Tenebroso

@NoSelfSelf There is a smugness to your answers on here, it's quite pathetic. People take different paths to growing, it doesn't mean you have to mock them. I am sure there are parts of your life where your are clueless and insecure.

What if you approach many women and get rejected every time? For the compound of momentum to develop somebody has to say yes at some point.

I agree that women don't necessarily have it easier, it's just different problems. I guess the core issue for men is overcoming the hurdle of being invisible, just being seen is an achievement for the average man but for most women that is trivial. I guess women are looking for deep compatibility, the needle in the haystack that inspires her and makes her feel alive. So it feels like for most you have to focus on quantity and just shoot your shot until a woman takes a chance on you while, women are focused on quality, filtering for the best guy they can get. Most men don't seem to have whatever sparks that deep attraction in women, so I assume that must feel very disappointing. One thing I hear often is women wishing they were lesbian, being attracted to men seems to be burden while I have read of men who wish they could turn off their sex drive since it's so difficult to be a guy gets his needs met, I have had those feeling myself.

Of course, I don't deny. A good example if you follow Tik Tok is The West Elm Caleb situation. A guy in New York who went viral for sleeping with multiple women and leading them on, all these girls thought they were the only one until they started sharing notes and realized they were all sleeping with the same man. So all these women were having sex with one guy and many of the guys who they ignored were sleeping with nobody.

One man might be involved with many women on and off. So it follows, if every woman is having sex it doesn't mean every man is.

My experience in starting conversations with women is either a blank gaze that says stop talking to me or just overt disgust that I had the audacity to start a conversation. I am not sure proximity is as important as it used to be in 2024, it seems social media is more important. A girl I grew up with and is part of my social circle is currently dating a well known rapper. She is not an instagram model, posting revealing pictures or anything yet a rapper DM'ed her and she has spent the last year travelling the world with this rapper who has spoken in interviews about sleeping with thousands of women and having orgies. How am I meant to compete with that? When the women my age, in my proximity can just be plucked from obscurity at any time by the most high status men. It seems if you are not very attractive being incredibly famous is the only way to not be invisible.

@Chadders Your point is simple but perceptive. I think you are correct, there is seemingly a self-esteem crisis and that 'third' approach to attraction has become very important. I am imagine people with strong self image, little to no trauma, stable attachment find each other and pair off quietly.

What makes respect mature and disrespect immature? Explain it like I am 5, I am not seeing the connection.

The message on social media seems to be not to approach, it seems women want to be left alone unless you can read her mind and know the exact day, time and moment she is receptive to meeting anyone. I think women today actually initiate contact with the most popular men through social media. Male content creators and athletes have spoken about becoming well known and women just offering themselves to them in very direct way. It seems high status undercuts the assumed more patient, dynamic nature of female attraction. While a woman might not consciously want to be a side-piece or a harem member, she still might be drawn to a certain guy who other women are competing for. She might feel she is settling for the guy she does end up with, one thing I see increasingly expressed is the desire to be single instead of settling, if they can't get the exact dream guy they want. So if you are not one of the guys, either you are hoping to be given a chance by someone who feels she is settling for you or the women in your league would rather stay alone than give you a chance.

Would you tell your son to wait, while women go through their trial and error phase with bad boys? I don't see how this is an inspiring or encouraging message to young men. On social media women who have moved past this phase and are beginning to date men who are emotionally available, kind and stable express frustration at not feeling the spark of attraction with these men. Is being warm-hearted, stable, trustworthy really actually attractive in itself or are these just qualities women wished the men they are already attracted to have. I don't think the problems of modern dating is a shortage of men with these qualities.

It seems in an unrestricted society, this is the way it is.

I like this. I am a Londoner too, I know how intimidating the women can be here. I need to be braver and take bold steps. Thanks for this inspiration.

While there are things to admire in aBill Gates and Obama respectively I wouldn't want their relationships. From everything I have seen, they seem to be more relationships of convenience. Basically, from everything I am observing and reading about the dynamic between men and women, it seems better to be the immoral fuckboy who a woman knows is not good for her but she can't can't get enough of because he meets her needs. Being the guy that a woman has to train herself to like after she is done with bad boys does not sound appealing to me, it just makes me want to embody the bad boy. I grew up in a tough city but went to very good schools. I am acquainted with drug dealers, gangsters but also people professionals (doctors, teachers, lawyers etc) and it is striking to me that the more destructive a person is the less issues they have attracting women of any class.

Considering what you have written here, are attractive men likely to be chameleons able to shape shift into whatever the woman who crosses their path needs in the moment or are they more likely to have a more static identity and sense of self?

The 50/50 ration of men and women does not mean attraction will be equally distributed. Clearly some men die alone never touching a woman, while others sleep with thousands of women. Everywhere I have been in life; school, jobs, different mixed social circles etc there isn't a woman for every man. Some men seem to have way more broad appeal, some men have a niche people and some seemingly none. It seems you find the idea that women heavily favour certain men threatening to the idea of female individuality but I think two things can be true at once. Each individual woman has her own type and that can shift depending on where she is in her life but this does not contradict the fact that some men seemingly having something whether it is looks, status, charm that supersedes the mysterious, abstract nature of female attraction and allows to experience a level of sexual/romantic abundance many men can't fathom.

My concern is that it sounds like women have to make themselves attracted to one group of men, while they can't help but fall for the more destructive men. On social media women speak of knowing it will end badly with the fuckboy but they can't help being attracted, while struggling to have that primal attraction for the guys who seem more compatible on paper. This does not seem encouraging.

It is true you just find it uncomfortable. Serial Killers, Murderers, Abusers, Drug Dealers and worse have wives, girlfriends and admirers. Just because you don't like it does not make it true. You have no serious retort to this.

I think dating apps are the scapegoat. The guys who have no problem attracting women in real life are the same guys getting all the attention online. Dating apps just unmask the primal firmware behind human mating dynamics. The most physically attractive people get all the attention, status and wealth matter but all the the more subtle qualities that people think they are attracted to; kindness, emotional intelligence, patience.....don't matter if you can't past the hurdle of attraction in the first place.

Nothing to do with vibe. You either look good to a woman or you don't, there are 'bad vibe' men who have zero issues attracting women. It's not about good and bad.

Masculinity is doing as you please unapologetically while taking complete responsibility. In my eyes, this has little to nothing to do with being a good person, protecting, morality. If a man's honest instincts lead him to honestly being a good man without looking for approval great but I don't believe there is some kind of positive morality inherent to true masculinity. This is uncomfortable for society to accept.

Does this work for the everyday regular guy? Of course the handsome man in a Hollywood costume drama is going to be alluring to anyone he is staring at.

Men watch more porn but Women apparently watch more hardcore stuff. I think Women are potentially more sexual but they find a small minority of men attractive, so don't always have the desired outlet for their sexuality.

This could be a post in itself, applying Reality Transurfing to dating. Maybe excess potentials explains why men less concerned with being a good man or doing the right thing do so well with women. The lack of importance but it's hard to fake that kind of non neediness.

@Emerald Thanks for your detailed, patient responses to me, you have been very helpful.

Wasn't quite sure how to respond to this. This is very kind, thanks for taking the time to respond in this manner despite my negativity. The bolded especially resonates, I do need to learn to trust and see with my heart.