Scholar

I don't know what you mean by wrong. You are not actually conscious of the standpoint of the universe, you are conscious of a story you tell about the universe. It's easy to tell that this is not coming from a place of "higher consciousness". This is all your ego talking, making excuses to justify itself. If this was an honest question, you wouldn't be questioning whether it's fine to consume animals. You would ask yourself if it's fine to rape children. Sit down and ask yourself the very same questions about raping and torturing little children. Less evolved simply means that evolution towards higher complexity tends to remove that certain state of affairs. The Spiritual Level is a Level of Isness. The prescription you are seeking are part of that Isness. Me not wanting you to consume meat is as much part of Existence as you wanting to continue to consume your meat. Stop asking moral question to the Great Eye of Isness. The Great Eye of Isness will simply show you what is. And everything Is, including all moral propositions. Pedophelia Is. Pedophelia resistance is. The only question you have to ask yourself is what the world is. You are still looking at this as if it was a story. There is no answer for why it is less evolved. It is less evolved because the very fabric of the Being has determined it so. That's all. Why is Redness red? Because it is. End of story. Look at the world for what it is. If you see that, you will be able to see where it is going, what it is growing towards. If you then happen to seek to do so, you can consciously contribute to that. You are contributing to it right now, merely in an unconscious way. Contribution is all there is. In the end, what is, is that given the choice to save the pig, I would accept killing you for the pig. And what is, is that you would resist that. And then evolution would come to conclude what the Truth is. The Truth will always be what is. I made a thread on this particular issue, maybe it can help you:

The reason why it is less evolved is very simply because of the fact that evolution will exterminate consumption of animals in the human context in an optimal future. There are a few reasons for why this will inevitably happen: Environmental factors will force us to adjust our consumption significantly As society grows more mature, it becomes more compassionate in general, leading to an inability to accept the suffering and death we are causing to others Technological progress will render it inefficient to grow entire animals for specific parts So the reason for why it is less evolved is because evolution will evolve away from it, much like within the human context it is evolving away from things like rape, murder and war. It's a necessary consequence of higher complexity, atleast on this planet. I don't quite understand what you mean by "spiritual standpoint". There is no such thing as a spiritual standpoint. And if there is, the spiritual standpoint is fine with war, rape, murder, torture, pedophelia, holocausts and everything else that you can imagine. I would not make an appeal to spirituality for moral issues.

This should be moved to another subforum I accidentally posted it here.

Atleast he got somewhat close, he was on Russia Today in the Pre-Debate Show. He turns centrists into progressives factory assembly line style. If only he wasn't okay with torturing animals for fun...

Vaush would just look like a ranting socialist, and he is a budget Destiny, so why not just use Destiny instead.

What do you guys think of this?

This is a good point. If you yourself are Gay, you don't need to be Green to fight for your own rights. Otherwise every homosexual person would be stage green. There is a huge difference for people wanting to give a disadvantaged out-group rights, like a non-LGBTQ person fighting for LGBTQ rights, and someone who simply fights for their own rights, like a LGBTQ person fighting for LGBTQ rights. LGBTQ can be an individualistic, stage orange pursuit, especially when talking about a person fighting for their own rights and survival, as is depicted in the image you showed. Also there are contrarian movements that can be lower stage. So I can be for LBGTQ rights just to spite the traditionalist Blue, or to show how I am opposed to them. There can be many things going on that are not due to compassion and empathy towards those who are disadvantaged. I observed an interesting dynamic in some african americans who are part of Black Lifes Matter. When you confront them about veganism, they will include veganism not because they care about animals, but simply because they want their own pursuit for individualistic values to be recognized. They for example might stop being vegan because the vegans don't support Black Lives Matter. Here you can clearly see that they aren't interested in helping those who are disadvantaged, in this case the animals, but merely use the label to propogate the ideology that will help them gain their own rights. This is a stage orange pursuit, not a stage green pursuit. Much like a prisoner might be stage red, and stage green might fight for the prisoners rights. Of course the stage red person will agree with it and has been fighting for those rights all along, however that doesn't make them stage green.

