Ishanga

Everything in this world is a cult, this place is a cult, work and companies/corps are cults, schools and all organizations are cults, its just that some are not so healthy for us and some are, its this way for everything, its up to YOU to decide how it affects You.. Once You try to do something whether it is big or small, you'll create enemies... I've been involved with Martial Arts since 1988, my first instructor/Sifu I idolized him, studied every move he made, I eventually taught for him, met his parents, got into the inner circle, got to know the real person, deep down he's a good guy, but he had to do things to make things work, which cost me plenty.. I'm not long involved with him, but I don't regret my time with him, I learned allot (what to do and not do), the almost samething happened with my next instructor or coach, so these things happen, I don't have malice against any of them, or Sadhguru, he's doing what he has to do for his own reasons and motivations. Anyone can say anything, produce any sort of video and publicize it, Sadhguru will still go on doing his thing, he doesn't care, and more ppl will follow him, for sure some of them go overboard and worship him, from what I know he does not want this, he's stated many times he wants Undercover Yogi's, ppl out in the society living the life of a Yogi on the inside while performing normal everyday activities and family life... but he has a business to run, money has to come in to support Isha's activities, that is simply the way it is in the world if You want to do Big Things... Love him or Leave Him, no one cares really!

Mystics, Guru's/Teachers have to go with the times and the sort of People that are here today, and not act or behave like the ones in the past, they adapted to what sort of ppl were there back then...

Most of the above is due to Unconsciousness on how our system, how the Human mechanism works, which is the whole point of engaging in a Spiritual Path, so that the Potential within each of Us becomes Conscious too Us, when that happens one Realizes our natural state is Happiness, not suffering.. Most all suffering happening today is mental/emotional, not many are being tortured daily by someone, but most are self suffering, not accepting, living past/memory or future/imagination states not present in the moment or Accepting things as they are...

When he said "Wanting Happiness is rooted in Suffering". too me that translates as Suffering is the natural state of a Human Being... Its a natural Desire, not a Mental or Intellectual desire, since the Body and Mind work more effectively when one is in a Pleasant or Happy State, that means we are meant to be this way naturally...By Naturally I mean this is how our system works best, today ppl are self sabotaging themselves, they cause their own suffering for the most part due to a lack of Awareness of how this system works... Suffering or Pain causes the Body and Mind to be worse off, fight or flight, yes we need it too survive but sustained states of it lead to disease and ill health and no empowerment...

I disagree, it is more natural to want to be Happy than too Suffer, that is a certainty. We are capable of Experiences, if we weren't then none of this would matter, so because that is so Happiness (and above like Bliss, Ecstasy) are all Available to Us, as are their polar opposites, but as I said before, Happiness (not pleasure seeking, 5 senses satisfaction) is Empowering for Us, its heals our Bodies and Mind which are our basic tools to use while Embodied!!

Happiness is way more natural too Us than Suffering, I would say most of the Suffering today is Mental/Emotional, of course there are some that suffer a disease and pain from it or live in horrendous places (Gaza), but that is not the majority, most are Self Suffering because they don't know how the Mind or Emotions work... Just look at Yourself as a 4 or 5 yr old, or any kid, they are much more naturally happy than adults, if the basics are there, they play and have endless energy, but when we grow up in today's world its too mind/intellect orientated which is why we suffer so much... Happiness is not the goal of Spirituality, its just the foundation upon which the path is built upon...

Success, the way ppl view and understand it today (outside things produce an Experience within You), is not Happiness, like I said its ego gratification, its applause, it makes them feel special, but its temporary... Real True Happiness can be sustained... Ppl suffer Depression for years and years, daily feelings of dreed, sorrow, mental suffering, the opposite can happen too, ppl can be Happy, at Peace, Blissful for sustained periods of time, even Ecstasy, but with Ecstasy if You maintain it, You won't care about Family, Friends, Job, or anything of that sort, with Bliss You will still care and feel great and over long periods of time, our Bodies and Minds are meant to be this way, not depressed, sad, angry, fight/flight stress response daily!!

Happiness is not the same as Pleasure seeking or trying to satisfy the Senses, real Happiness always comes from within and has no need for a Stimuli, where as satisfying the senses which is what most ppl think of in regards to Happiness comes then goes... The most success, rich/wealthy ppl in today's world are mostly miserable, they use drugs or other addictions to satisfy their need to feel a sense of Happiness, but they will never get it.. Suffering can empower, but like I said most are not wise enough or have enough Clarity to use it to Empower themselves, they either try to get numb or distract themselves from the Suffering via drugs, alcohol, sex, etc,,, or just learn to live with it, but its a tragic life!

I think allot of what Happened with Osho and his group is he didn't have enough oversight of what was going on, he suffered some ill health and mayb was distracted by that, and he used controversy to spur on his popularity, but I don't think he was a nut case of that he head up some of the things that went on.. Sadhguru on the other hand has been at this for over 30+ yrs, yes ppl accusing him of most everything, but this is the way when You try to change/transform the world, and become very popular, you will for sure have allot of enemies, but his organization is pretty well respected, and it is flourishing more and more every year!

