What Am I

This part is tricky. Like you mentioned before, someone could lack a legit awakening and still display stuff on the more extrasensory side, and vice versa. That's what I'm trying to stress. They're connected, but yet separate to a certain degree. So skill and knowledge of these kinds of things wouldn't be required for someone to have an unfathomably deep awakening. You can just look around the forum and many other places to verify that.

Strangely enough, despite the extreme profundity, it wasn't this specific experience that tipped me over the edge into understanding the reality of spirituality. I saw it as a very bizarre curiosity for which I had no reference, and I left open the small chance that it was just a short-circuit in my brain from drug use or something. I wonder how many other psychedelic users are experiencing highly prized states of consciousness while remaining clueless. I'd guess a ton.

Thanks, I try my best to be as transparent as possible. It's one of the perks of being anonymous. You better believe I don't say this kind of stuff to others in person lol. Even among those who are into spirituality, this is pretty esoteric. Adyashanti mentions it during the interview at the end of his book and audiobook "Spontaneous Awakenings". At least by his description, he claims he'd be able to discern others' awakening by the contents of a conversation rather than by an intuitive paranormal ability gained in the awakening itself, though it's possible he was just being modest and also mindful of how unusual that would sound to others if he claimed otherwise. It's hard to say. I guess by "average level" I'm referring to those who have had a awakening of the type he describes, which is very considerable indeed, but remain ignorant of what I'm talking about here. I don't mean it to be condescending, and perhaps I should have said "typical" instead of "average level", because it's certainly more rare to successfully dive into these side areas of spirituality. I definitely do not want to pull Leo into this conversation, because I don't think this is something that he especially likes or chooses to discuss as part of his teachings, but here's one of his blog posts worth reading. This is just a sliver into a much larger world that, for whatever reason, people just aren't aware. But luckily for us here on the forum, we've already personally experienced a large range of phenomena that'd be considered "impossible" by normal standards, so it's a relatively smaller step into comprehending that there's even more outlandish truths than what we currently understand. Like I said, this is just a little tidbit of interesting info. If you find yourself curious to dive more into the topic of human spiritual potential, you'll find stuff you never would have imagined. https://www.actualized.org/insights/varginha-ufo-alien-communication

The only indication I had that there was a loss of time and experience was that I suddenly found myself in that reboot state, with no memory whatsoever of what directly led up to it. I don't remember falling into a profound state after hitting the weed or anything. And like I mentioned above, there was a long stretch where that reboot state was occurring that I was slowly forming back into a recognizable reality. I should also mention that I was kicked into a way higher gear of tripping upon my return. Absolute madness. And additionally, I was ignorant of all spiritual matters at the time, so I truly had no idea what had just happened to me. It could very well be the opening of the door that allowed me to get to where I'm at now, which I admit isn't a significant level of mastery, but it's at least something.

Wow, so if this is the case, I guess I have had a cessation once when I was on 4g of shrooms and smoked some weed. This was way back in high school. I was tripping out of my mind, hit the weed, and then there was a true loss of literally all things, with no awareness of anything whatsoever during the loss. I'd call it the void, but I wasn't there to experience it and I have no memories of it. As I started to come back, it was as if I was forming from a state of knowing absolutely nothing about anything. Reality was ever so slowly shifting into place. First I remembered that I exist, and then that I'm on earth, then that I'm human, etc. It happened in very slow stages. It was very unique, and I've never had a repeat experience quite like it.

Awakened people probably can sense each other, but I don't think it'd apply to your average level of awakening. For example, Adyashanti was asked this exact question in an interview, and his answer indicated that he could perhaps interpret a person's awakening based on a conversation, but not via mystical means. I mentioned this before in another thread, but I don't think it got a lot of attention. Awakening alone doesn't seem to be a free ticket towards developing your full range of capabilities as a human. It could almost be considered a separate branch of development, though the two obviously share a connection in terms of relating to the spiritual domain. Ishanga hinted at it above. There is an entire energetic system that can be consciously controlled to perform what would seem to be miracles to the uninitiated. But rather than being some mysterious mythical fairy dust, it's an expression of the metaphysical laws of nature relating to human physiology, which would no doubt be scientifically verifiable and understood to an appropriately advanced civilization. I also think you're on the right track in terms of enhanced communication of an energetic type occurring through the eyes. That seems to be part of how it's done. So if you're atypical in your unconscious development of this kind of thing, and so is this other fella, then what you're asking is not impossible. Though I couldn't say for sure whether it's actually true in this case.

