SOUL

Well, that's great to hear that you learn from your interactions. Although, to learn and to adopt don't mean the same thing in English, I say this because you mention that it isn't your first language. We can learn without adopting and we can adopt without learning since learning in becoming aware of something and adopting is making something our own. In light of what you said to the other poster I will agree it can be helpful to become aware of many different perspectives including the counter to what may be our own. There can be a balance that comes from acknowledging it but an equanimity is a balance without opposites, it's being balanced without using an external as a catalyst to be it. It actually is being balanced in spite of the externals even if those externals are things we have internalized. Although, if you tell me that you need to accept and adopt exactly what someone else says then you need to accept and adopt the idea I offer in that you do not have to adopt the ideas of others. Haha... I would like to point out that I did indeed learn something from our interaction, it's something that I have been contemplating for a couple years. It has been finally crystallized in the understanding that I have been using the word acceptance when I really do mean tolerance. Acceptance is really being in agreement with and accepting as valid or true, where as tolerance is a peaceable coexistence with but that doesn't necessarily agree with. So for all the times i have been saying acceptance I really meant tolerance and there is a clear distinction between them that I am aware of. Haha...

@tsuki I, too, agree that this life is an amazing gift so I prefer not to view it negatively and instead cherish every aspect of it. With Leo, this forum or anywhere you go and with anyone you cross paths in life people won't view it the same way you do so it will be a matter of acceptance and transcending the labels. Do the 'translating' to fit your own view, find what is useful and utilize it in your life because finding what works is more valuable than the way it is described. You don't have to adopt anyone else's viewpoint but there can be a lesson learned with everything we interact with.

Yes, I do. What is also clear is that the incessant 'killing off' of self, ego, beliefs, ideas, mind, thoughts and existence by people causes just as much suffering as those things they believe they are freeing themselves from by trying to wipe it away. Let it be.

So much of what is communicated and circulated as 'enlightenment' is wrapped up in a story based on conceptualizations including the whole "life is a dream" one. I have spoken often on here to the simplicity of being, the egoic mind doesn't want to 'believe' it can be that simple because there is nothing to do about it, nothing to cling to. What Adyashanti says in that video can be appreciated although in light of the word 'belief' being defined as 'accepting something is true or exists' it reveals his own perceptions as beliefs. Even though he's saying beliefs are misperceptions of reality he's also misperceiving beliefs relationship with reality yet it doesn't cause him suffering. Why is that? He isn't using his beliefs to sustain his peace so the misperceptions he does have don't interfere with it and cause suffering. The things he 'accepts as true or exists', his 'beliefs' of what is 'truth', though they may be misperceptions are not the basis of his peace, it's on the simplicity of being. Peace that is in simply being cannot be disturbed by beliefs. Even if every one of our beliefs are absolutely false about reality but our peace, joy and fulfillment is in being then that 'wrongness' has no power to steal it from us. Our peace is in being and not dependent on perceiving truth or reality as it is, it's simply being at peace. Garsh, I must seem like a jerk messing with Adyashanti's words like that, I love the guy, he's so authentically at peace.

Haha, so hilarious. I was just trying to point to how much of a challenge it is to speak on spirituality and being, that's all but you appear to take any interaction between us personally. You can't seem to let go of a previous conversation, maybe you can examine your self to discover why. Although since you brought it up.... "Teaching non-duality" is dualism....oh the irony. "Down to the level of the seeker".... so it's "down", huh? I thought there were no levels...hmmm Haha.

Since the absolute is infinite, the "what works better, what works and what may work and what doesn't work at all" is as diverse as their are individuals that are being. There is no universal, one size fits all "what works better, what works and what may work and what doesn't work at all". It's unfathomable how individualized each of our experience of being really is. I cannot tell you what works for you and you cannot tell me what works for me, We can speculate, we can investigate, we can communicate, we can hypothesize, we can analyze, we can generalize but we cannot realize what "works" for another. This is the ultimate challenge in 'spirituality' and the state of being.

Nah, I don't need to know...I don't want to know, I'd rather be than know, being transcends knowing.

Who's asking?

The questions, the answers to the questions, the explanations of the answers to the questions, descriptions about the explanations of the answers to the questions, understanding the descriptions about the explanations of the answers to the questions, the reasons for understanding the descriptions about the explanations of the answers to the questions, knowing the reasons for understanding the descriptions about the explanations of the answers to the questions. Or... just be. It isn't really about not asking the question, it's about not desiring the answers. There is genuine peace in just being.... an unquestionable ontology.

It's just observation, I be as I am and you be whatever you will be, too.

Then why did ya ask?

Whatever it be.

This is why I'm saying we create our spirituality in the way that we view it. The ego may tell us we're trapped and it only becomes a trap if we agree with it. It is in our awareness of it that we aren't ensnared by the ego's conceptualizations and we can create the liberation from that. I recognize you aware this as well so some more choir preaching I guess haha.

Actually, you didn't say anything about traps, all you talked about was unverifiable and checkmarked as true, whatever checkmarked means. Although, I don't view any physical or psychological aspects of my life as a trap and no amount of other people talking about how they view it as a trap makes it one for me because I don't agree with that perspective. Those things may be challenges for me to be at peace and enjoy life but to be honest I didn't really hear them called traps until I got on this forum so maybe you should consider that before you endorse any groupthink concepts.

You are confusing spiritual life with physical life, I understand your confusion, it's common. I cannot prove my joy and peace to you, so it isn't "true"?

