Tenebroso

Your argument that women are becoming conscious and filtering these men out does not stand up to scrutiny; anti-social, emotionally unintelligent, misogynistic men attract women if they are physically attractive and have some status it's that simple. My observation is that the worst a man is the less issues he has with women. Narcissistic, emotionally unavailable, cold men are not the ones struggling from the male loneliness crisis. Every day on social media women expose toxic, abusive men and what is the result? more attention for those men, they are never ostracized so is toxicity really the issue? Society is unwilling to face the truth about female attractions, women care way more about looks just as much as men if not more judging by their actions and care a lot about status and power to the extent that they are willing to overlook red flags if men have these qualities. You seem to have cause and effect mixed up. The misogynistic propaganda didn't create these men or come out of thin air. Sensitive young men who genuinely want to connect with women, experienced rejection after rejection, compared notes and realized society was being dishonest with them and these influences took advantage. Now I agree with you that the Alpha Male influencers are causing harm, I dislike them but the advice from the other end of the spectrum is actually what we were raised with. If you were born after 1990 in a western country the social conditioning you received was much closer to the advice you give out than any Alpha influence dudes who only appeared on the scene about 15 years ago. The core issue is young men have eyes, ears and experiences and their experiences does not match what we are being told. I am basically the opposite of a stoic, cold, mean, alpha dude. I am; sensitive, emotional, artsy, have more female friends than male yet men like myself struggle only to be told it's because of propaganda we are receiving when in reality most of these influencers appeared on the scene when I was already in my 20s and I had by that point already a long list of rejections and traumatic experiences with women. I think part of the issue is that for the vast majority of women having a love life or being able to just get a date is take for granted. It's just a given, so women can't fathom the idea of not being able to attract the opposite sex so vilify these type of men without knowing the full story or questioning their biases. You seem very confident in your view that men are struggling because we are adopting a form of masculinity that is repellant but I would ask you to reconsider your views and think about it. Most of these problems predate reddit, forums and red pill podcasters/influencers. The manosphere and red pill is a symptom not a cause.

We are just returning back to a more natural order. When women are free then we have the world we have now. Women naturally find most men repulsive and not fit for mating or even just dating. They had to deal with men in the past due to social and economic pressures but those restrictions are gone at least in the west and they are not coming back. The solution is not to force women into the roles of the past through laws and coercion. We should teach young boys not to expect to have a family or love life growing up and we should legalize polygamy so that the attractive, high status men can marry all the women they are involved with. Women form harems around attractive men when they are free, we should let them do it. This is what they want. Women have the power in the west; situationships, friends with benefits, hookup culture, one night stands exist because women when they are free actively choose to engage in these activities.

If women like you they will come to you. My attractive friends never have to approach women, women just hover and appear in their lives without them having to do anything but exist.

@TheGod I will say and do as I please. I have approached women, there you go making assumptions not very enlightened.

Rejection is the norm. Women take great pleasure in rejecting men, I wonder if the reward centers in a woman's brain light up when she gets to reject an unworthy man.

You are either attractive or not, burying your head in the sand helps nothing. I find it interesting how this advice is never given to women. You never hear people tell women "get over the imbalances, unfairness, injustices in society" or any other demographic but the advice for men is just to suck it up and supposedly issues will resolve themselves and relationships will unfold. People like you don't say this from a genuine place of concern or care but to shut down conversation and silence men struggling with dating. Men who struggle with dating make you uncomfortable because they unmask the true shallow nature of society. In reality buzzwords such as true value, being special and unique count for little. In 2025 love is going to come to you because you are some detached, enlightened person who has everything figured out. The manosphere is mostly trash and full of grifters but people like you OP are trash in another way, due to your intellectual and spiritual arrogance, an unearned condescension. You don't have the answers.

You have to have something you are so passionate about that the stupidity of other people does not even register. I am so focused on writing a novel that someone could spit in my face and say something racist and I would just step aside. You have to think of the bigger picture.

You are just discovering as an adult man that looks and money matter?

