SOUL

I'm sure he wasn't being insensitive or inconsiderate but he just may not be suited as a teacher to guide someone who has a such inherently problematic mind. The type of guidance he might need is more therapeutic in nature instead of just mystical, a blend of both approach. I don't know how much experience he has with such challenged individuals. Of course, Spira alluded to previous time the young man shared so he might have multiple interactions with him and may convey to him what I just mentioned in another session. The reason I have some insight to this is because I'm one who was blessed with a similarly problematic mind which ironically did strengthen me with my inner work along my path.

You know... I read back through the post to you and that stuck out to me as not what I was trying to say so I changed it to something more accurately reflecting my own experience just as you replied back to me with only those words.....that's so funny!!!! HAHAHAHAHAA Yup, words are funny things.

Go to sleep and SNOAR! Baha

Leo offers detailed explanations of the imaginary....his imaginary, not everyone's. It's beneficial to be aware of this.

I notice you absolute-tizing things that may not always clarify them.....but actually on an 'absolute' level terror and peace aren't the same thing, the absolute is neither terror or peace, it's absolute and doesn't have relative characteristics of either. What might be clearer to say and I concur with is that the type of peace, let's call it a transcendent peace, that endures through all type of circumstances isn't one that is dependent on favorable circumstances to exist, it's a peace that transcends the relative circumstances. One might say to ourselves if this peace isn't based on relative circumstances it isn't relative so it is absolute. Other than that is a form of dualistic thinking it isn't quite accurate in that it still is peace, peace has characteristics of peace that are relatively expressed as peace. So though I may not prefer to use your word choice in absolute-tizing as I explained why I do have agreement in the experience of the peace that transcends the relative circumstances. This should be the take away and hopefully I've emphasized this. We all 'create our own reality' but this particular word choice appears to cause quite a bit of confusion as it has in this very thread, so maybe we can create a different word choice. Something to consider. Hehe

I watched this video and Spira has some insightful things to offer yet there was some opportunity to bring some clarity to this particular person's path. He did express to him about the awareness 'behind' everything in the mind though it may have been helpful to instruct him to recognize that awareness behind in the periods where his overactive mind is embroiled in the OCD. It's great he gave him a way to use that peace of awareness in every day relations of less charged moments. That can be a powerful way to create a peace in those more conducive outer circumstances. He could have also reminded him how powerful it is to take that same approach in the highly charged inner relations with his OCD mind. That mind is trying to instigate behavior even if that behavior is confined to within his consciousness like resistance or denial of the activity which creates distress. If he wants peace in those moments that awareness behind could serve as that basis of peace. Eventually this would create a lasting inner environment of peace naturally that he previously was experiencing after his trips which would fade away.

I keep hearing the a similar theme over and over again.... 'I agree with Bernie's ideas and policy but I want to vote for someone who can win so will vote Biden'.... uh.... If everyone who agrees with Bernie voted for him, polling suggests it's a majority across all political demographics, then Bernie can win. What's so hard to understand that is how it works? Besides, Biden doesn't win against Trump, he has the same issues as Hillary did but worse in many respects and will get exposed. It doesn't really matter what Bernie says or does, the establishment has such a strong hold over the minds of people they can't think for themselves and act in their own best interest.

I'm just aware of when someone is regurgitating dogmatic understanding without having genuine awakening experience. Those who have experience don't sidestep, deflect or avoid a question, they can reply with clarity. All your descriptions cannot obscure it to one who can see with a clarity that comes genuine experience. There's not much benefit to question someone this way unless they are really awake because then it's clear to them what is being pointed to. Haha

Then why did you say that there is imaginary thought story? So imaginary thought story is an imaginary thought story.... that is no such thing. Of course, that doesn't answer the question, I didn't ask what is it, I asked what isn't it. So if it is nothing then everything isn't an imaginary thought story. Hmmmmm, you may want to get your (imaginary thought) story straight. Or do you want to actually answer it? Please proceed.

Well, "spiritual bypassing' is an imaginary thought story, too, but please explain, what do you suggest isn't an imaginary thought story?

Which bring us back to the point.... you are telling people their imaginary thought stories are nothing and your imaginary thought stories are everybody's something. This is your imaginary thought story yet you are suggesting it's an absolute truth, a universal truth for everyone and a truth for the universe. It may be your truth because you trust it to be true and empower it to be your truth through behaving in accordance with this belief but it's just your imaginary thought story. Our imagination defines the interaction with the physical world and our identity in the physical world because our perception of it is created and filtered through the imagination but the physical world itself isn't dependent on our imagination to exist...no matter how much you meditate on it, it's just how we perceive it. That is quite the complicated imaginary thought story you got there.

Another imaginary thought story......

'Absolute truth' is just another imaginary thought story to believe in.

@Identity Yea, so often I see people saying about the spiritual path one 'can't' or 'only' or 'must' and this sets up limiting beliefs for their own spiritual path but isn't universally trie or really a requirement. It's a self constructed obstacle preventing them being it presently that they need to overcome to 'attain' it. The ego loves to set up the system so there are methods, techniques and processes to 'accomplish' a 'goal'. Being at peace is something we are being, not doing and the ego isn't getting its desire to be justified in building an identify around it. When we believe what the ego has created we empower it to be our truth even if it is preventing our liberation.

