Scholar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsETTn7DehI Message from Arnold Schwarzenegger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8YYmrgAeqw This is basically what Palestinian activism should look like. On the other hand, Israeli activism should be focusing solely on criticizing the Israeli far right regime and their transgressions. But it is easier to wallow in victimhood and avoid taking any responsibility, so of course both sides will just add fuel to the fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keqZb6YrVO4

Most of the people who were slaughtered by Hamas probably had a similar attitudes. People living in these Kibbutzes are stage green hippie types, same goes for the people at the music festival. There were in fact some peace and human rights activists who were executed by Hamas.

To be clear, she is referring to the people who held her captive, not the people who kidnapped her. She reported she was beaten and experienced hell by the actual terrorists who slaughtered civilians and brought her back as a hostage. Hamas has every reason not to mistreat the hostages that are designated for exchange, so this is not very surprising.

US voters.

This is a little worrisome: https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/HHP_Oct23_KeyResults.pdf Over 50% of 18-24 aged participants answer Hamas mass murder of over 1,200 Israeli civilians can be justified. This is US registered voters by the way. @Leo Gura Is it just me or does image embedding not work anymore?

Look, a mature person's take on the issue: https://barackobama.medium.com/my-statement-on-israel-and-gaza-a6c397f09a30 Barack Obama

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1716133054865867040 Sad that it has come to this.

Most people in this thread are uneducatable, so you are wasting your time.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/oct/20/antisemitic-hate-crimes-in-london-rise-1350-since-israel-hamas-war-met-says https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1715785173957067117

@Leo Gura And to be clear, my layman opinion is also that a ground invasion probably will not lead to anything. I think a lot of people will die and it has a high chance to end in disaster for Israel and achieve basically nothing. I mean it will be akin to fighting the Hitler youth in Berlin's last stand, just terrible. But I do see this as inevitable, and I am not sure what the proper action to take here would be.

It accomplished the destruction of the current regime, which is the goal. After that you can try to establish an environment in which future wars are less likely. This has happened numerous times in history, just look at nazi germany and post-war germany. Now, is this likely to occur? Probably not, but this will be the attempt, and like I said, we have to be realistic to some degree. No nation state will allow what happened and then not seek to destroy the entity which committed the act. You can fantasize about what an enlightened, perfectly rational being with an enlightened, perfectly rational population might do to lead to the best outcome, but at least clarify you are engaging in science fiction.

https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/17cyhp0/these_people_are_tapped_in_the_head/ This is a good representation of a significant number, if not majority, of palestinian attutide. It's so easy to just deny anything that does not fit your narrative, especially if an entire portion of the political spectrum basically enables you in your hatred and bias. Now, this will be true on both sides, but don't forget that you guys are enabling this. You are making the bias and hatred worse by enablings this type of mentality, and it will lead to more death and destruction, especially for palestinians. I don't know how realistic that is, and we both know no nationstate would just do some assassination after what happened. This isn't just a terrorist organization, it would be more like the Cartel became the elected government of Mexico, and then they did what I described. This is war, and it will not stop until the other party has been destroyed.

Imagine if the Mexican Cartel went over the US border and in a day killed 60.000 civilians, executing them in their home, livestreaming it, torturing them cartel style and so forth. And then imagine the response of the president would be "Let's just build a bigger wall.". Even if this was feasable, you have to understand that this will not happen. If we cannot engage with some semblance of realism in this topic, we might as well be writing sci-fi novels instead of discussing politics. And imagine what kind of sign that would send to the Cartel, and everyone else watching the issue. "Oh, we can just kill 60.000 civilians and the US will basically hide from us?".

For those who still have naive notions of negotating with Hamas: https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/17btsfn/first_responders_describe_what_palestinian/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts A good list to contextualize how insignificant this conflict is in relation to other conflicts that are currently ongoing: Remember, these are all ongoing conflicts. The Israel-Palestine Conflict is classified as a war. Take note of how long it has been ongoing and how many casualities in total there were, in relation to other on-going conflicts. You can sort the lists by any of the different categories.

This is misleading because they won't tell you the actual conditions, which require the release of 5000 palestinian prisoners, as I showed you above. Hamas is basically using a propaganda strategy, trying to frame it as if Israel was unreasonable and didn't care about the hostages.

I don't think this is true? What is your source on this? From what I understand there was some sneaky misreporting (by mainstream news papers too), the condition is actually the same as it has been since the beginning, which is the release of thousands of palestinian prisoners. So, this type of negotiation is not engaged with, simply because the good old "don't negotiate with terrorists" logic, which seems to hold up here. https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/19/hamas-islamic-jihad-holding-hostages-war-crime Zeihan says that a wider conflict is very, very unlikely: Forensic evidence of atrocities committed is coming out: https://themedialine.org/top-stories/evidence-on-display-at-israels-forensic-pathology-center-confirms-hamas-atrocities/

I think what Palestine desperately needs is a leader, a figure like Martin Luther King, to turn and direct the frustration of the people in a productive way, rather than have their anger be exploited and amplified for the sake of ideologues and their delusional ideas. If the palestinians don't take agency in that regard, the situation will not change, even if Israel will compromise and do what is right.

Nothing was confirmed. You guys are so blatantly biased, how can you not be ashamed considering the forum you are on?

This conflict truly revealed who in the media landscape has not lost their minds to the dynamics of social media. It feel like we are reaching a tipping point in global interconnectivity. It's just so incredibly infectious, and it's a really, really toxic and destructive mindset. I genuinely feel like this is a problem that might be more challenging and dangerous than climate change. It's like we are on the precipice of some sort of collective psychosis.

The bias here is amazing. Hamas basically slaughtered over 1000 people, and they continue to fire rockets non-stop at Israel, and people are like "But why is Israel bombing Gaza?!". It's hilarious. Of course, nobody is blaming Hamas for firing rockets from civilian areas, or storing ammunication and weaponry in hospitals, which just blew up in people's faces. No, it's all the evil Israel committing a genocide. See, this is what it would look like if I was playing the blaming game. Now, ask yourself how much of an emotional response you got just from reading what I wrote, and whether or not it is conducive to truth.

If I had a say in this I would send the crusaders into Israel and everyone would live under Christian rule how it is supposed to be.

Leo is way too lenient on your guys, he needs to get out the belt.