What Am I

@shree was there any kind of comedown or hangover? Anything you can say about it in comparison to mushrooms?

Yeah, the fact of it being a group experience almost certainly has significance. As if some kind of overarching force entrained all of us at once. Or we somehow initiated it on each other.

It's a relief to know I'm not the only one.

I think you'd be way better off maintaining a consistent daily practice and then supplementing it with something like 10-day intense periodic efforts. The 10 days on their own may not be enough to produce a desirable effect if you're starting at more of a beginner level. Another important point is that meditation doesn't strictly have to be an act of sitting perfectly still and focusing your attention. Some people simply don't do well with that technique, myself included. I've found much more success with what Adyashanti calls "true meditation". It's difficult to explain what's meant by that, but he does a good job in this clip.

I experienced something similar many years ago during a high-dose mushroom trip with some friends. This was before I was aware of spirituality, which may have actually worked in my favor in terms of not freaking out as bad since I had no preconceived notions of eternity. Mine happened in a conversational way. There were four of us. One person would make a statement, which would lead to another person saying something, and then another. Very similar to what you're describing, it kept occurring in some kind of extraordinary loop. Now I realize that sounds mundane, but I assure you something abnormal was occurring and we were all acutely aware, and we were somehow powerless to stop it. The girl in the group actually broke down crying, and still continued to inadvertently play her part in the loop lol. Eventually it wore off and it was like being freed from a trap. If I were to guess what causes this, it could be the effects of eternity touching our smaller self while that self still has too much control. Like a short-circuiting of our false individuality, which should normally be absent at that level of consciousness.

It is pretty typical that the original topic eventually gets lost as it goes on. Any thread can serve as a type of testing ground for the sharing of experiences and comparison of theories once it spins in that direction. In the best cases, it becomes a dialectic aimed at arriving on a truth that neither party was previously aware of. In the worst cases, it's a contentious debate with the goal of proving oneself as correct at the cost of the other person. We should obviously aim for the former.

Fair point, I agree it's simply a matter of a lack of understanding reality. The consensus view, even when held by billions of people, can be incorrect. Those of us on the forum who have had the experience should know that more than anyone. In turn though, it should also open up our horizons quite a bit. It seems likely that the fact we're all God is not the only mystery on Earth. It just takes a measured and sophisticated approach to not get caught in delusion while exploring these things. I'm guessing that if you break it down, we're pretty much in agreement.

I think that'd be a very tricky distinction to tease apart for the mass majority of people. Personally, I understand the unity of all things can be directly experienced as a profound self-authenticating truth, but that wouldn't stand up as legitimate for those who haven't had the experience.

lol I think this may fall under the category of 'wild speculation' that Leo was trying to avoid. It may or may not be true, but the supporting evidence in this specific case hinges entirely on the word of Matias De Stefano. It's reasonable to be skeptical. Though I do wonder. If you were to take this story to the masses and compare it to the idea that we're all actually God, like a huge portion of this forum believes (which I believe as well), which would they find more difficult to accept?

@MaDoubt any new experiences with iboga to report?

So I've seen this question asked a million times in various forms: "Can 5-MeO-DMT be used with MAOIs such as harmalas to enhance and extend the experience?" The questioner would usually be met with a bunch of responses stating that it's inherently dangerous and can cause medical emergency-level reactions. Usually the answers are kept vague, but sometimes they get more detailed and specific, naming serotonin syndrome as a potential result. The one thing missing in all my research was a firsthand description from somebody who'd actually experienced these negative and dangerous effects themselves. There was always reference a few obscure recorded deaths whenever the question came up, but never anything overly convincing or verifiable, which is why the question was kept in a gray zone in my mind where it may or may not be a myth of sorts. Well I'm here to affirm the warning and give that firsthand report I wish I'd had before being crazy enough to actually try this combo. It's not an especially long story. I've used harmalas plenty of times with DMT, and I love the enhancements and added psychedelic flavor they provide. In my ignorance, stupidity, and lack of a convincing counterexample, I decided to give it a try using 30mg sublingual caapi harmalas (harmine+THH) followed ~20 minutes later by a relatively low dose of 2mg IM 5-MeO-DMT. Within a few minutes of the injection, I started to feel a panic that kept building and building. It wasn't the type of panic we're probably all familiar with which results from something like a bad trip though. This was a physiological panic where my body was giving strong signals that something was going terribly wrong. I felt an extreme form of hypertension throughout my whole body, and especially in my chest. It's hard to put words to the sensation, but it felt like a true risk of physical death as opposed to the ego death produced by psychedelics. I was indeed not even tripping very hard, but I was giving myself decent odds that I was about to actually lose consciousness and die. Thankfully I was able to hold out and it started receding after around 30-40 minutes. It was harrowing and possibly the closest I've ever been to a life threatening emergency. Please let my example be a lesson to anyone who's considering actually trying the combo. The dangers it poses are the real deal. If my dose of 5meo had been any higher, I may not be here to type out this warning. And maybe I'd become just another statistic that people cite when the question gets asked.

