Ishanga

My prediction is that all of You that are into this will spend less time here, more time chatting with AI, hours a day, then one day will realize probably close to death bed that it was a waste of time, being so impressed with a talking machine the just regurgitates data in a polite way and can keep an interesting conversation going, but nothing has transformed in your life, you will not be able to go outside and just look at a flower in amazement, no it will have to completely intellectual and conversational, which means its all mind made up stuff and ideology.. Sad days indeed... I chatted for a little bit with the free version of chatgpt4, got bored with it after a half hour, so what, its just reciting what is in a book lol, i realized its just a program trying to appear social, and too keep me online chatting while life slips away... I just use it now for direct practical answers to questions, like safety of a particular vacation spot or reliable cars to look into buying, stuff where it can research it and find results fast...

The "Consciousness Doesn't Exist" argument, or that nothing exists, come from what I term the Top Down methodology, where whatever label you attach to it, Absolute, Consciousness, God, Infinity, Brahman, etc is all there IS, its really a philosophy of Denial, its actually very Stupid, since the fact is your reading this right now, someone started this thread and topic and ppl are discussing it disagreeing, agreeing using material things to do so, things that were invented in a non existing right now past, 50yrs ago this would not be happening, now it is, so it ridiculous to say nothing exist when we are using existing things just to talk/write about it via the instruments of our body and mind, via the information we have read or thru direct experience, how does direct experience happen if nothing exists lol! Just do me a favor, all you that say Nothing Exists, drop a brick on your foot, just do it and report back what happened! You won't do it because you know what will happen, but nothing exists lol!

Excuse me but can you rephrase this, I don't understand, it sounds like mumbo jumbo lol:)

1st most everyone is Slaves to others, they let others control how they feel within themselves, for eg one day you wake up in a good mood, enjoy breakfast and your morning routine, then go outside for a walk and someone cut you off in traffic, or bumps you or says something to You, your good mood is now gone, that is the worst form of slavery. 2nd we are slaves to the dollar and the eat, sleep, work do it all over again way of life, and even the wealthy, they need to be doing something, ultra busy creating this, starting that, to make more $$ or be famous, infamous doing it, because they just can't be still.. For me I want financial freedom, to do what I want, which may be nothing one day or something another day. 3rd we are slaves to technology, comforts and conveniences, just go into an airport or sit on a bus, everyone has their heads down zoned into their phones, it like mass hypnosis and everyone is asleep, especially not cool when you see parents walking their kids outside and doing the same, completely missing life and what it means to be alive. 4th we are slaves to our minds, mind is past/future memory/imagination orientated, but Life exists only Now, so when your strongly identified with Mind as most ppl are, they are not living where life is found, which is the biggest tragedy of all!

Sorry to have to say this too you but this sort of thinking is BS in my book, It nihilism plane and simple, nothing means nothing in your book if you believe in this crap, but if you actually believed that then you wouldn't be posting replies here or posting threads about nothing meaning anything, its hypocritical! There's absolutely a Body and Mind, its just that is not what we are, its what we have to use here on this plane of existence, plane and simple!

This is a two fold process. First You are right, the world in general sucks, and when someone tells You to stop watching or reading the news, that is them telling You to hide from it, which is one way to handle it but the shit is still happening. I see it everyday too, and I live in Canada, but its more like 1st world problems, inconveniences and stupidity all around with is sad in and of itself, and there are tragedies here too on a regular basis, hit and runs, drunk driving, shooting/stabbings, and what is not so good is the news focuses on this stuff to get ratings, that in and of itself is very sad, never mind what is happening in 3rd world situations which is absolutely horrific... I've dropped this idea of "Being the change I want to see in the world" BS, I can change all I want, nothing in society will change of that, mass Enlightenment is not going to happen for a very very long time if ever. But if I do change within myself to experience life as I want to experience it, then that is important for me and no one else, that is the only reason as to why to do it, like they say with addicts, if You want to change change for yourself and no one else, because as You said the World does not care what happens to any of us individually, your family may, you friends may, and if You have some fame they may but it doesn't mean anything in the larger scope of things, famous ppl have the same problems as You and I!

