SOUL

That's brilliant....and you just sneezed this wisdom all over us. Haha

It appears you don't know what the word esoteric means. I have been speaking about simple things for anyone, not things designed to be understood by a select few. Yes, that is funny.

Yep, that sounds about right.

Ok, sure.

Is there anything but the present state of consciousness? Is there anything but the present being? It seems you cannot imagine the things I have seen and likely why you are having such trouble accepting the paradox I present I will relax, I always do if I'm not already lax. Will you? Undoubtedly when we are asleep viewing through the veil of the conditioned mind everything is done out of an existential yearning. Even after being on the path in awakening still the ego's desire to justify itself through a duality mindset of knowing "truth" might lead one to trust that a personal revelation in experience is a universal one. So when that insight is challenged it can evoke a reaction. It has been quite awhile since I have tasted that yearning which now is quenched so that it doesn't even seem like it ever was a real impetus to motivate my being. Although, the ego does continue to cling to experience for self survival because life's tasks need to be attended to but the pain of self suffering evaporated since in awareness I cease attachment to the self identity. I presently do not desire to not suffer so I don't reflexively assume others do unless they reveal in deed or word that they may be desiring not to suffer. It may be true that we at first desire to not suffer but the source of self suffering is that existential yearning that manifests in desire and the absence of that yearning is liberation. We both know we both know this so let's not pretend the other doesn't, agreed? Peace.

It's accepting them for what they are, the mind trap is trying to resist what is. You reading desire into that phrase is a reflection of your experience and perception, not mine. Although, it seems I've offended you by not accepting your 'truth' as mine own, my apologies, need a hug?

That's humorous you say I'm overthinking it for stating things are what they are, it would seem that's more indicative of underthinking it. Then you insert the word "desire" to criticize for that word that I didn't use. This verbal slight of hand is obvious but pardon me for pointing it out if you hadn't noticed it. Maybe the insertion of the word "desire" reflects your own experience of it. You may want to contemplate that. Absolute has the condition of being absolute....really really absolute, if it wasn't absolute it wouldn't be it. It is what it is whether our "mind perceives" it or not and whether we accept what it is or not. Freedom is free, if it was constrained or bound to something other than being free it wouldn't be freedom. For freedom to be what it is freedom is that condition of being free. Again this has nothing to do whether the "mind perceives" freedom as free or not and whether we accept it as free or not. It may appear paradoxical that absolute freedom is characterized by the condition of what it is but if it wasn't that it would be relative restriction. Haven't you yourself spoken about how the absolute isn't logical? There it is.

Upon further contemplation I was illuminated to the reality that "Absolute peace and Freedom" is conditional and is dependent on circumstances...... it's absolute, it's peace and it's free, without it being those conditions and circumstances it isn't that at all. Though we may live in a relative, conditioned and disharmonious world if we are to be liberated from self suffering then cessation of self suffering is a condition and circumstance of our inner life. Without it being that... it isn't it. Things are what they are and it takes us accepting them as they are for it to be realized as such for us. Hah

When I went on my hero's journey to ride the Ox that was tattooed on it's butt! Amazing!

Another trip down the mystical rabbit hole..... It is but it isn't! It's understanding that can't be comprehended! Everything and nothing! Spiraling stages of mental masturbation chasing the Ox's butt hoping to get a glimpse. I'm a fulfilled and at peace with liberation so leave the esoteric knowledge to others. Anyone who is reading this and wondering if they need any of that stuff to cease suffering I can genuinely say from my own experience, no, it's not needed. Simple awareness of being in the present moment, anything more than that is the maze of maya and is distraction.

