Prabhaker

Your interpretation is not correct. Religion says : you create the effect, and see: the cause follows. It will look absurd if you don’t know it and don’t experiment with it. What emerges from the chemical and electrical processes of the physical brain ?

Not at all, it is a religious law. What is mind according to you ?

The mind is just a process. In fact, mind doesn't exist, only thoughts - thoughts moving so fast that you think and feel that something exists there in continuity. Thought exist , mind doesn't exist. Mind is just the appearance.

Religion says: Produce the effect and the cause follows. This is absolutely illogical. Jesus says the same thing in different words: Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, then all else will follow. But the Kingdom of God is the end, the effect. Seek ye first the end – the end means the effect, the result – and the cause will follow.

Everybody has something, everybody has accumulated something. Nobody is so poor that he has nothing. And nobody is so rich that he has everything. Even the poorest has his own clinging, and the richest yet has his own ambitions. Even a beggar is rich because he has something which he clings to. It may be just a begging-bowl, but it doesn't matter whether it's a kingdom or a begging bowl. The question is not of the objects you possess; the question is whether you are possessive. You can have a kingdom non-possessively, and you can be a beggar and very possessive. So when Jesus says that a rich man cannot enter into the kingdom of God, he's talking about the man who is possessive, who is miserly, the man who is closed and cannot share, the man who cannot participate in life -- who remains afraid and becomes an island unto himself, who separates himself from the whole and becomes a closed thing, who remains in a cocoon. This man is what Jesus means by a rich man.

You are misinformed.

What Buddha communicated to his closet disciples was not not limited to logic, presence of enlightened masters communicate that which is not logical.

You have been told about meditation and enlightenment that is logical by new age teachers, that which is not logical and can't communicated in words in not told.

I am not separating humans from nature, I am not limiting nature to Aristotelian logic. If Aristotle and Buddha had met, it would have been really something just fantastic, because Aristotle says A is always A and can never be B. But Buddha has a fourfold logic: he says A is A, A sometimes is B, A and B sometimes are both together – so much so that it is difficult to decide which is A and which is B; and sometimes A and B both are absent – still, their absence is their absence. He calls it fourfold logic. And if you look at existence you will find Buddha a better logician than Aristotle.

Logic is not the way of understanding consciousness, life. Meditation is. Aristotle, one man for two thousand years has been dictating everything in the world of science: the laws, the logic that he wrote two thousand years ago continue to be applied. Anything against Aristotle is simply unacceptable. No man in the whole history of humanity has dominated so much. A single man – and he created the whole system of logic, and science goes on following his logic. Nature goes on its own way – it has its own laws, it has no obligation to follow Aristotle.

@Russell Parr Logic is a very small thing, life is vast. Logic is utilitarian, it is an invention of man. Life is non-utilitarian, it is not an invention of man; on the contrary, man is life’s invention. Logic is one-dimensional, life is multi-dimensional. If you want to live with things logic is enough, but that is not going to be much of a life. When you live with persons, when you relate with persons, logic is not enough at all; in fact you have to put logic aside. Logic means mind. Mind is helpful in understanding the objective world. Mind is a hindrance in understanding the subjective world, because the subjective world is beyond the mind, behind the mind. When somebody comes with a conclusion, then he looks through that conclusion and chooses only things which support his position. Logic is a prostitute. It can help anybody - for or against, it has no problem. if anything has to be proved by logic, it can be disproved also by logic. Nobody has ever achieved truth through argumentation. Yes, you can defeat somebody. You can even defeat the person who may have experienced. If you are articulate enough and can bring in language and logic in your support. To win in a logical discussion is a childish game. You may not have experienced anything, yet you can be a good logician. You may not know anything at all about the truth, but you can argue well. That is a totally different quality.

Read my discussion with Rali.

Alan watts is man who was unenlightened; hence it is more appreciable. When you are enlightened, whatsoever you say is beautiful; it has to be. But when you are not enlightened and groping in the dark, and yet can find a window of light, that′s tremendous, fantastic. Alan Watts was a drunkard, but still he was very close.

You missed 666

@Loreena OSHO: Love Is Authentic Only When It Gives Freedom

You troll very seriously !

It is a well-known fact that in poor countries the population goes on exploding for the simple reason that the poor man has no artificial entertainment.

Observation is one of the methods of science; certainly an observer is needed. For observation three things are needed: the observed, the object; the process of observation; and the observer from where the process will start. Observation is a connection between the object and the observer; between the known and the knower, knowledge happens. The scientist is ready to accept the known, he is ready to accept the knowledge; but he is not ready to accept the knower, for the simple reason that the knower himself cannot be made an object of knowledge – and he believes only in objective reality. Spirituality’s whole work is that corner which science is continuously denying: to know the knower, to see the seer, to feel the feeler, to be conscious of consciousness. Certainly it is a far greater adventure than any science can ever be because it is going into the scientist himself. The scientist may go to the stars, may find the ultimate division of objective reality, but he will remain absolutely ignorant about himself. Observation is watching whatever happens within oneself. There is a world of thoughts and passions inside. One observes that world; one keeps on looking at it just as one stands on the seashore looking at the waves. Krishnamurti has called this "choice-less awareness." It is completely indifferent observation. To be indifferent is very necessary. Indifference means one makes no choice, no judgment. One does not label any passion or desire as good or bad. One does not make any judgment of good and evil, between virtue and vice. One simply observes. One simply becomes a witness, standing aloof and apart, as if one has no other purpose than that of remaining aware and observing. The moment purpose creeps in, the moment choice or judgment comes in, observation comes to an end. Then I am not observing; then I have begun to think.

