zazed

That is a beautiful thing. I did this a very long time myself, and there is nothing wrong with this. For myself, i found it easy to self-indoctrinate. I've been certain of a lot of crazy stuff You are actually starting to convince me to perhaps investigate this perspective deeper. So Rupert is back on the playlist tonight, with some of his thoughts on these topics This would be a contradiction of most what they are saying, and they are not saying they are speaking from enlightenment. They may have lost their sense of self. And as such are very open and non egoistic, this comes over easily, you can feel it. So you can trust their hearts yes. But if we can agree that, consciousness is consciousness, and that it means being fully aware. Then we must also agree that consciousness does not speak. Oh how easy it would be if our consciousness could just reveal itself. Here I am, this is me, your consciousness. Consciousness does not speak, it is pure perception, pure being, now. So their brains/minds have to make sense of all they are feeling, seeing, and the way in which they are aware. As such it is an interpretation done by a lesser entity. Still, i watch a lot of their talks, i watch Rupert or Mooji and especially Paul every evening. Yes they are enlightened, so their brain works better than most brains, it's not without merit. I think Paul implies he can barely explain it, and that the one explaining is not him, in some of his talks

This is a good question. Perhaps i'll believe it one day. I believe awareness does not believe anything. In that sense it is irrelevant what my brain believes Just sitting here, i can be aware, i do not need to think or believe to be aware, when i'm aware, then i'm aware. That is all there is. I cannot prove or disprove this non-dual end point, perhaps i can someday realize it, if i don't i'll never have proof either way. I also admit, Rupert sometimes goes into what i would call hocus-pocus land, and that's when i zone out Over time, i have gotten a natural aversion for anything too far-fetched, seen many new-agey tropes that pulled me in when I was younger. I've had my fill with believing things without proof, and I've had some minimal proofs so perhaps i have some luxury of not needing to. Perhaps one day i will experience this one-ness, and i'm only just discovering this being. Possibly, i would not experience it as one-ness. It's not as if being comes with a manual, it just is. I've felt things resembling oneness and connectedness with everything, but i don't label them as implying everything is one. Consciousness doesn't talk back, so the things teaching us, are the human brains of all these teachers, trying to make some logical sense of something incomprehensible. Do you really fully trust their mortal brains to do a good job of that? I don't trust my own brain to make sense of it, but hell, it's trying it's best, and probably failing, and that's ok. In the end, it matters not. The only thing that matters is being consciousness. This is what they mean, when they say, "all this is just a sign to consciousness, it is not consciousness itself."

Dodoster, funny thing is, i follow non-duality now, and it has given me these insights. I follow Rupert Spira, love him, and especially Paul Hedderman. Paul says often, you can't use the Buddha to seek the Buddha. You can't use light to find light. He also says awareness can only be aware of that which it is not. And i agree, it is my experience. But you have to realize, it is a very fine line here, it's almost both correct in a way. And it is not explicable in words, the nuance is so tiny. In a sense both statements are correct. But I've found the way Paul said it, very helpful in my realization of awareness. This is why i stand by my interpretation of awareness cannot be directly aware of itself (added a word here). Awareness is aware of itself in a sense, but it cannot directly perceive itself. It is aware through the perceiving of that which it is not. This i have truly felt and seen, and am quite certain about.

I was more aware, that instead of contributing to the discussion, someone was just making one liners, claiming these words were wrong without adding to it. It's hard to discuss dogma, if one is saying "The world is like this, you are wrong". It was kinda sad, when i noticed this conversation devolving into a circular discussion. Go back and read again, if you'd like. Being enlightened does not mean you cannot think anymore, one does not become brain-dead and blind... It also does not mean, you can't tell anyone you disagree with them. This body was thought English in school, that is how languages work. Should we replace everything with one or we or it? I can mean many things in English, it can refer to the body. The I referring to the body is the mind, so I can also mean the mind in English. What I really is tho, is the one perceiving both these things. My true self is pure consciousness of my mind sharing about it's interpretation of consciousness. This is consciousness aware of mind talking about consciousness. It's perfectly ok, and no contradiction The I who is talking then, is the brain making sense of consciousness, and trying to use its knowledge of English to communicate. No Buddha can be consciousness speaking or thinking, because consciousness doesn't form words and sentences, not with it's voice and not with it's mind. Consciousness doesn't speak English, English is thought in schools...

