Salvijus

Observer can exist without the objects of observation. Objects of observation cannot exist without the observer. Your true nature is absolute and eternal, your secondary nature is changeful and temporary. Your secondary nature is still part of you, but it's not your essencial nature. Because objects depend on the observer, observer doesn't depend on anything. IT IS ABSOLUTE! I should put this as a quote beneath my posts ?

@Breakingthewall Silence can exist without the sound, sound cannot exist without the silence is also thought provoking statement that show they are not equal dimensions of existence. It shows that one is absolute and another is dependant on the other to exist

Is sound the same as the silence? I would agree that they are one but i would not agree that they are the same. It makes more sense to me by definition to call silence absolute never changing essence of the universe. And sound as a manifestation which is changeful and relative etc.. ultimately they are one, but not the same.

@Breakingthewall if the only color that existed was blue, we would not know what is blue, we only know what is blue because we have different colors to contrast it against. Similary we know what is changeful, because there's something inside us that is absolute and never changes. How's that? Sounds logical to me.

I hope you're wrong ?

Infinite change is cool. But is there something that never changes? Perhaps the pure witness who witnesses all changes happening would be the answer?

Okey i see what you did there. By that definition all experience of the present moment could be labeled as absolute Let me rise another question then. If a sound can vanish, is it eternal? And the second question, if sound is not eternal, how can it be absolute? Because absolute means by your definition it has no opposite. So if sound can exist and then stop existing, can it be called absolute?

Interesting. Allow me to challenge this view. By definition absolute means that which never changes. So an open question becomes. Do sounds change? Yes, all the time. Does silence ever change ? No Does silence have degrees? No Does silence have different forms? No By definition only the silence is absolute, never changing, without any levels. It is our true nature, pure witness, primordial awareness. Out this nothingness/silence comes the sound/manifestaion. And manifestaion is not absolute it is relative. By definition no sound, no cloud, no phenomenal experience can be absolute (unless your definition of absolute is something else) This would be my counter perspective to what you sayed that only the absolute exists. I think there's a flaw in logic there.

Then the next stage of nonduality would be to recognize that silence and sound are inherantly one. But still silence remains the absolute and sound remains the relative. We can have silence without the sounds, but we can't have sounds without the silence. Or we can have sky without the clouds but we can't have clouds without the sky. Nothingness is king, manifestaion is the queen.

The point you make here is interesting. Nondual teachers would say, there's something beyond experience. Experience comes and goes and is not absolute. Like music, sounds come and go, but silence is absolute and has no levels. Without silence sounds could not exist, sounds are temporary, silence is eternal. Silence stands for our primordial awareness that has no quality our true nature.

@Breakingthewall i think you're talking about two experiences or two states. one state is when in our perception everything is one Another state is when in our perception we feel seperation and duality In this context enlightenment is an experience or a state of perception. When clouds of ego are veiling the awareness it feels like everything is fragmented. When clouds of ego are gone, all sense of separation is gone. Yea, that's why it's called nothingness btw. Intangiable, incomprehensible, immesuarble, the womb of existence. Where all states come and go, even the change of perception is happening inside this awareness that undergoes no change. Not sure where im going with this one even

True. But it could be argued that the sky itself is not a state. Whether there are clouds or there are no clouds, sky is uneffected. There is no such thing as first stage sky then, second stage sky etc. It's always the same, primordial, never changes, perfect, absolute. So by definition it could be sayed it is not a state, because states are changful, and the sky is beyond every change. Not very well articulated but still, you can get the point.

Listening to Lord's prayer in original Aramaic language can definitely tune you into the energy of Christ. I think that's a helpful example of what these chantings can do.

@M A J I :) okey, if you say so

No no. I heard you loud and clear. It's just that i see it differently.

You're right i need to work on my triggeres when people trash talk on beutiful beings. However you clearly have some beef with certain spiritual figures yourself and your desire to discredit them comes not from Light and peace. A good opportunity to reflect on your own shortcomings. ?

Connecting to different energies before the practice is a real thing. Try meditating in a church and then try meditating in a zen temple, you'll see the energy and the results will be very different. In a similar way, your kundalini practice may have an element of grace without which the practice is not complete. There're forces that contribute to your spiritual growth much more then your personal efforts. It's really hard to explain the importance of it without sounding illogical and crazy. If it is really hard for you digest these ideas then at least experiment with a mantra and without a mantra for some time.

Any fool can say what you've sayed. Here, I'll show you. "You are blind MAJI, you don't see how deluded you are, you're spreading false Light, you may not like hearing this, but it's the truth, deal with it, because Im not here to pamper you. Oh and btw, i see through all your bs because i'm a legendary lightworker" See...? it's so weak. I suggest adding more substance next time, and the convo will become much more interesting

Simply calling others fake and calling yourself true is of zero significance. Even if you repeat how amazing and woke you are 1000 times. It still has no weight unless you say something of more substance.

So are you 100% confident a state of total stillness, detachment and uninvolment doesn't exist? It feels like this convo is not getting anywhere. I guess we have different views of enlightenment and what it entails and lets just leave it at that.

Had a pleasure to receive the darshan of an opera concert live today. There were some truly godly heavenly moments. I've also been blessed to have tickets to the upcoming Andrea Bocelli concert. Listening to these sounds in a live concert is going to be an Epic experience i feel. Even today was all goosebums.

What i would propose that one doesn't lead to the other. Meaning that if one abides in emptiness absorbtion, will not have the element of nondual love. And if one abides in nondual love he will not know absolute emptiness and detachment at that moment. At best one can jump from one state to another but cannot be at both simultaneously.

It's possible to see the truth in multiple perspectives. You can see the truth that your eternal nature is not a state and it never changes, it remains the same under all conditions. And you can also see the truth that you can reach higher levels of consciouness, energy, intensity etc. Both views are true somehow.

Beautifully put