Good clarification. That's what I essentially meant. My experience is similar to yours where more 5meo equals cranking up consciousness to ridiculous levels. By annihilation, I'd be referring to the part of yourself that struggles against that expansion.

I'd like to see them get past my trusty industrial-strength butt plug!

Yes, definitely. It would appear human life on Earth is not what it seems. It boggles my mind how so many people with spiritual beliefs can understand that we're actually cosmic beings living an infinite existence, and we're all in fact the singular ultra-being at the highest level, but the notion of these other extreme situations also existing and being intricately connected to the spiritual phenomenon is just a step too far for them. Within the first year of realizing spirituality was a fact, I had to take inventory and modify basically all of my previous assumptions. The world is just so much bigger than I used to think.

Oh nice, UDV is the other famous one that I've heard of. Even though your experience with them soured, it's cool you got to check them out. It's just too bad they're stuck in that type of stifling paradigm. You'd think having their minds routinely blown wide open by ayahuasca would broaden their horizons lol. IMO, 5meo is the ultimate psychedelic for assisting spiritual advancement. It sounds like you're having all the expected effects, where the changes in perception stick with you afterward due to the energetic events during the trip. Your breathing even slowed/stopped, which is another huge sign of getting into that state where you're flooded with energy and about to activate kundalini. I get how you're hesitant to go further, because that shit is nuts. I guess I'd recommend you keep working towards a breakthrough, but it's actually really hard to wholeheartedly recommend it when the experience is so unbelievably hardcore. It's also hard to say how any particular person will react. I think there's a lot of unidentified individual factors at play as to whether it's just too much too soon. I'd recommend you trust your gut on how to move forward with 5meo.

That makes a lot of sense. If quick and total annihilation is the goal, vaping is pretty much the best.

I've shared this video a few times on the forum. It's a conversation with Adyashanti and Loch Kelly describing their sort of everyday experience. It's a good description of the classical enlightenment state of being.

lol that's hilarious. Was the church Santo Daime? It's funny how the Christian aspect of these churches may be influencing their willingness to tolerate beliefs outside their norm. Nothing against Christianity, but that does seem to be common for them. Damn, that is so cool. It's interesting that you'd have a visionary experience with 5meo, because that is definitely not typical. You must be highly prone to those types of states. I've clearly felt the presence and communications of entities many time during pharma, but my experiences were nowhere near as powerful as yours sound. I think the line gets blurred when talking about aliens and multidimensional beings. They all seem to be beyond those limitations, and it would appear humans are the dunces who mostly can't take advantage of their innate capabilities. We're like majestic birds whose wings have atrophied, leaving us to walk in the mud our whole lives, knowing very little and getting most of it wrong. Quite mysterious what coarse of events led to this condition. I've been into the UFO/alien/entities topic for a long time, so I love talking about it when I get the chance. There doesn't seem to be much interest or belief in it here, but I guess that's to be expected. For many people, spirituality probably sounded weird at first too.

JESUS lol, that's intense. Is this ayahuasca used in like a ceremonial context? With the vine and leaf? I have a good amount of experience with pharmahuasca, but I've never quite had that type of experience. Yours sounds more like the typical abduction encounter involving UFOs. When you get into the concept of other intelligent and spiritually advanced life, one of the theories is that we're a prison planet of sorts where we're forcefully made to reincarnate in these inferior human bodies over and over again, using technology that transcends physicality as we know it to affect what would be considered a soul. Let's hope that's not the case.

So true, I've had a pretty bad chronic issue for over three years now and it fucking sucks. Good physical health is so easy to take for granted until it's lacking in some way.

I guess it's possible it'd absorb and produce the expected effect, but you'd most likely be a pioneer for the method, without any data to reference in terms of an appropriate dose or anything. I'd definitely start low just in case. If you want to emulate my method, I go over it in this thread:

Exactly, these are interesting evidence in support of endogenous psychedelics controlling higher states of consciousness. Awesome stuff.

LOL probably truer than any of us realize. I'm sure there's great value in both learning from previous traditions as well as keeping a wide open mind to new discoveries, and beyond that their views likely align quite a bit. I have to figure out who my arch nemesis is on this forum and begin digging in.

Considering 5meo is an endogenous psychedelic in the human body, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that's exactly what it's designed for. So in theory, even someone who has never consumed 5meo externally is still under its influence when going into profound states. It's the current assumption I'm running on, barring any evidence to the contrary. I mostly use it via subcutaneous injection. I take 5-MeO-DMT fumarate and create a sterile vial in solution with water. From there, I usually inject anywhere from 3mg to 12mg, with 12mg essentially being a breakthrough. I experiment a lot with lower and moderate doses as well. I've used other ROAs, but this is definitely my favorite. I think I've read in other posts that you vape it? I know that's pretty much the most hardcore method there is in terms of quick onset and strong effects.

Nice, I love Adyashanti. He's one of, if not my most favorite teacher. His concept of 'true meditation' is a relief from the confinement of typical limiting meditation techniques, and it goes so incredibly well with 5meo use since it already puts you halfway into a realized state.