@Prabhaker I think we can agree to disagree. I'm just sharing my experiences, there is no purpose to trying to prove each-other wrong. There is no reason for anyone to even agree here. What you say is not my experience, perhaps because I've never taken to these "everything is one" statements. It's too dogmatic for me, and i abhor dogma. I would be interested to hear in detail your experiences or ideas. I am not at all interested in you saying my experience is wrong I didn't ask for teaching, i just shared my views.

Not to you as consciousness. It's kind of irrelevant, because you can only see the brain-interpreted tree. You can never see the tree as it truly is. The concept of trunk, leaves, tree are thought in school, consciousness does not know about them. A baby when watching a tree, knows nothing, it doesn't even know it's green (because it hasn't been thought the names of colors). But it still perceives something right? What exactly and how? The body watches the sun rise, it has eyes. Consciousness watches the sun rise within the thoughts of the body. In this way you are one with the sun, more or less. An enlightened person does not really care about the exact definition of the external universe. You are not separate from the sun when you are seeing it. When not seeing it it does not exist. This body is not the sun, because that would be ridiculous. You clearly follow a certain school, and you truly believe it all. Which is fine. It not inherently wrong, but i think you are literally interpreting things meant as metaphor (perhaps details lost over the ages). I believe nothing, i only see what i can see and know, and i read a lot and assimilate what is useful. I'm fairly certain I've been able to be consciousness more and more, but i might be in some kind of self-deluded mental state, which is probably more likely, but honestly does it even matter?

This is my experience. This body is watching the sun rise, but the fact it is the sun, and that it is rising, is a fact known by my brain. Consciousness is aware of this happening, but it is happening in my thoughts. As such the sun is rising within me. This is not my experience. It's also a bit to hocus pocus for me. In a sense it is true. If i imagine me expanding my cosmic-body in my thoughts, i will be aware of this, and it will be true to my consciousness, like everything else it is aware of. My experience is much simpler... Perhaps incomplete.

So kind of you to assume I am talking about a state of being tho. I did not have this only when meditating, i walked around like this for hours this weekend, and even in this moment. I am talking about all the stuff happening when walking around, stuff you cannot avoid even if you are enlightened, if you want to live. Like just now i was checking my fridge and thought briefly "i didn't want to cook", then i thought "it doesn't really matter". At the same time there was this perception of these thoughts that was really me. Like i'm an action figure being dragged around by consciousness, but that is also incorrect to state. The action figure still speaks, it's alive, it still has problems But I have no problems, i'm just perceiving this monkey's problems, this monkey that happens to be at the center of all that i can perceive, and this monkey even thinks it is me sometimes, funny... This is what my consciousness would think, if it could think or communicate its thoughts.

Your entire post resonates with my exact experiences. In my experience, you become aware of your thoughts stopping. And there is nothing left, there is this great emptiness. But it is intensely aware of everything happening to your body and around it via the senses. In this way you become aware of that what you are not, which is at that point everything you are aware of. You are aware of being aware of not being what you are aware of.

Yeah, more or less. What you must realize, awareness is not human vision and it does not have human vision. Awareness is aware of human vision. So what is awareness. It is the thing perceiving sound, sight, feelings, smells. In that sense, what you are conscious of most of the time, is just this human body. And everything you as consciousness sees, is a part of the perceptions you have of this human body. This is why the self identity is so strong for us. But in reality, everything you are aware of, is only facilitated by the human body and the brain. So you don't see my words on a screen. Instead you are conscious of your brain seeing pixels and translating them into words, and you are conscious of that. In that sense, everything is you, but everything is not really you. It's highly irrelevant to becoming enlightened, to understand the correct definitions of the world outside. It won't really help you to think you are one with everything. When you need to stop thinking and just become awareness itself. There is no effort in becoming consciousness, you don't need to understand anything. You just need to be aware. You need to do less...

Perhaps they say that, or it is an incorrect translation. Most masters did not write it in the language you read it. So your trusting unenlightened translators. You can be awareness. You can be being. Both are the same. But you are already that. You just don't realize it. If you were not it, you would not exist. Awareness cannot be aware of itself. Because awareness already is awareness. It's like shining a light upon a light. Awareness can only be aware of what it is not, and what it is not is your thoughts, mind, body. There is something to be had, but in my experience, it really defies words. There is awareness of being awareness yes, but it is more in the sense of being aware of all the things you are not.