Thanks, I appreciate the positive feedback. Your reply was so quick it captured me in an edit.... can you find the word difference? Haha....

@Shanmugam There is no actual determined 'form' to the absolute so whatever we ascribe to it is of our own conception, it is unmanifest potential to be everything and anything while also being the manifest fulfillment of everything and anything so we can find any and every characteristic in it. So in our spirituality if one says there is a trap or pitfall in the path, we create it for our self, if we say there "is" and "isn't" in the work, we create it for our self and if we create a line of separation between anything, we create it for our self, not create it for anyone else, just for our self. Consider this when you conceive of and speak about your spiritual life, by these you are creating your own spiritual life.

People are easily lured in by produced and packaged emotionally triggering mystical sounding enlightenment themed 'stories' conceived and contrived for profit and personal gain to indulge the primitive vices. So be it.

@Shanmugam Did you really just compare Trump to Buddha to 'prove' something? That's hilarious! Haha I cannot speak for anyone else that questioned the obvious dualism in what you are 'teaching' but I am well aware of what you are talking about and why you view it that way. Although, it's not terminology that is being questioned, it's the inability to recognize any other experience other than your own as being valid. The real heart of this discussion is about your insistence that there is a binary type of on-off or is-isn't nature to enlightenment without any degrees or levels to the process of awakening. There is no line of separation to cross that Trump turns into Buddha with awakening, enlightenment transcends all absolutely and infinitely but it is our awakening to it that is the change, 'enlightenment' is constant. This change for some may appear like a light bulb turning on starting in a very dark place before and in an instant the change is so extreme the awakening is an intense realization so the experience of that awakening is dramatic. In others the awakening is like lighting a single candle first in one spot, then in another candle in another spot and keep lighting candles all around consciousness that eventually the whole consciousness is illuminated so the experience of awakening is gradual. Are there thresholds of awakening that certain realizations can become manifest in our consciousness? Absolutely. Are there thresholds of awakening that self suffering dissipates so peace/bliss permeates our being? Absolutely. Whether it happens dramatically or gradually there is no line of separation drawn between enlightenment and our consciousness. The only line that would be drawn is in our mind and this is what prevents us from realizing the awakening of enlightenment.

After many years of not discussing my own ongoing experience and evolution in awakening I eventually chose to engage in discussions because I see other people self suffering and they deserve healing, we all do. I don't really wish to talk about my 'story' as much as I am interested in empowering each individual personal experience in their own expression of it as it is to allow the healing to happen for them. So when there are people asserting 'what is' or 'is not' in a 'universal' and 'for everyone' way I know that this can bring even more self suffering to others because it doesn't match their own experience and they will doubt themselves. I know this because I experienced it first hand but fortunately I go to the source for my revelation not other people so I always found healing for this suffering. Though, not everyone is this fortunate, they seek guidance in others and their own personal experience is dismissed. This is why I question the authoritative stances that are taken and I embrace the diversity of expression in the experiences of individuals. The healing that comes in the inner lives of those that are suffering is more important than me telling my 'story' or about my 'ideas'. Awakening happens when people realize their own personal truth as they experience it, the healing that comes from this resolution transcends 'ideology' and is genuine liberation, it's absolute inner peace. I hope that those who have experiences which don't mirror the ones of those who declare that this is the way it is or is not will be encouraged by me standing true to individual personal experience. There is no truth in capitulating in conformity to 'enlightenment' group think because someone else claims 'absolute truth'. The healing for our own self suffering is our 'truth', it's as individual as each one of us are and we experience it by awakening our awareness to the absolute infinite source in us.

Well, for one thing, watch that you don't chop your foot, it's a foot in unity but it still hurts.

That experience is so fulfilling and this is the first time sharing it but it's just a story.

@Shanmugam Whatever you 'say' brother, haha

It is binary because you make it that way. This has been what I have been explaining again and again, you belie... er.... "know" is it binary so it is binary for you in your experience. Not me... not anyone else, for you. If someone else, anyone else belie... er "knows" it for themselves then it is for them in their experience but not for me in mine or anyone else who doesn't have that experience. So if you are still teaching "binary enlightenment", and binary is duality, I have to ask......are you teaching this "enlightenment" teaching from separation? According to your own words if you have the experience of enlightenment that duality is broken forever. So you are still teaching a duality/binary enlightenment..... not my words... your words.... not my belief, it's yours.... not my experience, yours... I don't "know" it, you do. I'm not saying you are "wrong", I'm saying you are "right" for your own experience since you create it that way. It's not really there, it's an illusion, but as you said in "enlightenment is breaking the duality forever" and that's because it wasn't ever to begin with.

Well, that is so gracious of you, I appreciate the endorsement of an authority on "enlightenment" such as you. I came in suddenly, huh? How does someone suddenly post a question? Is there an 'unsudden' way to post a question on a forum? Should I have warned you in a separate reply first that I was going to ask a question so it wouldn't be unexpected? The purpose of the question is to get an answer about if someone doesn't mirror what you say about it would you conclude they are "not enlightened" since that is in the title of your thread and the message of the post. You have quite an extensive criteria with "enlightenment" and "absolute infinite" that you write about for someone being "enlightened" or "not", so what is puzzling about the question on it? I have only been examining words and the ideas they represent in our conversations but if you weren't identifying with your words and ideas so strongly you wouldn't see a "problem" with me discussing it with you, there would be no conflict in you about it and you surely wouldn't react to it like this: So be it.