What is it like to fall into Deep Sleep? In a way what you described above is happening every night You go to sleep. but there is a way to be Aware when in deep sleep, this is a Sadhana in and of itself, its practice for Bodily Death, if You can be Aware of the moment btwn wakefulness and Sleep (this is not thinking about it or just mental alertness, that will keep you awake) then when Body Death happens and your Aware of this transition, then they say what your experience is in that place is very different. The Yogis explain it all but its best neither to believe or disbelieve, just live life to the fullest with full Awareness in place while Your here walking around in a Body with a Mind, we'll all experience what happens after that dies...

I feel bad for the younger gen, those in below 40 or so, as the world is going to be a very different place unfortunately in 40yrs, unless a major change in Consciousness happens within the next 5-10yrs, we will not have the same world we have now and have been having for the last 60yrs... Its good advice, but will you be able to take advantage of it when your going to need it?

Do both approaches, end up like Joe and Wim, both love to drink and get drunk and act like 18yrs when they are in their 50's and above.. These sorts of practices, and mindfulness as well, is like driving a car that has a standard transmission and you only drive it in 1st gear, you don't use reverse, you don't use the other 4 or 5 gears ever, and you drive like this for the rest of your driving career...

The Biggest problem is we get trapped in the words, the methods and the path itself. When I taught martial arts, I saw this big time, ppl didn't want to come there to learn how to fight or defend ones self, they came because they got interested in the training itself, the path of sort of how to get the skill set.. So if that is true, then the person leading this, inventor of the method, the Guru/Teacher per say becomes the expert, the ego attaches to this, but ego is false self, like your image in the mirror its a reflection of You, not You... So once the methods and teachings do their job, which is too transform your interior, inner experience, are You still a slave to situations outside of Yourself, or can You master Your response, are you generally Peaceful every moment of every day (or do You like misery?), that is how You know the methods and teachings are working for You.. Forget these stupid words like God, Infinity or Imaginary, these mean nothing if Your depressed and can't get out of bed in the morning, but when Your High on Life, then You conditioning kick in and you go to what You know, these stupid words... Just use this stuff like getting into a car and going to the store, You don't talk about it so much, You just use it and then forget about it...

This language, God, Duality, Infinity and such is ppl trying to sound "Spiritual" but are not, in simple terms it ego manifesting in one's writing and expression, the so called "Spiritual Ego syndrome". In reality there is just You, and the experiences You are having within Yourself, what is the quality of that Experience on a regular basis. When you are in deep sleep, where is this so called God? Nothing exists for YOU when in deep sleep, but your body is still doing its basic functioning, breathing is happening, heart is beating, blood flowing, energy is distributing, maintenance is happening as well, what is controlling all of this? Whatever it is, its the samething that is controlling everything else, what is controlling the spinning of the planet, how did is start in the first place and how did the conditions that allowed it too start come into existence? Explain that then You have Your answer, but for me its just a form of Grand Intelligence, that was created in a split second, it allows (not runs) everything to be as it is, and what makes you stay alive when Your passed out in sleep, If You can find out more of what this is, then Your living at a higher level of existence than most any other life form, with that You will control most everything that is happening within You, and that is the most important thing to happen in Your life because all there really is is what is happening within YOU!