@Breakingthewall that's true, your description of a 5meo breakthrough does sound similar to classic cessation. Very interesting.

Yes, exactly. With skills in conscious awareness, you can alter and enhance the flow of a trip moment to moment. Being under the influence of psychedelics seems to be a prime time to check how impactful your techniques (or purposeful non-techniques) are, because the states produced are so pliant and provide useful feedback.

@Water by the River wow, very impressive encyclopedic knowledge of the subject. Thanks so much for taking the time to write it up. Any recommendations on quality resources to become better acquainted with relevant Buddhist and Hindu teachings? My own knowledge is more on the elementary side in comparison, and I could see a deeper understanding having benefits while I try to navigate the spiritual landscape.

Well, you do make an argument based on some evidence, and I admit mine is based on the assumption that it simply can't be that rare, so who knows. Maybe the truth is somewhere between our assumptions. I do know that it's only recently that I've first joined a forum to discuss it, and there were many years where I was fully aware of this stuff and kept it to myself. So I could see a sizable portion of people simply not wanting to expose themselves, or maybe not feeling like they have something to add to the conversation. After thinking it over though, I agree it's an interesting data point that there's so few subreddits and not necessarily as many members here as you'd think, considering the billions of people on the planet.

Oh man, I assume you don't really think those on the forum are the only people who are aware of the true meaning of spiritual pursuits, but I'll take the opportunity to mention that we've merely stumbled into something much larger, of which I'm sure many others on earth are aware. The perennial philosophy goes back as far as recorded human history, and it likely goes back much further than that. The topic is esoteric, sure, but not quite that esoteric lol. But if you're just saying you can't pick a random person on the street and expect them to know, then I'm with you there.

If the main question of the thread is asking "How will the rest of the world, including the rational and scientific community as a whole, become aware of a spiritual reality?", it will take more than a few descriptions of your inner subjective experience. I can't imagine that'll ever be convincing, no matter how detailed and poetic the description. Strong objective evidence of something way outside the accepted norm, and which has an obvious and reproducible impact on the physical world, needs to be presented to start shifting perspectives. That could come in a large number of forms. People seem to forget, but there's an infinite range of subtle spiritual phenomena between the gross and the causal. The main theme of this story of life is "God", but at the same time "There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy." I think it's very easy to get tunnel vision on the God aspect, which I admit isn't the worst thing on which to get tunnel vision. It's just that as an individual expression of God, you're left relatively incomplete and with blind spots.

@Ropuch7 LMAO it do be like that sometimes.

Since I've been into these topics for quite a while from the time I was young, I've had to create like two separate versions of myself. In one of them, I live and work in the professional world and I have to present myself as such, which includes not discussing "impossible" scenarios involving the fact that we're all actually a singular omnipotent being which our individual expressions are capable of realizing by means of meditation and/or chemical assistance. In the other version of myself, I understand that's exactly the case lol. I remember when I first became aware, I felt the strong need to spread the word. But then I quickly realized how wrong that can go, so I created this split in myself. Though after all this time, and watching ignorance continue to grow and the world become increasingly unbalanced, I can't say with certainty what the right choice would be in terms of whether to communicate it to others. If you're pretty advanced in your understanding and you're tactful in your speech, perhaps it's not the worst thing in the world to tip the scales in others towards understanding the actual state of things. But if you're clumsy and blunt, and you barely have a grasp on the situation as it is, then most things relating to spirituality may be better left unsaid.

