Scholar

The UN number is highly undercounted because it does not count most of the deaths which occured on currently occupied territory, which is where the vast majority of civilian deaths would have occured. Israel is getting supported because it is in retaliation, it is not unprovoked. I don't see people in here defending war crimes.

It is not necessarily a war crime, and if Ukrainians built military installations in hospitals, the Russians could be bombing a hospital with civilians in it and it not being considered a warcrime: https://genevasolutions.news/peace-humanitarian/ukraine-is-targeting-hospitals-always-a-war-crime

I am not compelled of that narrative. The russians flattened entire cities, causing possibly over 25.000 civilian deaths in the siege of Mariupol alone, and much of it was simply for military reasons. Again, if the Ukrainians did to Russia what Hamas did to Israel, I would expect Russia to nuke Kiev.

I don't see much of an issue with this statement if it is referring to Hamas. People are quote mining a lot, so you have to be mindful of the context around which statements are made. I saw a few of these misleading, and you guys should really not be taking anything Jackson Hinkle says seriously. He is a complete nutjob and misinformation machine. That said, there are definitely remarks and generalizations about palestinians that were unacceptable within the Israeli community, which is to be expected.

You can say that they have a moral obligation to risk their soldiers life's and accept heavy casualities to spare the civilians who live there. But keep in mind you are asking for something that is beyond what any comparable nationstate would actually do and consider reasonable.

Watch this: Hamas built a huge network of tunnels underneath all of Gaza. There is no just going in and neutralizing the enemy. Ground invasions also tend to have more civilian casualties than bombardments from what I have read. It's not all of Gaza, but it certainly will take a great toll. Any nation state would act the way Israel currently is in response to what happened.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/what-hamas-wants-israel/675648/ Good article.

Some more insane footage floating around but I won't be posting that here.

Well, the Europeans went a little too far with their immigration policies so some backlash would do them good. He has bee at large for 6 hours now?

Apparent ISIS terrorist on killing spree swedish people in brussels. Possibly motivated by Quoran burnings and call for global Jihad. This looks like a complete failure of the police to me.

I am well aware of the other side of the story.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-forensic-teams-describe-signs-torture-abuse-2023-10-15/ https://news.sky.com/story/israel-gaza-war-recovered-bodies-show-bloodthirsty-gunmen-took-time-over-torture-and-that-hamas-has-changed-12985212#:~:text=

Yes, apartheid for actualized.org/forum.

We need an ascension system where all the reasonable people get a special secret section in the forum so they can discuss things without the noise.

I am no longer wasting my time trying to educate children. I made all those points already in this thread. If you cannot see how immature people in this thread engage with this topic, I don't know what to say. The abysmal quality of discussion here is something that makes me feel like I am wasting my time on this forum in general.

This is how an adult engages with the topic: I want you to watch this and compare this to how you engage with this topic. In general, what I see in here is constant moralization, blaming-games, and reactionary-outrage. This is not productive and will not help anyone, neither the israelis nor the gazans. You have to be mindful of the social dynamics so they do not capture you. You have a basic moral duty to not make this situation worse than it already is, which you do when you ignorantly continue to stoke the same flames that infected you. It is blinding you to understanding the topic, and if you as a bystander cannot have an objective view of this situation, how can we hope that either side in this conflict ever will? As someone who is following Leo's content, you should have far higher expectations for yourself.

This should be a mandatory watch for all of your outrage cows, because you basically got caught up by the social media processing plant (which happens to everyone if not mindful of this):

Well if people are going to shitpost I will as well:

Blame blame blame!

Reading some sane articles makes you realize just how far removed from reality the twitter discourse is, especially this delusional notion that palestinians don't have any other choice but to basically slaughter Israeli infants "for freedom". It's just so utterly ahistorical and ignorant of how actual emancipation movements have occured that you might as well dismiss anyone who continues to spout these nonsense talking points.

Excellent journalism from germany: https://zeitung.faz.net/faz/feuilleton/2023-10-14/0480b6c57ef295b7a009bda12056a47d/?utm_source=pocket-newtab-de-de

Muslims around the world don't give a shit about the palestinians. None of them will accept them in their own countries, and when they did they expelled them because the palestinians started biting the hand that fed them. The only reason why muslims care about this issue is because it is the jews who are committing the atrocities, not any other reason. I just can't engage with you people anymore. Your brains are basically just a social media trained outrage-blame machines. There is no conversation to even be had. You lost the plot. Your only priority is to put all blame on Israel, and if you have to frame Hamas and their terrorist attack as some sort of outburst of the palestinian people and conflate the Gazans with these barbarians, you will do so. You will encourage the palestinians to fight this senseless war, just like Hamas wants, and rather than doing what will lead to peace, you will do what you believe to be righteous. And of course, the palestinians are going to be the ones who suffer primarily as a result. Netanyahu would be proud that you basically do exactly what he would have wanted you to. You are actually not that different from Hamas, this is just an ideological war for you.

This is a good example of people being completely captured by the narrative of Hamas being some sort of authentic expression of palestinian resistance. Which is precisely what they want so they can continue to use Palestinians as cannon-fodder for their holy war.

You can make an argument that some forms of terrorism or military action against your oppressors is justified, but certainly not what Hamas did. We also know that Hamas is not interested in the emancipation of the palestinian people. When the poles were genocided by the germans, violent resistance was justified. What was not justified was to go around to intentionally kill german civilians, including targetting infants, to provoke some sort of holy a war. If the polish resistance had acted that way, they would have rightfully been called out for losing their humanity, and therefore having lost any moral ground they stood on. Be careful that in the process of fighting monsters, you yourself do not become one too.