Its much simpler really. The tree exists, the brain recognizes the tree, the body has emotions about the tree. None of those is you, but you are very much aware of them. You are that which is aware of those things, nothing more, nothing less. It is so simple, it is ridiculous, and still people cannot understand If you think it is abstract, you are overthinking it: You are that which is aware. You are not that which thinks. You are not that which sees. You are not that which feels. You are not that which hears. You are not that which dies. You are that which is aware. You can only ever be aware. You can never be aware of awareness. So, you can only ever be aware of that which you are not. Everything you are aware of, you are not. You can never know yourself as awareness.

Some say this, but i think it is terminology. They are real, but the illusion is, you think they are you, you think they are the core of your existence. What you are is awareness, this body and thoughts is not you, but you are aware of everything this body is doing. To say it is an illusion is an overstatement, to say it is essentially unimportant this body and thoughts, i agree. There is only one thing to say about enlightenment: You are that which perceives. The body exists within reality The thoughts exist within reality -> You perceive everything, body, mind, thoughts, feelings, sight, hearing, etc... And the thing perceiving all these things is you. Not the thing commenting about these perceptions, those are thoughts, they are not you.

The thought is real, the tree is real, the ground is real. None of these are a self however, they are just reality. The brain is able to make these distinctions thanks to study and learning. Consciousness is aware of all of the above.

The body and mind and thoughts are not a self, they never were a self. They give the impression of self, all these thoughts. And your true self, being pure awareness, somehow has come to believe this to be so.

Its not a separate thing. You are consciousness, it is all there is really. But you as consciousness is confused, and you believe the ideas and thoughts are really you. Then you may think there is you and consciousness. But ideas and thoughts are output, not self defining. Actually the thoughts and ego and emotions are real and happening, but they are not yours, what you are is the thing that is aware of them. Look into yourself, you are aware of everything your body/mind feels/sees.. What you are is just the thing that is aware of these thoughts. Once you as consciousness realizes you are just awareness, just seeing the world unfold, then you are enlightened. So basically, your consciousness is confused and thinks it is your thoughts and body. But if you really look, there is only being. There is only awareness of everything. If you "observe" a thought, who is it that observes the thought? That is what Leo means i believe, by asking yourself "who am I". There is something that is aware of you asking that question. But what is aware can never ask you a question. So you can only be aware of what you are not. Awareness cannot be aware of itself. You can't use the Buddha to seek the Buddha. Personally, i do not think we are all one consciousness. In my experience i am a consciousness.

One thing i noticed in India. Food is very cheap there, even going out eating. Work is also cheap there, getting help in the house and such, no problem. In that way, almost everything produced locally is relatively equally expensive as in Europe. The people earn less, but it costs equally less, so it evens out. Food in Europe is easily 3 to 5 times more expensive, in restaurants and in grocery stores. People from India coming to work here, have complained about the prices of European food shops. But all imported stuff, PlayStation, games, smartphones, foreign cars, musical instruments. Basically anything imported costs more or less the same as it does in western countries. It's kind of a strange dynamic, regular life = no problem. Imported luxuries = very expensive for many. This means it's a lot more sacrificing for an Indian guy to buy a Playstation, than it is for me. Even if our basic life needs cost almost the same.

Is it really important for me to understand, or a requirement even? It is what it is. What is the benefit to me for really understanding such money issues in poor countries, any benefit would be very abstract indeed. I've seen poor countries and visited regular people in India in their homes, but also in Cuba. It doesn't make money something more than a currency you exchange for goods. 3000 dollars would put a smile on my face too. Perhaps you overestimate how rich people are . It's still almost two months pay. The funny thing about cash is, it is more about cash flow. So if you earn like 1500 monthly, which is average here, and you have a loan for a house and some shopping to do, you may need to spend 1100 monthly to live. Utility bills, loans, insurance, car, public transportation. Then you have like 400 left for hobbies and saving for a vacation. You also need to save up for some emergencies, such as a car breaking down, or suddenly losing a job. So adding 3000 dollars to that cash flow would be a big increase still. But now we are getting into political discussions, on how the world is rigged so the working class makes just enough to live, but never enough to really save up and escape the work force. It's the rat race, and a model citizen barely scrapes by every month, until he dies.