It does seem as if her own beliefs are preventing her from being at peace with where she is at presently and holding her back from what she sees as a previous state of awakening. At least from your account of the discussion. So you might be accurately saying it's her limiting beliefs that are the source of this because the spiritual life is imaginary and how we envision it will effect our experience of it. It's not that something is objectively true or false with the spiritual path but if we trust it is true, which is the definition of belief, our spiritual life will behave as if it is true, we have empowered it to be our truth.

@electroBeam You tell everyone they are lost in their own created imaginary thought stories then go on to describe how your own created imaginary thought story is what it really is for everyone..... interesting. That's quite a thought story you have created in your imagination which you believe really is for everyone. Hm

I'm going to address the topic of 'awakening as awareness' as the 'ultimate goal'. Aside from the fact that the idea of an 'goal' is a self interested motivation, which doesn't mean it's bad or wrong, it's just that what it is. Eating is a self interest motivated goal, there are plenty of 'goals' that fall into this variety of pursuits. An 'ultimate goal' I'm going to surmise is one of ultimate importance, or a supreme pursuit. As far as 'awakening as awareness' as an ultimate one that is a matter of interpretation or preference, there is no authority to anoint it as such. That this 'no-self' just 'awakening to awareness' conceptual paradigm being anything other than your own perspective and preference isn't substantiated as any absolute truth. As someone who has explored this in my own experience I can attest there's nothing more 'absolute truth' about it, it's an imaginary concept. Even if there is perspective to be had in this imaginary paradigm of consciousness in reality it is also can serve as a denial of what is at all levels of experience. Just because one has a view from this perspective doesn't mean it is the absolute truth and the physical doesn't exist or isn't real. An acceptance of all experience in physical, emotional, intellectual and consciousness is the holistic approach even if one chooses to form their paradigm of beliefs from a portion of this experience or from all of it. A one-ness perspective wouldn't deny or dismiss any part of the whole since it is all one. Also, things like happiness, peace, fulfillment, bliss, joy or any of these types of descriptions of something we would experience are byproducts of our inner life. They result from the environment of our inner life and may not necessarily be in accordance to the circumstance of our outer life. Liberation is the cessation of self suffering and those things like peace, joy and bliss are an expression of liberation. In my experience anything that doesn't contribute to this presence of being can serve to be a distraction from it. Something to consider.

What to do from being complete and fulfillment? Everything. It's not about 'what' specific thing to do.... it's that no matter what you do do, it is done in fulfillment and being complete. Chop wood, carry water before realizing liberation, chop wood, carry water after liberation. Liberation empowers everything with fulfillment so transcend the 'mental state' of it and realize the 'being' it.

It's interesting how much description and belief there is about the 'imaginary'....haha.

There definitely is a difference between a standard one has based on conceptual understanding which isn't a lived experience compared to the lived experience expression in awakening but even if it is the awakening experience it still is a perception and not necessarily an accurate assessment.

@mandyjw Well, there's different ways in interpreting the nanosecond 'judgment' one could make. There's the 'gut instinct' one where it comes from conditioning from our past experiences, it's subconscious but this doesn't necessarily make it an accurate assessment. There's also the 'intuitive' one where it suggests a 'spiritual' aspect to it that transcends just the conditioning of the physical which includes psychology but again this doesn't necessarily make it an accurate assessment, either. Of course, some may say there is an even more transcendent one where someone fully awakened would view it with genuine clarity but even still this conceptual belief doesn't necessarily make it an accurate assessment.

It depends on what one defines as 'rigged' but when the Democratic party does everything it can to stack the process against Bernie including closing polling places in areas he had a clear advantage to gain more percentage points in tight contests making it harder for his supporters to actually vote. Not to mention the media doing everything it can to craft a negative narrative about Bernie in attacking everything about him including his supporters which really does influence undecided voters about whether they want to be painted in that way themselves. Then other candidates do everything they can to block him from potential delegates to win it outright with a majority it does make one consider that word could be apropos to the situation. Yet, that doesn't mean they actually cheated the vote count which would be election 'fraud' as opposed to what one could just consider 'rigged'. Of course, that does not erase what you suggest about their ability to transcend the things that would prevent them from being ready for such a transformation.

In awakening quite often the clarity we view our own self with also exists with how we view others but it may not be as complete of a transformation immediately so it will be a benefit to your path to discern whether you are seeing others in the clarity of awakening or the veil of ego.

You could have pointed out that humans are a social animal that relies on building healthy relationships with the group so is 'love' based interactions but modern society has alienated us from our natural behaviors and explains why there are so many that need therapy to cope with the suffering. If your therapist doesn't understand this simple materialist explanation of that obvious current dynamic then maybe they aren't the proper therapist for you. You should also refrain from calling a disagreement an 'argument' because words can be a powerful influence on how the mind frames events.

The Democratic establishment and elites would rather have Trump as President instead of Bernie because it secures their place in the power structure while shielding them from any real scrutiny about their roles in oppressing anyone who isn't in their class. The bonus to the Trump Presidency is that they get to blame Trump for everything while they appear to be the 'resistance' and 'good' in comparison to him as well as cash in through all the fund raising they will do under the facade. That goes for the media, too, they are making bank on this circus.