Right on, I'm in strong agreement. I think sober meditation that is literally continuous and non-stop is the only way to break through to significant change. Psychedelics are like booster fuel and they have their prominent place, but authentic skills in conscious awareness are a prerequisite.

Interesting, would this indicate cessation is synonymous with nirvikalpa samadhi and nirvana?

Right, exactly. It's probably a much more helpful, less confusing, and coherent way to make the mental connection and realize that all these seemingly separate traditions are just rediscovering the perennial philosophy.

Sure, I can try to lay out the gist of what I do. It's not strictly a single-pointed concentration practice. It's more like an active witness state of presence and being where I'm releasing resistance into the moment and continuously feeling the activation of the subtle energetic body. That's kind of a mouthful, but it's all done as a singular action, like how riding a bike is a non-conceptual kinesthetic skill that becomes mentally effortless despite the multiple types of coordination involved. I'm not reasoning my way into it, but rather I'm feeling my way into it. It's a different mode entirely that people seem prone to neglect and allow to atrophy from a lifetime of ignorance and disuse. The conceptual mind takes a back seat and feeling emerges to the forefront. The shift into what seems a superior state of existence is extremely palpable, and in the moment, it's obvious that this is how my life should be lived. The real trick is in noticing the way it's already ever-present, and that it just needs to be revealed by a process of subtraction rather than addition. To clarify on the "before, during, and after" statement regarding timing, the practice should ideally never stop, and it should eventually become the default state, also referred to as the "natural state" in spiritual teachings. It's just that I'm flawed like everyone else and my dedication can lapse, so I have to rekindle it now and then. Here's a video of Bruce Lee boiling it down to the essence. He definitely knew what's up regarding the realities of human spiritual potential if you've ever read his books. I also went into more depth in this other thread:

I agree, a dialogue with a practitioner who's actually reached that point would be awesome. That physiological rewiring aspect you mentioned, which seems to come about when a certain milestone in progress is reached, is of large interest to myself as well. Very interesting indeed. Here's a few videos where Shinzen Young goes into it:

I'm certainly not qualified yet to give a good report based on personal experience, but I remember Shinzen Young giving a good 'no BS' description of cessation, along with a methodology on how to get there.

Beautiful, it sounds like you're already experienced with the sensation, and you even understand the implications of what it can really do in terms of purification. I agree with your assessment. I haven't gotten anywhere near a point of mastery yet myself, but I believe doing so would be a true doorway to perceiving the eternal and infinite on a continuous basis, among other unspeakable benefits for life lived as a human. The sensation can also be used as a point of focus to transcend into samadhi. I believe that using a meditation object like this would ensure a more proper pathway into higher realms of consciousness, without leading you astray into less desirable and merely partial realizations. The origin of this energy can be intuited to be transdimensional, encompassing higher planes of existence and ultimately leading back strongly to the inexhaustible source of all things itself. It's like following a trail of bread crumbs back home, or using a guide rope while moving towards a destination in the dark, or whatever other metaphor makes the most sense. Here's a few more lines from "Practicing the Power of Now" relating to using the sensation as a tool for samadhi: "When you can feel the inner body clearly as a single field of energy, let go, if possible, of any visual image and focus exclusively on the feel­ing. If you can, also drop any mental image you may still have of the physical body. All that is left then is an all-encompassing sense of pres­ence or "beingness," and the inner body is felt to be without a boundary. Then take your attention even more deeply into that feeling. Become one with it. Merge with the energy field, so that there is no longer a perceived duality of the observer and the observed, of you and your body. The distinc­tion between inner and outer also dissolves now, so there is no inner body anymore. By going deeply into the body, you have tran­scended the body."

