SOUL

Continuing to add attributes to the straw man doesn't change what a "self" is actually defined as. "a person's essential being that distinguishes them from others, especially considered as the object of introspection or reflexive action" That is what the self is so direct your evidence towards what the self is defined as, not in straw 'self' building.

So when were you going to provide actual evidence that the self doesn't exist? Just so you have an understanding what the self is by definition and not the interpretation straw man you think you can defeat. Let's see you prove that self exists again by replying in defense of ........

Ah yes, your true nature comes out, glad to see you show your genuine intentions This is how you started the thread: It exists and you have acknowledged it exists by saying it is a process because, yes, a process exists. Especially so when it is a biological process that is performed involuntarily as a function of the body. You keep proving the self exists with every reply Explain with details about why you and the people you parrot believe this biological process "doesn't actually exist".

So a process doesn't exist? You mean like the scientific method is a process of discovery doesn't exist? Ok, you want to now say it's not a "thing" but a "process" and there are definite characteristics that define what the process of the scientific method of discovery is which make it what it is even if it's not a thing but a process. The same thing... er... process of showing how the self exists as a method of creating identity that successfully sustains itself as a biological being in the world. Wow, you are doing a pretty good job of proving this Tom guy wrong. You should feel proud of your self.

You said it yourself, it's a construct to understand the world around us. That's a thing, it's constructed, it has individual characteristics and is used by us to understand the world. So, therefore, it exists. Don't you feel better about yourself now? You proved Thomas Metzinger wrong.

Why do you believe the self doesn't exist?

That is just your personal belief, you are entitled to believe it and act according to it as you see fit but it doesn't make it fact or truth for everyone. So be it.

@Heart of Space I don't really have any issues with your words or your beliefs since they aren't mine but what is apparent in them is they reflect a limiting beliefs paradigm. There's a lot of that going on with Enlightenment and in spirituality so my apologies for attempting to bring it to your awareness. So be it.

@Thanatos13 You are missing the point that the evidence you seek is something only you can supply. You're making assumptions about the state of my life and what I have been through. This isn't a pissing match about who has it worst or who overcame more. It's about whether you have the will to carry on and find your own well-being in whatever way you can regardless of the circumstances in your life. There isn't anybody that can give that to you, it's something you search within yourself for.

You are the one who has posed the conflicted query in this thread and you are offering contradictory evidence thinking it somehow supports your conclusion.... besides, it really does seem as if you still are looking for a cookie. Trees? Um..... ok

Whether it is likeable or not is of little consequence, what effect on our being present does a belief paradigm have is more significant.

It's very understandable, you have a belief paradigm of what it's not and what it's only so that there is an infinitesimal hoop you believe you need to hop through. Your own beliefs are limiting your own experience and then you are going on to tell others that their experience is like your experience. None of that makes any sense, I don't know why you do it, I encourage you to lose that mindset.

Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Atman! Is that not right? Nevermind..... Yea, now it's stuck in your head....

So it took a genius like Newton to "invent" it? Before he 'invented' it people were freely flying around all over the place because gravity didn't exist? Gawd what an ahole! If it contains everything possible in the absolute infinite, then it's all cognition, perception, perspective and potential, not the absence of them because it contains everything possible! Your limiting beliefs are why you need drugs and 1000s of hours of meditation to even get a glimpse, it takes much to overcome your mind's belief paradigm as you have created it. Awakening brings clarity of cognition, perception, perspective and is a so simple state of being that few are attentive to it but the potential of it is absolutely infinite.

@sarapr Oh geez whatheffever, this is giving me a headache... I'm done here So be it.

So you think gravity is just a "function of the human cognition"? It doesn't exist at all outside of our cognition of it? Explain how spirituality isn't also from the human perspective so not subjective.

It wasn't my intention to interpret or estimate how full you are or consider if there any contradictions, just illuminate the beliefs in your words since you believe believing any narrative about reality is not enlightenment.

Whether I agree or not, flaws or whatever it doesn't matter, those aren't my words, they are yours. So be it.

Well, apparently you aren't aware of it, limiting beliefs are hidden in plain sight.

Even thinking there is an issue, a problem with a connection or relation and that detachment is a preferable way are also belief concepts. That's the whole spinning wheel of chasing the best, the right, the most, the truth, the enlightenment. All that is 'doing' is shifting the belief to be something else to justify 'doing' of it, to gain a pattern for the mind to build a paradigm around, for the ego to identify with. As soon as that wheel has been left unspun in us that impetus has been disenfranchised in our being, it has no power of force to captivate our experience, it is impotent. It's an absolute peace in being.

Yes, MisterMan, the middle man or to be more apt, middle men, as there are layers of identity seeking to influence our state of being.

Do you see it?

Here is something to consider: We have a gut biome and these microorganisms are alive in us, they live in the environment of our digestive tract, they are supported by the food we eat and from the conditions that exist in our gut. These microorganisms are of many varieties and they prefer different diets of nutrients and molecules that we could potentially ingest. Some like one thing, another likes something else and the particular foods we eat provide actually influences which ones can survive and flourish in our gut. So let's say we eat alot of empty simple carbs and processed sugars but don't eat greens like broccoli and spinach. The boime that we have created in our gut feeds on sugars and that's what it needs to survive of which greens has little to none so if we don't eat the food that gives what it needs it's going to die out. These tens to hundreds of billions of microorganisms all are at the dinner table waiting for the vittles but we eat a salad and they look at the nutrients wft is this crap? They start getting 'upset' and sending out signals like we need to eat or we will die! These signals make their way up to our amygdala and in response to them it effects our mood. In addition to creating emotional impulse it also creates craving impulses and we crave a donut or candy bar. We can't think of anything else except that craving even though we are eating a salad and fill up our stomach full of the greens. We don't feel fulfilled by the food we just ate and we impulsively still want to eat more and specifically the stuff that becomes a sugary meal for the biome. I ask you.... where did the thought to eat that sugary food come from? In this light consider where does the urge to have sexual relations come from? If we stub our toe where does the "ouch that hurt" thought come from? We are a whole body being and sensations are all throughout it but yes our brain is a grand central station of sensation. Though does every 'passenger' in the station originate there? Hm......hehe.

Haha, I find so much humor in this and there are too many jokes that could be made but I will just leave it be.... thanks for the chuckle though. haha.

Your oversimplified generalization perspective aside it's interesting how you framed this, spiritual people "hate" a method of discovery and scientific people "hate" other people. I think this is something that could prompt us to examine ourselves to discover if we actually "hate" people or if we even "hate" at all. I also find it interesting to note that both the scientific method and spirituality are methods of discovery.