Russell Parr

The illusion is that things inherently exist. That things exist beyond conscious observation. When in truth, ultimately, reality is infinite. Consciousness divides reality into finite demarcations to suit its purposes.

@SOUL Perhaps you are assuming that by mind I mean brain? Whatever the case, brain, mind, consciousness, ego, enlightenment, are all equally illusory. It remains true that enlightenment is the result and is indicative of a logical consciousness.

@Leo Gura Assumptive dismissals won't work on me, Leo

Yes it is. Enlightenment doesn't just pop up out of nowhere. It is an awareness resulting from an accurate understanding of reality, coupled by the shedding of delusion.

Hello Leo! Cause and effect is indeed a story, but it is a perfect one that describes the relationship between all things. It is absolute in the sense that it is absolutely true. Absolute reality is entirely permeated with causality, through and through. Nothing can exist without it. The Absolute is logical, or at least the understanding of it is, or else we wouldn't be able to understand or refer to it.

Are you saying that your consciousness is unlimited?

It could be said that an amoeba has a primitive, simplistic mind, from which its awareness emerges. But now we're playing semantic games. The point which this deviates from is in regards to the role of logic in enlightenment, which is to say, the enlightened mind is a logical mind.

@SOULSure, but it does not have infinite potential. Consciousness cannot turn into a potato, or a Ferrari, for example. The attribute of infinitude can only apply to the Infinite.

Interesting. You said that "it could be said that consciousness is the initial form of infinite potential." Do you believe consciousness to be infinite?

What exactly is infinite potential? That which is finite cannot produce anything that is infinite. The only thing that has infinite potential is the Infinite itself.

The Infinite is beginningless, so consciousness cannot be the beginning of it.

To reiterate, enlightenment is the mental transcendence of egotism. Meditation, or focused thought, towards an accurate understanding of the Tao, that is, ultimate reality, is what drives the mind towards enlightenment. The enlightened mind is fully functional; in control and aware of its logical processes. It is unhampered by the persuasions of the ego, which tends to and places importance on the subjective experience.

I know what you are saying, but what I am trying to do here is shine the light on the role of logic. It is far too often misunderstood amongst seekers, who mistake absent-mindedness for enlightenment.

The mind is not to be transcended, only the ego. You cannot have revelation or awareness without the mind.

Yes, necessarily so.

@Dodoster What I am pointing out is that Enlightenment is insight into the ultimate nature of reality, or the Tao. Insight is a mental thing, and so when we talk about enlightenment, we are necessarily talking about the mind. Put another way, enlightenment cannot exist without it's opposite. It is the product of dualistic demarcation. It is only by such that it can be spoken of. Therefore, enlightenment is not the Tao.

@DodosterI agree with your last sentence But life (and enlightenment) is a property, or rather a fabrication, of the mind. It is an illusion created by relativistic observation. Ultimately, there is no life or death. Only the Tao.

How so? Have you ever met a dead man that was enlightened?

IMO, Alan Watts was enlightened. Let's just say he used alcohol as a tool to enhance his awareness in a similar way that some of us around here use psychedelics. His addiction to it will of course detract respect for him in the eyes of others. Addiction is, of course, unfavorable, because of the crippling and demanding effects it normally has, but it doesn't necessarily stifle enlightenment.

(emphasis added) But we are talking about enlightenment. Enlightenment has to do with the mind, by definition. Logic is a key ingredient to communication and understanding.

Agreed. The enlightened make the best logicians.

Meditation serves one purpose, and that is to quiet the ego. To be enlightened is to live in a meditative state. Whether Aristotle's findings or laws are valid or not, as well as whether or not everyone agrees with him, has no consequence on the importance and role of logic itself. Nature does indeed go its own way, and we are merely here for the ride. We are logical to the degree that we accurately understand and express Nature with our ideas and actions.

Logic is no small thing. It is not an invention of man, but a necessary part of his consciousness. Life is simply a property of man. A temporal one, at that. Logic is not one-dimensional, it exists wherever there is inquiry and observation. You cannot put logic aside. As long as you are conscious in any way, it is in action whether you are aware of it or not. Subject and object go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other. Logic is not about winning or losing, but understanding.

@Leo Gura, are you enlightened? edit: I guess I'll add that I am not necessarily questioning Leo's credentials; I'm just curious what he would say if someone were to ask him. Of course, coming from me makes the situation a bit different since I have been speaking authoritatively about enlightenment.

Happiness is embedded in dualism, and therefore has nothing to do with spirituality. To seek or desire happiness is to voluntarily step into a battle of opposites, that is to say, to fight against that which makes you unhappy. The best way to be happy is to not seek it at all.