Bliss is serene, tranquil, cool, it brings contentment. When you are blissful ,you are at ease, at home. It is ecstasy without any excitement.

You call the excitement that is pleasurable to you as happiness, excitement that is unpleasant to you is unhappiness.

Our happiness is always excitement. Bliss has nothing to do with any emotions (aka excitement). Bliss is tranquil.

@Key Elements If you are asleep, then pleasure is happiness. Pleasure means sensation, trying to achieve something through the body which is not possible to achieve through the body, forcing the body to achieve something it is not capable of. People are trying, in every possible way, to achieve happiness through the body. The body can give you only momentary pleasures, and each pleasure is balanced by pain in the same amount, in the same degree. To the sleeping, pleasurable sensations are happiness. He lives from one pleasure to another pleasure. He is just rushing from one sensation to another sensation. He lives for small thrills. His life is very superficial; it has no depth, it has no quality. He lives in the world of quantity. The non-meditator sleeps, dreams; the meditator starts moving away from his sleep towards awakening. Then happiness has a totally different meaning: it becomes more of a quality, less of a quantity; it is more psychological, less physiological. He enjoys music more, he enjoys poetry more, he enjoys creating something. He enjoys nature, its beauty. He enjoys silence. He enjoys what he had never enjoyed before, and this is far more lasting. Even if the music stops, something goes on lingering in you. And it is not a relief. The difference between pleasure and this happiness is: it is not a relief, it is an enrichment. You become more full, you become a little overflowing. Listening to good music, something is triggered in your being, a harmony arises in you – you become musical. Or dancing, suddenly you forget your body; your body becomes weightless. Pleasure is animal, happiness is human, bliss is divine. Pleasure binds you, it is a bondage, it chains you. Happiness gives you a little more rope, a little bit of freedom, but only a little bit. Bliss is absolute freedom. Pleasure is dependent on others. Happiness is not so dependent on others, but still it is separate from you. Bliss is not dependent, is not separate either; it is your very being, it is your very nature. This moment is all. Now is the only time and here is the only space. And then suddenly the whole sky drops into you. This is bliss. This is real happiness. There is not a single person on the earth who does not have blissful moments sometimes. Even though we have become very unnatural, nature asserts itself; there are moments it takes us unguarded. A bird suddenly starts calling and you fall silent... and suddenly, the benediction of it. Or it starts raining and it takes you unawares. You slip out of your mechanical habit for a moment; you are no more a robot. And the smell of the wet earth.... Anything new, anything that surprises you, brings you out of your robot-like existence, and there is nature in all its beauty. Those moments are rare because they have to come in spite of us.

What you call happiness is a kind of excitement - and what you call unhappiness is also an excitement. You call the excitement that is pleasurable to you as happiness, excitement that is unpleasant to you as unhappiness. Happiness is worthless; it depends on unhappiness. Bliss is transcendence: one moves beyond the duality of being happy and unhappy. One watches both; happiness comes, one watches and does not become identified with it. One does not say, ‘I am happy. Peace, it is wonderful.’ One simply watches, one says, ‘Yes, a white cloud passing.’ And then comes unhappiness, and one does not become unhappy either. One says, ‘A black cloud passing. I am the witness, the watcher.’ This is what meditation is all about, just becoming a watcher. Failure comes, success comes, you are praised, you are condemned, you are respected, you are insulted – all kinds of things come, they are all dualities. And you go on watching. Watching the duality, a third force arises in you; a third dimension arises in you. The duality means two dimensions: one dimension is happiness; another is unhappiness. Watching both, a depth arises in you: the third dimension, witnessing. And that third dimension brings bliss. Bliss is without any opposite to it. It is serene, tranquil, cool. It is ecstasy without any excitement.

@Michael119 Rejoicing in your own aloneness is what meditation is all about.

The objects can be outside you, in the material world; the objects can be inside you, in your psychological world; the objects can be in your heart, feelings, emotions, sentiments, moods. The objects can be even in your spiritual world. And they are so ecstatic that one cannot imagine there can be more. Many mystics of the world have stopped at ecstasy. It is a beautiful spot, a scenic spot, but they have not arrived home yet. That’s what J. Krishnamurti, for his whole life, continued to say: that when the observer becomes the observed, know that you have arrived. Enjoy the journey and enjoy all the scenes that come on the journey— but don’t stop anywhere unless your very subjectivity becomes its own object. When the observer is the observed, when the knower is the known, when the seer is the seen, the home has arrived.