Spirituality is allot more than Thought lol.. Thought is not even a matter to be dealt with when with Serious Spiritual Masters or Leaders, they don't deal with it directly, its an after thought.. Karma is serious in Spirituality, it rules peoples lives and they don't even know what it means, if You don't deal with Your Karma then there is no chance of a Spiritual Awakening happening for You...

There is one equation that is ruling most all of Us, its simple, its the Gaining of Pleasure and the Avoidance of Pain... Its simple but a bit complex when You look at people's lives, for me for e.g. I work a Job I don't not like at all, and its getting worse everyday, I curse this job daily and think about quitting all the time, so that is a sort of Pain, but the idea of not having any income coming in, and being broke, bills pilling up and so forth is more Painful for Me, so in that aspect I'm too much on the Avoidance of Pain side of things.. Our Bodies and Mind (Emotional and Intellectual, Personality etc) work better when we are in Pleasant Moods, this is proven... So the Enemy is not Happiness or Pleasure, Suffering is the Enemy for sure, when You are in Suffering it completely disempowers You, I would sayy 99% of People today cannot deal with their Suffering and allow it too empower themselves to higher Potentials, very few can do this, but when You are Happy then Empowering Yourself is much easier, there is more Energy in the system, more Clarity and Mental/Physical Stability!!

Yes, but Realization of this, How does that happen if it is not already so within a Person? Obviously the majority of ppl are not Enlightened, otherwise this world would be a very different place, Lets Say Putin was Enlightened, would he be destroying Ukraine and ppl lives by the thousands?? I don't think so, so that is just one example, there are billions more. So we can debate the process all we want, some say the process of Karma, Life/Death/Life samsara cycle doesn't matter, some say it does, as with knowledge of this, things may transform in someone's life, but there are way where this knowing doesn't help, some ppl are set up differently (different karmic makeup), so that is why the millions of methods shared, ppl have to find the way for themselves but with a Guru or Mentor it goes much smoother, like using a GPS system in a unfamiliar place!!

Actually the masters of the past, the one's you quoted, also talk about these things, there is a sense of I before birth and after physical death. Karma is stored in all the bodies (food body, mental body, energy body, etheric/astral body, bliss body), when we physically die, the food and mental body dissipate, but the karma goes on in the energy/etheric/bliss body, that is where the karma is, there is no discretion in this realm, you are ruled by your karma and tendencies, if you were Blissful at the time of death, you will be Blissful beyond belief there too, if you suffering in death, you suffer there too... so there is a form of Consciousness persay, if you were a highly conscious person, you can choose which body to go into next, for most this is done unconsciously, so there is choice before birth and after death, its all a matter of Awareness, the more Aware You are, the more choice You have, until Enlightenment happens where this cycle ends for most...

Because there is no "I" regarding One Truth or Awareness, in Solipsism there is an "I" (I am the only one in existence) so its contrary... Its real simple, Existence/Reality goes from Subtle to Gross, we here on this planet, with Bodies, Minds, Physicality/Nature and everything that is form, is the Gross part, like layers on a Onion, what is on the outside is not what is inside.. We are not the Body or Mind or anything that is Accumulated over time via food, air etc., we are what was there before that, in that context we are all One and the Same, lets call it Life, a certain sort of Intelligence, the same as what was there before the Big Bang, non physicality in nature, no boundaries, complete and whole...Brahman in Hinduism!

The Human Being is the only Life on this planet that is able to Realize and Experience the Truth they are sharing in their own words, but its a matter of HOW. We are so Survival Based Identified, its built into our nervous system and cultural conditioning, that Karma is very strong otherwise we would not have Survived as a Species for very long, but we can go above it now more than ever since Survival is more guaranteed with today's tech than ever before, but we're still caught in Survival Mode mostly, everything is set up to have a Few Benefit while the rest of Us try to stay above Water... All the methods developed and created, and shared over the Millenias is just here for Us to realize this Truth, that we are not the Body/Mind, we are something else that is connected with Everything Else physical and non physical, what was there before the Big Bang...

Resistance to what Is, I would say is the key thing to eliminate, as resistance first causes bitterness which boils into Anger... So there are 2 keys things, first Accept all that is as it is, and live Now totally! By Accepting it is not that You want it this way or like it, You just Accept it.. You got into an Accident, that is bad enough, if You don't Accept it totally then Your adding mental/emotional stress to it, that disempowers You. Live Now Totally, Use past to become Wise, not wounded... Imagine and plan for the Future, but don't live there Emotionally...Be Aware that Now is where Life is, there is nothing You can do about NOW, other than Accept it as it is... This allows the next Moment to be any Possibility! If You don't accept Now then Your ruled by the Past/Memory, and not open to what Potential there is to have in Life... All this leads to Responding vs. Reacting, Responding is Conscious Action, Reacting is Unconscious Action, Consciousness allows the Potential within You to be explored and Experienced/Realized, Unconsciousness does the opposite, You live Low Potentiality Life, Survival Level only, reacting, Surviving, reacting repeating situations over and over again.

