Tenebroso

What if you accept yourself and women still are not attracted to you? Is there really someone for everyone?

Insightful post. What are the first steps to becoming a man who understand women? How do you find who you are compatible with? If you have never attracted anyone, wouldn't it be difficult to gain the experience to understand different types of women and those who would be compatible with you? Seems like a catch 22, you need experience to get experience kind of thing.

Excellent point, I find something sinister in the drive to make the simple desire to be in a romantic relationship something toxic and wrong.

In theory relationships should trigger growth but judging by the way people talk about relationships, it seems that there is a lot of stagnation i.e People not learning from their mistakes, knowingly entering into destructive situationships repeatedly, using others etc I have never been in a relationship, so I am writing from an outsiders perspective but the people will very active love lives at least in my generation, don't seem to be anymore emotionally or psychologically developed. I think you have to make an active choice to grow, being in any particular situation won't make you grow automatically just because. This is just my limited understanding.

I am 6'4 and have never really had a love life. I don't want to dismiss your experiences but I can tell you there is no automatic romantic free pass for tall men, a lot of other things still have to line up in your favour. Attraction is mysterious and paradoxical.

I am basically in the same place as you, wondering what is wrong with me and what I am doing wrong? I don't have the answers. I am trying to remain positive and taking each day at a time but it does feel sometimes like you are on the outside looking in to what seems normal and natural for others. Last night I got a bit depressed thinking about a random memory from 10 years ago of a young couple kissing in front of me on a train and wondering what I did wrong to never experience young love. Maybe there is a luck component, sometime I get fatalistic and think maybe it's not meant to be but that kills your overall drive in life, so you have to persist in taking action and finding even small things to be positive about.

I have read the book in full, I was introduced to it young. It kills your idealism about romance and love, which can be difficult to accept. I believe the author Esther Vilar received death threats for writing it. How would society look if every young man received this information at 18, I don't think it would be pretty. I think when men and women are exposed to each other's true nature as they increasingly are today, gender relations become very strained.

OK, I have to concede you are right. I have to turn over a new leaf, I have received similar advice in other places. Start from zero, look forward, let go of the old story and let go of the preconceived notions of female behaviour. Non-attachment. Focus on my internal goals/intentions/visions, while not reacting to the external world unless it matches my desired outcome. Do you believe in destiny/fate or that we actively create our reality, or even a combination of both. So if you really clean up your belief system, silence the inner critic and are clear on your goals, will the results eventually reflect that in the external world or is even thinking about the results counterproductive? "Pretend you are just starting out fresh and have no beliefs about women" I really like this, a return to innocent curiosity. Thanks

I like this

Interesting point. So how do you close the negative feedback loop? How do you get your ego to work for you?

@Buck Edwards How should a man show interest without being needy?

@Emotionalmosquito Exactly. No sympathy for these types, they deserve everything they get.

@Bittu Guys like you who enable women by pandering to them ironically cause more damage. If women were more honest about their supposed 'female intuition', nurturing ability and emotional intelligence they would make less decisions that endanger their own physical safety. They wouldn't try to change men who have no business being changed and they would observe men and potential suitors more carefully, instead of relying on an intuition that clearly doesn't work well or exist, considering the kind of men they endlessly complain about but continue to entertain. I can tell by your response you have embraced the identity of being one of the good non-toxic men. Whatever bro, the world is not sunshine and rainbows, truths might be uncomfortable. Take the condescension elsewhere, you are not more virtuous or moral than me, understood.

Attunement, empathy, playfulness, cheerfulness, listening skills etc are all great qualities but they have nothing to do with attraction. Negative, psychopathic, abusive men have zero issues attracting all kinds of women. It is clear there is no correlation between being a good person and getting laid. As we speak a racists, misogynistic killer Wade Wilson, who murdered two women has received 4000 love letters. Society does not want to deal with the dark truth of what really triggers raw female attraction. Most men keep their wall up due to experience. If you are an adult man and have no experience of emotional safety why wouldn't you self-protect. It is a myth that women are more nurturing and emotionally intelligent than men. The overwhelming experience for men is that you can't trust women with your feelings.

I don't care if it's unpopular but here is a lot of dishonesty in this thread. Society would look very different if actions matched words.

