Willy Phallicus

The justice of the universe may be as simple as at some point you will experience all the suffering that you have inflicted. You will experience it and it will be as real to you as it was to your victims, every agonizing second of it - you reap exactly what you sow. As a bonus on top of that you get the full unadulterated truth about exactly what kind of asshole you are.

Me

When you look at how many things are faith based (economics, politics, evolution etc) yeah everyone is operating under some kind of religious doctrine or paradigm. Even atheism is an opiate of the masses.

You're not wrong but where did I say religion in that quote? I said a belief in god and the afterlife which you don't need a religion to espouse. Some congregations would have you voting republican/democrat in the midterm elections - does that make politics apart of religion? The first response to the OP was /thread in one sentence. It doesn't wholly matter what they believe its what they do what those beliefs and what those beliefs make manifest. It comes down to the intent and quality of structure of that community. Not all religious teachings are bad or harmful. Some of them are good and teach important lessons. Maybe you wanna make that distinction, I dunno. There are worse things you can teach your child than a belief in god. Just ask Blaise Pascal. Is it? How do you figure? What about lies that just end up being lies (santa claus, storks, tooth fairy etc)? You dont get to single out religion as something we're ignorantly pushing on kids to their detriment while conveniently ignoring all the other bullshit we tell kids. Lets not forget all the stuff we omit and fail to tell them about either. Something tells me you haven't really thought your bias through to make it something other than bias. That's what real, honest, guru free and genuine truth seeking does to you. You take on and carry every truth not just the ones that are convenient for you.

In a very real way, that's not entirely wrong. There is a higher dimension than this one. Much higher. This one doesn't matter (but it does). Not everyone takes their godhood in a direction most would expect and like to see. Reality is up for grabs (God and the Devil are both aware of this) and people can use it or misuse it as they so please. I was told and have told myself not to judge but its very difficult at times. I don't want a magic healing penis to stick into a lot of gullible fuckable women, I just want peace. I feel like he's enjoying his life more than I'm enjoying mine so props to him I guess.

Which is worse? The belief in a god that loves you and an afterlife which ends up being true or the belief that western culture is good and wholesome when its profane and vulgar and usurpatory and overseen by a bunch of decrepit, degenerate tax masters?

Make up your mind then because I said that and you disagreed. Obviously you have preferences. I don't give a shit about your preferences. What issue? There is no issue because you haven't proven where the actual abuse is nor how, nor why. Or when it manifests and in what form. Its just some unsubstantiated opinion you have. Noted. On the other hand, you seem to have an issue with the impressionable being taught the ten commandments and to help the less fortunate for some strange reason. There's no choice in the matter. The child has to develop and you're starting from ground zero. Again, Santa Claus? Is telling the three year old that grandma went to heaven going to retard them for life? Is telling that three year old babies are delivered by storks to mommies and daddies who love each other going to lead to some kind of degenerate, criminal lifestyle? Kids cant handle certain truths until they are at a certain point in their development. As untruthful as it is, you probably don't want to tell your 28 month them exactly, in explicit detail, how they were conceived when they ask where they came from. Eventually the child will grow up and you can adjust the goalposts when necessary - I think its called parenting or something. Sure, you can royally fuck up a kid mentally and developmentally with religion (if you're already demented) but you don't need religion to do it. Millions are baptized, communed and confirmed and live whatever passes for a completely normal life just fine. If you're raising your kids to be tax paying voters and actualized.org members you think thats any better? Yeah why would it right? Lol You mean like how you can empathize with a pedo but they still might go out and groom an innocent child despite your good intentions? I guess there are no guarantees in life huh? Life aint fair, there's your first lesson kids. Since we can't all be born into the world with all the worldly knowledge we need I guess everyone has got to do the best they can. It depends on the religion we're talking about but you can do much worse with or without it. Introducing your kid to jesus isn't going to render them wholly incapable of seeking truth later in their lives and it could be a catalyst for it.

Its up to the individual seeker to find out what works for them. That could be Peter Ralston or Alan Watts or Gnostic Jesus. So like what you're doing right now? You can't take anyone with you down your path. You can't lead anyone and you can't follow anyone. It isn't necessary to cut people off either.

Yea okay, and? What are the parents alternatives? Shelter the kid from the outside world until after puberty when maybe they can read and understand Plato's Republic? Is the intent of the parent bringing their child to church to brainwash them into a dangerous cult, purposefully retard the child's development or torture the crap out them in some way? If that's not the intent then the best you can say is that's not how you would do it. Otherwise the ideas the church puts forth on all of those topics aren't anywhere near abusive. The church's teachings aren't perfect but what is? Children from around the age of two need to start being integrated into the larger community otherwise their later development can be severely hampered. Church may not be the most ideal setting but it can't be any worse than the public education system and/or the culture at large.