Happiness is a certain level of Intensity within a person that is positive for them, its the basic Quality to someone's life, compared to feeling Miserable and in Suffering of some sort.. Physically it is proven that when You are Happy, Your chemistry changes and the body is more healthy as is Your mind, the opposite is true when Your depressed, anxious, or angry/bitter about life... Peace imo is on a lower level of intensity than Happiness, Bliss is higher, Ecstasy is even higher than Bliss on the intensity scale but with Ecstasy You can't function within a Society, you won't care, with Bliss You still care about others, what is going on around You and Society as a whole...

Yes, knowing I am not the Body or Mind, having a space btwn what is You and Not You, birds eye view for sure allows Happiness to naturally arise.. Anti Happiness comes from too much identification with Your Mind or Intellect, which is a Survival tool, it dissects reality, chops it up into little pieces and allows You to comprehend enough to live another day, it is just in today's world living another day is not about fire, food, shelter, but about accumulation of more ppl, places and things, like friends, family, achievements, stuff, love, money etc, anytime You are all about Gathering things to make Yourself feel alive or happy, that is the same as looking for food, shelter or warmth, its the same consciousness level, Humans are able to live way above this level of Consciousness, when that happens, Happiness is natural for You!

I don't think what You describe above is common, the process of "letting go" which in other words means not letting the past/memories rule You, is not the case for most ppl, at least not from what I am observing and experiencing, most are hanging on the past/memories more so than ever, but I will say that what You shared is good advice and one of the first steps towards Enlightenment, Enlightenment itself is much more than letting go or living now, these I think are just tools, so that basically we are at Ease, Peace is our natural experience, from that stable platform we can rise up to more intensity in our Emotions, Physicality and Energetically, so that what we have seen in our previous generations via creativity, invention, innovation and such look pale in comparison.. The society conditions us to hold on to the past and try to relive it over and over again, that way the money keeps rolling in and the power players stay on top!

Its really simple, You all talk or write too much! Enlightenment yes is a word we use to describe a certain state of Potential, Positive Potential that is, and from I have witnessed here on this forum, most all of You are not even close to any sort of that Potential. The constant Questioning, the constant Asking, the Constant Replying, the Constant Debating over and over again says allot.. Silence is the key, I am still learning this skill but at the least I am learning. Why do I care? Because this place is supposed to a bit more Enlightened that most other places, and it is not, and my goal other that my own Enlightenment is too see others do the same so that this place we call Earth is better overall for all that are living here, Human or otherwise! Yes this place possesses some information, data, words upon words, concepts over concepts, that may help a beginner, but the ones that post here the most are not Beginners, they are supposed to be way beyond that but its obvious that You are not, if You have to continually debate and explain the same things over and over again, or continue to share You unique concepts with the world (they are not unique in any way by the way! that is just Your Ego by which Your supposed to over with by now).. Enlightened People Laugh more, watch more, listen more than anyone does around Here, so just a heads up, if You think this place is an Enlightened Place it is not.. This is not too say that Leo has nothing to offer, I would say he is for sure more Enlightened that 99.9999999% of everyone that posts here on a regular basis, but he needs you guys to feed off of in many ways, that's okay as we need to support many things other than our own Enlightenment, at least he knows what is what, which is far from what I can say for others here...

Questioning is okay up to a point, but when its a constant exercise then that means Your too intellectually identified, which will lead You further away from Truth and Reality...

Incorrect, this place is supposed to be more than the normal forum, for sure it is not, yes it has value as all forums have value, but I would say it has not lived up to what it is meant for!

Your one of the worst offenders with Your 14K+ posts! Its all Ego gratification for You that is a certainty... Spiritually Your way off base with this no one here, nothing happening bla bla, its like talking to a person that is totally insane, no point in doing that!

@James123 I respect everyone's Journey, Perspective and Approach, I may not agree with it but there is a respect on my part, since everything and everyone, every opinion, belief, experience, perspective shared, concept described etc. is an expression of a Potential and Possibility, who am I to say it should not be so, but Enlightenment is above all of this, its the concept of being the highest Potential for a Human Life, which on this planet is the highest form of Life in how we can Experience it, live it, be creative thru it, perceive it and so forth.. All this talking, sharing, and such its good up to a point, after that point it gets to be disempowering, and addictive and leads one further away from Truth and Enlightenment, I know, I've gone thru this sort of thing on other forums concerning other topics, but Enlightenment/Spirituality is the highest Pursuit anyone can take up, we have a greater responsibility to ourselves and all Life in this manner than any other activity or pursuit we can engage in, so the standard is higher here or should Be!

Yes, as Awakening is the beginning of new Potentials within You and all of Us, Potentials that are Life Enhancing and Empowering, if You know of it and ignore it then Your not accessing this Potential and that is Tragedy, which is the main problem in the world today, very few are accessing any sort of Potential within them that is beyond basic Survival Instinct and Accumulation of Ppl, places and things which in essence is destroying the Earth as we know it.. The more that try to access this Potential is beneficial to all Life on the planet and sure makes life more Enjoyable!