The kind of man, women claim to dislike yet he has an endless supply of women.

I am going of what women themselves say, it's being written about in mainstream articles. There are female dating coaches teaching women how to signal they are receptive. What reason would I have to make this up?

This also matches what I have observed. Women are not very receptive to approaching today because they find most men creepy. The more confident women are increasingly taking the initiative because women today have very specific types. My attractive male friends are constantly being approached online and in real life.

So you think naturally women want to be pursued and that is what is best but due to traumatic childhoods and emotional damage they get into these cycles where they are chasing, which never ends well. Correct me if I am wrong. A question I have is can a man attract any women who is emotionally healthy through pursuing or is it completely dependent on being her specific type? The problem is that from what I see is that many women have the same type. Even if they are actually healthy and want to be pursued. There is a lot of talk across social media about men not approaching women anymore or initiating contact but the overwhelming experience from the male side is that women DO want to be approached and pursued but by a very specific type of man.

@Emerald The issue is that in 2025 women are not attracted to the men who would see them as a prize, despite claiming that is what they want. I think the problem is that women want the men they see as the prize to adore them back and be their Prince Charming but these men have so many options that they have no incentive to prioritize one woman over another.

This is what women want even if it contradicts what they claim they want. If you observe the actions of women unrestricted they naturally choose to become a part of harems for the most powerful men.

The most attractive men, high status men are the prize, they have the most power and leverage because they are so scarce. After that it is all women pretty much then the mass of average and below average men, living lives of quiet desperation.

If women don't come to you, you are not attractive. My friends who get laid the most have to very little work, Women send them DMs and initiate the interactions while the rest of us peasants have to scramble for the slightest chance of being acknowledged. Tragic.

Vatican City

@Raze Your spot on but any scrutiny of women's role in the current dating dynamic will be met with hostility.

There are no red flags if you are a tall, white man. They cannot be creeps. Standards for behaviour exist only for men outside that exclusive demographic of men. It's the harsh truth. He could walk up to women of all races naked with Nazi tattoos and still find women receptive. Women don't like to acknowledge this because it contradicts the "women are wonderful, intuitive, virtuous goddesses" propaganda, which anyone can see is blatantly fraudulent when we just observe the actions of women and what they choose juxtaposed to what they say they like.

Women's standards and boundaries go out of the window for attractive, high status men. These men live in a different world, they can demand anything and the women will accept it because if she doesn't there are other women waiting to take her place.

I am in the exact same position. You are going to get a lot of "just go out there" advice from people who most likely take having a sex life for granted. They don't understand the barriers facing unattractive, shy men, the "fuck off" glares women give you before you even open your mouth to initiate a conversation. I have come to the conclusion that life is not fair and some of us were never meant to have those experiences.

You don't need to have your shit together to get laid. You just need to be sexy enough at the right time to a particular women. Some men are luckier than others and some men will never be sexy enough for any woman.

@Princess Arabia Ok well let's agree to disagree. I will stop responding to your post for the foreseeable future, I don't enjoy antagonizing people when it is not my intention at all.

Toxic and healthy is a false dichotomy.

The bolded. I felt all of these had a harsh, aggressive tone. There seems to be an emphasis on disgust. I feel this is insensitive to trauma and how it influences a person perception. Everybody is dealing with something maybe not everyone is as open about me but it is not a reason to be dismissive. I do post on other sections not anywhere as much on this section but I feel that is necessary. I am allowed to have a particular interest in a specific section. Maybe it's an area where I need to develop and work things out. A more immature young man would take this comment and run away to some forum or discord server where there is no one to challenge his views. I don't like echo chambers, I like being challenged but it should be respectful. I made the point about spirituality because often the response on many topics comes down to essentially everything is about love, self awareness and doing the work but on the topic of dating dynamics specifically the tone is completely different. It feels as if I don't agree exactly with what is said about women I am on the verge of being insulted. Yes it's not exactly what you said here but an overall pattern which implies that I should know my place.