we call and identify it as.

*Inserts obligatory 'is this thread stupid for talking about people' question.*

There is no paradox in that because emotions are just stimuli which can motivate us to behave and they don't have anything positive or negative about them other than what we give. The way I found effective to manage emotions is to view them from the perspective of helping, hindering or having no effect in me for what I seek to accomplish. This addresses two things that tend to manifest in self conscious, judgment and dualism, first it's far enough removed from moralistic judgment and it also gives 3 different types of influences that an emotions can have in us. People usually just see only two because of the tendency of the mind to form a duality in concept. How emotions move in us to motivate behavior doesn't have to be unconscious conditioned response, this is what awakening and enlightenment does for us, it's illuminates in us what is darkened so we won't have to be enslaved to it..