I can imagine that Leo would say one 5-MeO experience is not enough, or that it had to be done in a certain way with a certain dosage etc. so I don't exactly if that singular experience is sufficient. Do people usually realize Love when taking 5-MeO-DMT once? I don't think they agree about Infintie Depth. Conceptually I think Frank used a good analogy. When you have a Fractal Zoom in, the zooming itself is the state of recognition, or enlightenment. Infinity is revealed, as it is the process of endless expansion. It can expand and expand forever, but what is not important is the amount or degree of expansion, but the very process of expansion itself. That is what Infinity is. So to Frank enlightenment is to have a constant and clear awareness of the expansion itself. Once that is achieved, any point of expansion is just a point of expansion. It seems however that Leo disagrees about something more fundamental than who is more expanded or not. He seems to claim that expansion itself is Love, and that that particular insight is of a different category that the mere recognition of Expansion or Infinity. Traditional Enlightenment would be the recogition of Empty Expansion, and Leo's claim is that of recognizing what that Emptiness is, which he claims is Love.

That's some nasty stuff. Weird, I also noticed that I have a strange reaction to turmeric, it was so noticable that I actually avoid using it now. That Chapter 6: Health History sounds really similar to my own, I wonder if I could have some sort of issue with heavy metal poisoning aswell. It's so similar that I myself also basically work laying down most day because sitting and standing is really uncomfortable, causing me back pain which I always attributed to bad posture, but who knows. I also remember that me and my father had a really bad reaction to the flu shots we got, so who knows maybe it is somehow related. But it could also be completely unrelated and due to some other issue, or a combination of issues, or no issue at all. It's so hard to tell, health and energy issues are the most annoying and untransparent thing there is. And then you have Bob eating McDonalds, drinking coffee and smoking cigarrets being able to focus and thrive like some sort of genetically engineed super-human.

Simple. Leo has to get traditionally Enlightened, and the Enlightened people have to go on a Leo adviced trip. We can then determine what people come to conclude.

Sure, but you don't have to be even close to green to fight for LGBTQ rights.

I highly doubt these are green. Be careful not to confuse ideology with stages of development.

Body and mind, which is the relevant factor here in terms of how damaging it is to a person. Or do you think having sex with a 17 year old is the same as having sex with a 5 year old? There is also a difference between being attracted to a 16 year old, which I remember hearing was in a study found to be the most physically attractive age to men on average, versus being attracted to a 8 year old, which is abnormal obviously. I don't think Sex Trafficking is good either way, but saying it was a pedophile ring draws a very different picture from the rather usualy underage sex trafficking that is very common in the world. Especially if the persons were around the age bracket of 17 rather than something like 12.

Is that true? All I heard so far is about underage persons, not prepubescent persons. I think there is an important distinction to be made between sex-trafficking of underage people and actual pedophelia.

@datamonster Explore this: To reach stillness, you do not need to become still. To reach stillness, all you must do is recognize the stillness within motion.

@datamonster Infact, even my response falls into this trap in terms of the kind of language I used. Just notice it. "What I need to do instead is just Seeing it, not avoiding it, that's what I need to do!", your mind might think and feel. Now, notice that. Just observe it. That's all. Just let me See. Just let me See. Just let me See. When you see, you will come to see that Life itself is the ultimate Seeing. That there is nothing more to See.

No, this is infact the opposite of what you have to do. Your mind is so confused within it's morality that it cannot even recognize it anymore. You have once more created a judgement. What you need to do instead is to recognize when you use it as an excuse to be judgemental. You need to See it, not avoid it. If you wanted to avoid it, you wouldn't have created a World full of it. If you didn't want to suffer, suffering wouldn't exist. You are here precisely because you are supposed to See all of Creation.

You observe yourself being judgemental and be clear about you being judgemental. You will never stop being judgemental, if you were to become unjudgemental you would be a rock. Your job is not to stop being judgemental, your job is to clearly see your judgement, to see it for what it is. Meditation is not about stopping thinking, but clearly seeing it, not getting lost and absorbed by it. If you say "Man, I should stop being judgemental because that's low consciousness", that itself is judgemental. You haven't escaped judgement. It's like thinking about stopping to think. You will only further delude yourself if you attempt to do this. Instead, clearly observe the nature of judgement, let it flow through the lense of consciousness. This will change judgement, and maybe one day it shall be almost gone entirely. By clear Seeing, and by detached Awareness. Not by judging judgement. This is why the concept of low consciousness is a trap. It is the perfect way for your ego to trick itself. This is why you cannot observe high or low consciousness by the amount of judgement someone else has, or doesn't have. There are plenty of people around, on this forum, and in the spiritual community, to pride themselves to be non-judgemental whilst completely blind to what I am speaking of here. Don't forget, the Highest Consciousness is literally Hitler wanting to exterminate all jews. Your job is not to change content, but to See content. That is what meditation is about, about Clear Seeing. If your goal instead is to stop being judgemental, you are infact in a moral pursuit, not in a pursuit of Truth and Consciousness. This is fundamental to recognize. This will be true until you can clearly recognize how your judgement blinds you to the Truth. But by the time you see that, the answer to the question you have asked will have long revealed itself to you. If you stopped being judgemental, you would never come to truly see what Judgement is. This is why we must experience that which we seek to truly come to See.