Just imagine if no Spiritual Teaching, No Guru's or Leaders/Teachers, No Religion, No Jesus, Mohammed, ever existed, what would the world look like? Imo, the world today, although we have technology and science which gives us great comforts and conveniences, and allows us to supposedly live longer healthier lives, we are not doing so good! I would say the consciousness level of the planet is generally not very high, but there are probably more conscious ppl on the planet than ever before but the population is at its highest point so I think still the majority of ppl are still wrapped in their own little worlds, concerned about themselves or maybe another person they love or family members, but that is about it.. When I go out in public, which is everyday at my job, I see lots of things, I see public politeness but the exact opposite, I believe one can judge the consciousness level pretty well by observing their driving behaviour, if its bad then they don't give a shit about You or anyone else, if its good then they do, its that simple... I see about 50% of the ppl that are driving around don't give a shit about You or others, another 30% care but are in a rush in that particular situation, and the rest do care or care too much about themselves and safety and hold things up by being too cautious... If we look at all the Wars going on, the political arguments and inability to work together, the corruption in corporations, the plane old greed and lack of concern for others, the Criminal element in the world is nuts, drug addictions are sky high because ppl want to numb their pain, Depression/Anxiety/Mental Health at record lows, this is a direct sign of low consciousness, yeah I meet ppl that seem relatively nice but when push comes to shove are low consciousness level of Awareness.. So this imo is the way it is now, if no teachings and methods for empowering one's self were around, or where never developed to be passed down generation to generation then I think this planet would be a absolute disaster, worse than now, but ppl complain about Guru worship and following someone to closely to be objective, lol, some ppl are Devotee's which I never hear about around here, its all about taking drugs, getting a grand experience, finding "God" or "Infinity" then coming down and thinking You know it all, or nothing exists, everything is Imaginary, there is Only One Absolute nothing else exists, BS like this, once inawhile I will read a post where someone is actually talking about something important, which is the Quality of Your Experience, is it Joyful or Miserable, and methods on how to get that in your life, this comes from using Time Tested methods, so You can get there in this lifetime, not many or not at all in this lifetime, which I find is the most Valuable Information we can have on this earth today because the Earth, not just us Humans, are in big Trouble!

Firstly when it comes to Spirituality words really mean nothing, all the stuff being written here today or the last week, will be replaced with more and more threads, talking back and forth, words being misinterpreted, misused and mistaken! Spirituality is beyond all of these words, so whether You say it or I say it, or anyone says it, ppl can do what they want, if they need to learn a lesson they will, if they have learned the lessons and still want to be a Devotee, who are You to tell them otherwise!! One persons pedestal is Another persons God!

I don't want God, I don't know what that is, other than what ppl have said and the books written about God, which in the end are all but stories to me.. I want Bliss as my foundational Emotional state, I know that all Experience happens within Me, no where else, I know that if I stop all Stress Response, no matter what is happening (via the Accept all that is, Live Now and Respond rather than React methodology) that Peace can be my starting point in this venture, soon after Peace will become more intense and turn into Happiness, Joy then Bliss.. I know that my Body and MInd are just accumulations of sorts, Body via Food that I have eaten, Mind via the data input from my 5 senses, conditioning via my culture/society that I was brought up in and teachings, learning experiences(clinging to memory) and such, and if I can calm all of this down and stop identifying with Body/Mind, I can experience something else, what was there before all of this and have a more high quality experience of Life other than just working, eating, sleeping, sex, drugs, accumulating more experience and whatever else to only find it leave you empty looking outside to stimulate inside experiences and then dying...

It may be helpful for those in desperate need of spiritual guidance, but its not the real thing, it not a method to use or a real insight, just regurgitated from data collected and reorganized to appear attractive to ppl that like to talk about spirituality and stay in that intellectual trap of talking, asking questions, gettting answers, pondering then coming up with more questions and getting trapped in that loop...when will the actual realization happen within one that allows them a experience that transforms them for the rest of their lives? I like this forum for entertainment for the most part, it allows me to share on the spiritual level, I don't have that luxury with anyone else in my life, but in the end its a circle go round, real work has to be done by each of us, to find the truth of nature and realize it for ourselves, this addiction to computers, internet, looking outward for answers will only get worse with a relatable AI communicating back to you seeming to be a spiritual guide of sorts, its like having AI friends or partners, you begin to think this is real when its completely fake!