While I am on the side of limiting or removing porn from your life completely, I am not a fan of Dr. Trish Leigh's work. A woman like her is so out of touch with the average male experience, she lives on a different planet.

Thanks dude. One of the most helpful pieces of insights I have received on this forum.

You are a french lesbian living an hour away from Paris?

I think it's social and cultural. The natural gap between men and women in terms of capacity to nurture is smaller than is believed. When women are really free it is clear they are not that nurturing nor do they possess much emotional intelligence as they would like everyone to believe. If woman are so nurturing and emotionally intelligent then why have the raised multiple generations of the most anxious, low self esteem young people ever.

I stand by what I have written and observed. How can I ignore what I observe when I have slept with zero women and other men my age have slept with 300+. Then to make it worse I am the one treated like a toxic, abusive man. How can I not come to the conclusions that I have come to. When I was at university, I wasn't on internet forums, blogs, reddit etc. I did all the things you are supposed to do; join sports and social clubs, party etc. I was meditating every day, working out and asking women out. It all amounted to nothing and I saw all the things I point out there live and in person before I read about them or watched a video. However, I will watch the videos you recommend and I will re-watch the ones you recommended in response to other post I made in the past. I don't care about attracting women anymore, it's clear to me that I was just not mean to be desirable. However, I do want to move forward with my life in other ways and stop focusing on this stuff.

Need to be able to get sex to get a relationship. Relationship qualities don't come into the picture until a woman is sufficiently attracted to you. In 2024 a late millennial/gen z woman in a major city is not choosing a guy because he has relationship qualities. She is having sex with attractive high status men who have unlimited options and hoping that he eventually commits to her.

My observation is that the more destructive and machiavellian you are as a man, the better you do with women. All types of women, in other words; morality, kindness, emotional intelligence etc have almost nothing to do with what will attract a woman to a man. Women hate nice guys so much that they have constructed an elaborate myth that nice guys are the real problem. What they are actually doing is making a post hoc rationalization to justify their repulsion to unattractive, sensitive men. Since woman must always have the moral high ground they have to vilify unattractive men. It is actually a form of dehumanization. High status/fame, physical attractiveness (women contrary to popular belief care more about looks) and aggression. These are the most important things in attracting women. Your inner self and all that other stuff you are sold don't mean anything. It's not about age (see The Tinder Swindler), it's not about upbringing (women from stable backgrounds date drug dealers and murderers too). Women today basically admit all of this without explicitly saying it. There are dating subreddits with millions of users. Everyday women ask some variation of "how can I get my fuckbuddy to commit to me?", "why am I only attracted to assholes?" while most questions from men are just about how to get a date and not be invisible. So who are these toxic men breaking hearts, abusing etc and where is that famous intuition that can read the true character of any man, interestingly doesn't function with a minority of men. There was a band in the uk where the lead singer was convicted and jailed for sexually abusing a minor. What do grown, adult women do? they offer themselves to him to be abused. Wade Wilson murders two women and then receives 4000 letters. A man should be a good, nice man for himself and his own self respect and integrity if he wishes. However, you can't blame men for choosing a more amoral path. Human behaviour and interaction is a game of incentives and there is zero incentive to be a good man when the mask of true female nature is revealed. The thing is I wouldn't want to live in some traditional past where gender relations were supposedly better, it was an artificial blip due to unique socio-economic pressures after the industrial revolution. What we see today is who women have always been.

@Schizophonia Interested to hear more on aura's. I feel it's an underrated aspect of connection between people. How do you read another person's aura and how do you become a aware of your own? Beyond that you seem to have a healthy approach. Can you expound on being fulfilled at the base?

@Keryo Koffa I increasingly think it's the shame that's more draining. The shame of carnal desire, the body and the senses. Why would we have such desires without the right to enjoy them. It's conundrum but the most secure people I know also happen to be very unapologetically sexual. I think No Fap works in very specific conditions and lifestyles.

I find meditation to have a bigger influence on my vibe and energy than no fap. The problem with No Fap is that if you are still young, that sexual energy has to be directed into something either spirituality, art or some sort of social cause. That energy with no specific outlet can make you even more creepy and desperate. Maybe the best way would be to find your passion or purpose while still fapping, then slowly let go of the porn. Just going cold turkey without a sense of direction can I said warp your energy even more.