This is an interesting video: He is very much like a small cult leader. He thinks murder and rape are natural and therefore aren't immoral. Somehow he brainwashed his girlfriend to believe the same. Apparently they have carnivore meet-ups, they get a sense of community from all of this. In the video there is this one guy that is not completely lost yet, and you can see him struggling a bit between his attachment to the community and the arguments. That's the kind of mind that is not yet beyond help, but most of the others are.

Look what I found: If his brain is dysfunctional due to neuroleptics then I would say that he has a mental illness, quite literally.

Nope, the guys eats raw meat. He was in a hospital multiple times due to malnutrition, infections caused by the raw meat etc. He is quite known in the vegan community for his insanity, he probably has some mental illness. Here he is eating 1 year old rotten meat.

This just popped up in my recommendations. Kind of shows how things degenerated in america. Bush was a complete clown back then, but I guess we didn't really know the full spectrum of insanity that could be the american presidency. Also, it will be interesting to compare this to how Trump will react if he loses. Even with someone like him being the leader, there was still prestige and respect around the title of presidency of the US. That's gone now. Biden will not change that, something died when Trump became president.

@Leo Gura But what about foreign actors? Is it not easier than ever before for foreign actors to influence ideologies across their own borders? China and Russia can directly influence the minds of americans. Make them so confused about reality, make them so angry at their own elites that they start to disintegrate the very institutions which uphold their own democracies. Why would foreign actors not do this? They can infact do this without worry for retaliation, because they are uniquely protected against this kind of warfare, due to control of information and journalism within their own countries. https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/04/24/which-foreign-actors-have-most-gain-influencing-election/ Think about in 10 years, when china or russia might develope artificial intelligence that can on it's own accord replicate within the web and influence people in any way they please. Think about Russia and China creating their own platforms, their own silicon valley. They have already proven what they can do, and with their influence in the world increasing, how will the a western nation even protect itself against that? It seems like a limitation to our own democracy is almost necessary so as to protect the minds of the citizens against malicious and ignorant actors. I don't know if self-regulation will be enough, because the ideology is so prevelant it seems that we could have entirely new sectors of the economy opening up to the needs of those ideologies, further dividing the people, instead of unifying them. Don't forget, censorship only works when your platform is the only one around. Who is to say that Twitter, Google and and Facebook will remain nearly as dominant in the future?

What I worry about, and what seems to be relatively unique today, is that we are so protected from consequences that we don't experience them until the entire system basically fails. I mean what happens if you believe in flat earth or that elites are here to enslave us? People don't seem to have shame anymore, because they are growing away from stage blue, which means the primary way by which we have kept people in check is completely useless. What I also worry about is the way people handle consequences. I know people who I am very certain that if they got Covid19 and were literally dying from it, they would instead of admitting their fault, keep blaming the elites and tell me that they are being poisoned by the doctors. And most important, where will the sanity come from? Information is decentralized. In the past things might have been re-balanaced because the only major flow of information came from the established institutions. People can just keep reinforcing the idea that the suffering they are experiencing is not a consequence of their ignorance, but the consequence of the fact that they are awakening from the dream. That the elites are now doing everything in their power to stop the revolution. What I worry about is that the suffering will instead of leading to peace actually lead to more violence. Because once people suffer, they might be willing to go to war.

Leo what do you think about the future of the western nations? Do you think this will get worse or better over time? What are potential solutions to this that we can actually enact before some sort of critical mass is reached? Sometimes it seems to me like this could grow to become an actual threat to western societies if it continues the way it does. People live in such foreign realities that it's becoming less and less possible to actually have any kind of conversation that's based on common understanding.