We have animal nature in us for sure I agree, I don't think we "are animals", we are Human we have no limits on how we can experience life, animals do, they can come close to us in certain ways (think tigers in captivity, they can seem pretty nice and emotionally attached to ppl, but can turn on a dime, their inborn instinct is much stronger than ours, our intellects/logical mind takes over from instinct and blocks it much more nowadays), but humans are capable of experiencing all of existence, living like a virtual God within themselves, no other life on this planet can do this... Your still in Survival mode "dude", whether its in the jungle or woods or the corporate board rooms in New York city, they all want more, more of whatever their mind is identified with, power, wealth, fire, wood shelter, women, sex,drugs etc... that is just survival in a tuxedo lol! We are capable of much more than this as human beings!

Religion is mostly about Belief nowadays generally speaking, some may have true experiences but it may be illusionary or such, who knows, all I can see of another is how they act and judge based on that, but I try to stay away from judging ppl as much as possible, its egoic in nature and creates division in my experience of life.. Spirituality is the science of directly experiencing the non physical aspect of what we are, my thoughts are non physical, my feelings and memories and such are non physical but they can manifest in physical ways. In Yoga we do not talk about God, and Infinity and such grandiose things, as they can all be imagined and Maya like, so we start from where we are at, I want a constant state of Peace as my foundation, then Bliss then Oneness/Completeness experience, its possible and can be achieved thru using of methods, again like martial arts training ( I use to teach marital arts),l one learns the training method, it physically produces a change in ones bodily response and ability to deliver attacks and defend, its the same with Yoga, you do the practices, learn the philosophy of its teachings, apply it for real in daily life (Live Now, Accept Now, Respond to Now absolutely), then go from there, maybe Enlightenment is more a possibility now for you, or its just a Happier, Healthier, more Intense and connected living Experience.. Some ppl in Spirituality have made it into a Religion for themselves, its more belief than anything, they have not used the methods or opened themselves up in a way that they are receptive to what is available to them via a non intellectual or belief sort of way, they think too much, put on shows of devotion and kindness too much but within themselves they are just a miserable as anyone else living a normal life..

Belief - Picked up information from sources other than Yourself (books, video's, news, papers, other ppl relating stories) related to some sort of ideology, religion, political group/system or situation happening somewhere.. Knowledge - something I know via having used/been there, in either in a physical way (think marital arts training, it first is a concept, then you train then use it), or mental way (I don't know math, I learn math, then I use math), or something I have learning via experience, like driving in Toronto, I know it is shit driving experience because I drive it everyday for years, I know what is it via my experience of it.. Direct Experience - usually associated with Spiritual Knowing and such, its a direct experience of Bliss, or Oneness/Completeness, indescribable, it can be described but the person/s listening will not relate to it unless they themselves have had a direct experience, think of a woman describing to a man what it is like to give birth, the man can relate to what she says, the pain of the labor, the pushing and such but he will never know the direct experience of having a baby and going thru the process of it, which is a different level of intensity of Experience..

Logic is great for surviving another day, its what has allowed us a Human Being to stay around as a species, since we are so weak in some many ways compared to other life forms, if we had no intellect/logic apparatus then we would not be here on this forum chatting BS. But survival is only one level of living experience, animals do this will little effort, its born into them instinctual, but we can go way beyond this experientially and otherwise...

Luck, Timing, Talent and of course some dedication and commitment as secondary elements.. Luck - Completely random events coming together, somehow being in the right place, meeting right ppl, doing right things all happening at once or in a short period of time.. Timing - certain situations are in place at certain times, so via that one may enter into that sort of thing at the right time so that they can execute a plan or offer a service or product! Talent - One must know their subject matter, be an expert or master at it, and be able to spontaneously create or take advantage of something coming into their life... Look at Stallone, came from almost nothing, yeah he had some small acting roles, but when that didn't pan out he thought about writing, and isolated himself, wrote some shit screen plays, but went out, saw the Ali fight, had an idea, wrote it down, offered it up, got the right opportunity, stuck to his guns, re wrote the script many times, and when the movie came out (they didn't think it would be offered up in big venues, maybe drive ins or even released), it made it big time (the timing was right, it was anti hero, very negative type films coming out at that time, nothing like Rocky was made or in anyone's mind to be made except Stallone), and here we are some 48yrs later and the guy is still in the public eye and has had lots of material and fame success and admiration from millions, beside the fact he has inspired billions of ppl...