If using conventional logic, the argument is ultimately circular (and so is everything in the universe). Despite the fallacy that's not some flaw or mistake (see the ourobouros). Absolute truth is absolute truth. IT is the Truth. Its that simple. Its not something you find outside you - it's inside you - there is no outside you - it is You and you are IT. I Am. From an intellectual/logic perspective your burden is abandoning the logic that says 'impossible' and accepting the fallacy your logical mind can't or won't and doesn't comprehend under any "normal" circumstances.

Anyone one who stills has even a modicum of faith or hope in the political system either has a very thick skull or is an incredible masochistic glutton for punishment.

You asked if taking a child to church is abuse. The answer is no. Unless you want to make the case that telling the kid that santa claus and the tooth fairy are real when theyre too young to know better is demonstrably evil. You could make the case if the church and its following was abusing the child in some way or intentionally programming them with some kind of hurtful or warped ideology. At the holy communion age (roughly 7 years old) in the christian church though for example they preach the basics - the golden rule, god loves you and an example of one human being whom may be worth emulating.

According to you anyway. Children are born into the world completely helpless and ignorant. If your premise is they have a bunch of stuff placed upon them before they know any better than telling them from birth that they are a boy named John is more than an apt comparison. They dont have their own sense of identity yet before you gave them one. Whataboutism aside, the first response to your inquiry pretty much answered your question. Its not the church or religion that's bad (although it certainly can be), its what is actually being imparted through that structure.

Is giving them a name and telling them they are a boy or girl child abuse?

Lead by example is my stance - and do that without doing it - wu wei. The journey can only be undertaken by the individual. During that journey you may run into at least one individual who is on a similar journey as you who you can compare notes with. I can almost guarantee that person is not going to tell you what author's books to buy. That's not to say those things (books, manuals, teachers, gurus) are totally worthless but again, it comes down to the individual.

I'm sure my contributions to this thread could be construed as such but I want to make it clear that's not the case. Empathy has its uses but you can't save everyone with it and there are indeed things that don't need, want or deserve saving.

The system we currently find ourselves in needs to be abolished completely but I highly doubt the farmers are going to give up their farm. Its a no win situation.

Going from the new age to mainstream christianity is just stepping out of one matrix and into another.

Any attempt in any arena of reality to sort fact from fiction is futile and foolish because it's all fiction. The question is, which fiction do I choose? Some people have hitched their wagon to some really crappy fiction and it makes them into assholes. Some people are living some really great fictions and it makes their ride worth the going. Yet the biggest problem most people have is that their 'facts' have locked them into a shitty script and they don't know how to get out or even that there is an out to their own sad little story - that probably was never really theirs to begin with - it was thrust upon them as fact before they could do anything about it. I could easily package up some bullshit and make a good living as a sheep fleecer - so here is the lesson - a truth sold is a lie well told. Anyone trying to sell you anything is full of shit. There is no secret occult knowledge that is going to set you free. The Truth won't ever get you laid - that's what bullshit (game) is for playa. It's not hard to get people to believe, they'll believe anything and that's the problem. People will believe in anything but themselves - which the majority of gurus or teachers depends on to keep themselves from working a mundane 9-5 and living paycheck to paycheck like most of the cattle - and getting metaphorically or literally fellated by your followers tricks their asses into thinking they're doing good work. I'm not trying to knock anyone who has benefitted from Ralston's work, there is some good stuff there but to me its just a modern take on ancient ideas. Ralston needs you more than you need Ralston.

Dawkins lol. If he lives to 109 they'll keep rolling his ass out. Whatever. All is well in the mind of god. Don't fear the tech. Everything's gonna be fine.

Ralston makes the same mistake all gurus and teachers do - they start believing their own bullshit. Can't say I blame them, we all do the same thing in one form or another.

He admits it (as its not something he is stupid enough to deny) but he still tries to hang it on immaturity, drugs, fame and "the scene". I don't think hes being wholly dishonest about that but its still falls short of owning it completely. Well, he's got a court date coming up. Probably why he's on the "I was a different person back then" tour.

Yeah I guess you're right. The guy wasn't selling fake rolex's out of a trench coat at the train station, he was just selling a version of himself that didn't exist. Edit: You can be a bullshit artist and not a con artist but you can't be a con artist without being a bullshitter. /shrug

I guess there's a huge world of difference between being a "world class bullshit artist" and a conman. He's a public figure/talking head that has made a living peddling agendas and narratives (with lots of ads for you to buy stuff) which have coincidentally paid him extremely well. The guys had his grift on for years. Maybe he's not a conman in the strictest sense of the word but come on. He was selling people what they wanted to hear and they bought it and repackaged it - all while having some very naughty skeletons in his closet. The mea culpa is a little late for me but people are free to make up their own minds.

@Joseph Maynor True but that doesn't mean they should deny how cheaply and easily they were conned.