As far as methods to boost spiritual alignment and deepen your experience of psychedelics and life in general, I've found inner body awareness practices to be the most powerful. More specific than experiencing the feeling of your physical body, it's more so a continuous connection with the subtle feeling of your own vital energy. I've known about this practice for many years, but it wasn't until I had a bunch of 5meo experiences that I could suddenly feel the real thing even when sober, which was quite a revelation. The mere act of feeling it is itself transformative, and the deeper the sensation is perceived, the more powerful the transformation. The strength of this practice is in its simplicity. It's non-conceptual, experiential, and in the moment. You make the initial intention to feel it, and then from there you simply just continuously feel it by way of awareness rather than by mind. When done correctly, it's seemingly effortless, and it's more of an uncovering of what's been there all along than an attainment of something new. Consistency in practice at all times is the key to meaningful transformation and growth with the method. The sensation of energy is like a guiding light that can instantly point a chaotic and wayward trip in the proper direction towards a state of being and presence. And of course, it has the same effect when sober. Like anything else though, it gets more familiar and easy the more you do it. If you get too lax in your attention, the full sensation can be difficult to find again for a time. Here's some lines from Eckhart Tolle's book, "Practicing the Power of Now": "To stay present in everyday life, it helps to be deeply rooted within yourself; otherwise, the mind, which has incredible momentum, will drag you along like a wild river. It means to inhabit your body fully. To always have some of your attention in the inner energy field of your body. To feel the body from within, so to speak. Body awareness keeps you present. It anchors you in the Now. The body that you can see and touch cannot take you into Being. But that visible and tangible body is only an outer shell, or rather a limited and distorted perception of a deeper reality. In your natural state of connectedness with Being, this deeper reality can be felt every moment as the invisible inner body, the ani­mating presence within you. So to "inhabit the body" is to feel the body from within, to feel the life inside the body and thereby come to know that you are beyond the outer form. You are cut off from Being as long as your mind takes up all your attention. When this happens - and it happens continuously for most people - you are not in your body. The mind absorbs all your consciousness and transforms it into mind stuff. You cannot stop thinking. To become conscious of Being, you need to reclaim consciousness from the mind. This is one of the most essential tasks on your spiritual journey. It will free vast amounts of consciousness that previously had been trapped in useless and compulsive thinking. A very effective way of doing this is simply to take the focus of your attention away from thinking and direct it into the body, where Being can be felt in the first instance as the invisible energy field that gives life to what you perceive as the physical body."

lol this is for sure true in an absolute sense, but in a more practical way I'd recommend the writings of Vedanta Hinduism and Vajrayana Buddhism. Zen Buddhism is great for the direct approach, similar to the style Yimpa brings forward. It's certainly true that your path will ultimately come down to your own efforts, no matter what conceptual content you consume. Though I've found it helpful to have at least some amount of logical understanding. Adyashanti is probably my favorite modern teacher. Any book or video by him is inspiring and helpful. My favorite book of his is Emptiness Dancing. And this other particular book may be my favorite of all. It's an autobiography written by a heavily dedicated practitioner who is exceptional at conveying key parts of the spiritual process. The first 1/3 is about his time in a cult and it's much less helpful, but the rest of it is extremely valuable. You may need to have some preexisting knowledge and experience to properly absorb some of the pointers, but it's worth checking out either way. If I remember correctly, you have experience with 5meo, so I'm guessing you'll be able to relate.

This is purely theoretical, but I believe the two states are actually alternate manifestations of the same thing, with the difference in characteristics being tied to either having or not having the energetic hyperdimensional support of kundalini. It'd be like experiencing God with the lights off vs having the lights on. I could be mistaken, but that's where I'm at with my current understanding of the multiple-nirvikalpa samadhi phenomenon.

Really interesting stuff. This is what I was talking about in the thread below when I mentioned how the samadhi induced by 5meo can take on at least two different forms. I'm fairly certain that the one involving white light (which is likely a "visual" representation of kundalini energy fully activating) is the one that should be aimed for. That's backed up by the clear distinction which can be made between the beneficial quality of the two types of experiences. I've seen this same story play out over and over in the countless trip reports I've read, and my own experience backs it up as well. The energetic and explosive samadhi is unbelievably empowering, both during the experience and for quite a while afterward.