I have to agree with Shodburrito, generally speaking first We are Pieces of Life, then We are Human Being, and expression/form of Life, then we are Male/Female, Masculine/Feminine, the male/female part is strictly for reasons of procreation and serving a survival purpose, the Masculine/Feminine part represents the Duality in nature, Masculine traits are represented as moving forward, action, building up, intensity and such, Feminine is settling down, calm, creativity, silence and such, now both sexes have all of these traits within them, but if you identify too much one way or the other you will miss out on many things, balance is needed, so that is the effort in Spirituality, to bring them both together and have a sense of Oneness and Completeness. The main problem today in society is we are way to identified with our Intellects, which separate and divide, intellect is like a sharp knife, it cuts things up to be able to mentally understand everything so we can survive another day, so when this can happen regarding any subject matter, it can be dissected to death, and made to be logical, but this is not the way to understand something, you have to be Inclusive, to include it and connect with it to understand something totally, not dissect it and divide it, so because of this Addiction, we see more differences in things than Commonalities and sameness, which in the end causes wars, suffering for all living things as we are seeing today in the world!

Everything is on levels, there is the Absolute, non physical reality some call Brahman, God, Grand Intelligence, its beyond subtly, what was there before the big bang (if that even happened at all), then things get more gross and come into existence, from Silence to Sound and everything in between, there not just Absolute and that's it, but Absolute is the foundation of it all, but we do have Creation, planets, Us and Earth as we perceive it, I think too many think one way or the other way to absolutely, one has to see it all, and how it all interplays with one another!

I kinda look at it this way via my own experience and researching, we are individuals, with individual body/minds, but this is not fundamentally what we are.. I like how Sadhguru says it, he says there is not Your Life and My Life, its just a matter of how much Life You have captured and are Aware of, akin to a bubble with air inside of it, Karma is the lining of the buddle, it allows the bubble to be formed, if no bubble the air just melds with the rest of the air in the atmosphere, so we are like the bubble but with minds and bodies, movement, thoughts and conditioning/karma in place, so in that way we are individual and have free will to decide to be a doctor, teacher, unemployed, happy, sad, healthy, sick, rich or poor, but some karma controls your life situation around you, how you respond to this is your choice, that is where the Free Will is, how I choose to respond, some are living in the poorest of places but are still happy, some are living in the most wealth places and are depressed or anxious, so that is where individual consciousness comes into play, Awareness of what we are allows a high intensity of Consciousness to be in our perception, at the sametime we are One with everything, connected to everything but have individuality on some level, both Oneness/Inclusiveness and Individuality/Duality are at play here simultaneously..

These Political Threads, perfect example of Intellect going out of Control, so much analysing so much division, assumption, data input and spitting it out to find some sort of answers, but Everyone comes back tomorrow with more questions and answers, one big loop of nothing! I live in Toronto, Canada, I don't like this city, but I'm free to do just about anything I want other than infringing or hurt another, we have massive problems in this city and country, but I can determine my own experience within somewhat so that I don't go crazy with it, except in traffic for some reason, was in Cancun recently on vacation, so what is there to complain about, other than Intellect go round and round in circles like here!

this is Acceptance in its absolute form, but again we are communicating, talking, exchanging ideas and concepts, this is not spirituality or the "real deal" just conceptualizing it, too many ppl take it as the real thing, I think that is what Your doing, your here on the forum communicating, as soon as You do that, and me after reading what You say its all concept, so that is where I am coming from, from that we can differ on things, or label things and catagorize things, so imo Your Top Down method, no problem with it if that is possible for someone, others there are problems with it as they can't even get out of bed in the morning never mind accepting anything as it is..nothing is absolutely right or wrong, but being Blissful is the basics and helps on this journey!