Yes, you need enough to survive obviously. And i like some luxury here and there, i like a good kitchen, good pots and pans, excellent chef knives to cut vegetables. Oh and i like good ingredients, which also cost money. I also like computers, so i have an expensive one. And a high definition surround system. Basically, i have a lot of stuff in my house I am not certain how i would fare with less than enough money. But on the other hand, that is not the situation now, so why worry about it? I cannot predict how i would survive in a more apocalyptic society without money, it's a waste of time to try to predict my own future possible situation (and kinda against my philisophy of living in the now). That is what i mean with toilet paper. You use it, and as long as you have enough it's ok. But if it runs out, there may be problems, especially if you run out while using it. We shouldn't put to much importance upon money. But also not to little. It's basically just a tool for us to use, which we can collect more and more of if we don't spend it all at once, and if we have some sort of stable income.

But you only worry about it when you need to take a dump. It won't cross your mind other parts of the day, except perhaps when in the store. It should be the same for money I like to buy stuff, and the stuff can make me happy. But other than that money serves no purpose. I bought a cheap piano, to put some art/music in my life, this even makes me spiritually happy. It's even less useful than toilet paper, toilet paper directly cleans your ass. Money doesn't directly do anything, it's coins and bills, you need to exchange it first. So money is only good if someone else is willing to trade something for the money.

Perhaps money is more like toilet paper. If you need to use it, you use it. But your not stressing about if you have enough toilet paper in your home for all the shit to come. Still you have to get more toilet paper once in a while, so that you don't run out when there really is a lot of shit.

Not really. I believe it is irrelevant and even counter productive to overthink about money. If i have it, i will use it, if i do not i have to be more frugal. Money is not really important from a happiness perspective. It's like taking a shit, it doesn't necessarily make you happy, but you still gotta do it. Going from money makes us not happy, to abdicating money and going for total minimalism, is counter productive. I believe that is black and white thinking. There are many shades of grey. It's not because something is not relevant or directly good for happiness, that it needs to be eradicated.

I cycled for 40m, i had less mental anxiety about it, and was able to just be cycling. Had an average HR of 153, was sweating like crazy, and felt completely relaxed and serene. I felt like i was conscious of all the sensations, but they did not define me, almost as if i was hovering slightly above and behind my head (not literally). Then i meditated for 20m, i saw my mental states as they were, no attachment, i was able to be. I stayed with the sensation of seeing everything playing out, my thoughts, my feelings, but it just was as it was. There was no attachment or identifying. I haven't been able to just be like this during meditation for some time. For now it seems like a success, or a good placebo effect

You have trained your mental voice to talk with itself. Now it's talking in your head, going around in circles making you crazy. You also describe something that resembles a standard panic attack, which is nothing spiritual at all (it may surface when doing spiritual work, it does with me, because my mind is naturally anxious). http://www.webmd.com/anxiety-panic/guide/panic-attack-symptoms Just stop caring about your own thoughts. Stop taking yourself so seriously, and let go. You don't NEED to think. Have some fun, have some laughs, perhaps take a break from your spiritual practice. You may be forcing yourself to be this "spiritual" thing, but the body/brain/thoughts can never be spiritual. It's just a tool. It's no more you than your vacuum cleaner. With your vacuum cleaner your body cleans the house. Like with your body consciousness roams the earth. Love your body and mind, like the faithful vacuum cleaner of life, carrying you through the world. But don't identify with it. You can love a good vacuum cleaner, it's never let you down, it sucks really well. But you won't identify with it, you won't think you are the vacuum cleaner. Then why do you think you are this mind and body?

Money doesn't make you happy as such. If money makes you happy or unhappy, your living in the future, anticipating it's possibilities. Right now, reading this post, you don't need direct money. You may need it to pay your internet bill, but paying your internet bill doesn't make you happy either. Buying a new toy may make you happy, anticipating it's arrival and it's use. But soon the newness of the tool may wear off and you get bored with it, searching for another thing to buy. The money in this way is past and future in anticipation, dreaming and regret or forgetting. Money may make the brain/mind/self temporarily happy, it cannot in itself make the true self happy, it cannot bring real permanent joy. Regardless, a minimal amount of money to live comfortable is a requirement for happiness and enlightenment in today's society. Aside from joining a Buddhist or other monastery and letting everything go. But then you are substituting money for the security of the monastery, which is a crutch in the same way really.