I've transcended the desire to see 'stages' and am pellucid. Hehe To call the absence of dualism non-duality implies there is a duality and actually sets up another duality between these two perceived states that isn't really reflective of what exists in reality. Even if there are two contrasting sides when viewing it from the universal perspective there exists those two sides and the whole, which is a third state that either of the other two don't possess individually. Then there is neither which is where the two sides aren't divided or joined as whole but is free from those distinctions. So if we are going to be counting the sides of this object so to speak there are at least four. There's one, the other, both and neither but since we are talking about an infinite object I suspect there are equal number of infinite 'sides'... and a universal unity side.... and the none of the above side....and well, you see how this is a exponential fractal existence we're dealing with, not a finite zero sum one. Remember me talking about the mistaken perception of the primitive mind seeing a duality that really isn't what it all exists as? Yea, it's hard to break that conditioning even when one tries to go 'non-dual'. Perfect! Hah

Perfect can mean without flaw, flawless but it also can mean satisfying all requirements, complete. So when someone is saying the universe/god is perfect or I am perfect, most people interpret it as the first meaning when in reality that second meaning is what it pertains to. The universe/god is complete and we can even view ourselves as 'perfect', complete and this still includes flaws. In fact, for something to be complete, satisfying all requirements and be perfect it must includes imperfection otherwise perfect doesn't exist. Flaws make the ideal of perfection complete and are required for it to exist. Quite the paradox but when viewed in this way it is perfect.

The words good and bad are useless to me, people throw them around in so many ways with one saying something is good and another saying the same thing is bad. I prefer to use the words that describes what it is, there are plenty of people who want to make moral judgment but that isn't for me to do, I will discern. Yup, it's way too convenient to just say everything doesn't exist and much more of a challenge to accept things as they are.

When some mentions the earth's climate is always changing this image gives some perspective on the natural "change" compared to the human influenced change at the bottom of it.

That's awesome, thank you, i appreciate your kindness and acceptance. I'd love to say it is about age but after decades of being around spiritual communities and these types I can say it really doesn't matter the age. One of the common indicators of resistance I've found is in that moral dualism I touched on before. It's not a universal indicator but I've found the ones who strongly characterize their perspective as 'truth' typically are quick to characterize the perspectives that don't mirror their own as 'false' and those that hold them negatively. It's just more dualism mindset from ego identity that creates division and separation yet they don't seem to recognize it. Once one is aware of it's influence it is amazing how obvious it becomes to spot it even in ourselves... well especially in ourselves. Peace.

My apologies for what happened in this thread, it has some real insightful stuff being discussed until... well, again, my apologies.

Yep, it's clear....dudes

This thread had a great discussion going on until the 'movement dudes' took it over.

I always have work to do, chop wood, carry water, but my work has nothing to do with my peace. Liberation is realized without work but the ego may hinder liberation. That's what we are all talking about, right? Which is why I bring healthy conditioning to it, so it will agree with the liberation, not be an obstacle to it. Interesting word choice, "argue", it's reflective of your conditioning.

You are welcome to believe anything you like, even that you aren't believing this and that those beliefs are facts. Ego has you fooled into believing this conceptual paradigm to satisfy it's desire.....haha, yea that sneaky ego.

Your ego believes you "caught" something...... you did, yourself. You choose to believe that it's "unhealthy" and for you it is because you believe it to be true. You believe it to be a falsity, so it is false for you, not anyone else. It isn't "control", that's your word from your conditioning you are applying to me. I'll explain it simply for you. I behave inwardly and outwardly in a certain way, this experience becomes remembrance that the ego recalls. With enough consistent behavior in this way that becomes the identity the ego identifies with and a reflexive impulse of it so when I behave this way in the present moment the ego is in union with it, not hindering it. So I don't control the ego, it just agrees with my present moment expression. It's like learning a new skill, it's how the monkey mind gets trained, it's not rocket surgery... it's neuroscience! It's called neuro-plasticity. We can cease self induced suffering through this process.... well, if you choose to but you can do whatever you prefer. Hah

You can create any conceptual paradigm for yourself you want and believe it to be the truth, you cannot create it for anyone else. You just chose to believe the conditioning that someone else created, it still doesn't make it true for everyone.

It's always entertaining to observe this truism in action. I have no delusion that I am apart from it all, I'm aware that I am a part of it all.

There's nothing special about that conceptual paradigm they have created for themselves. Believing they are outside of the loop is the ego creating an identity where it believes it knows the truth outside of the loop, a self fulfilling loop..... sneaky ego. It's actually a very old and predictable conditioned loop.